8 ms·

Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks

264 points by timsher 12y ago

enscr 12y ago
I think all laptops can extend the battery life-span significantly with just smarter software. I manually cycle my laptop battery regularly & do not keep it charged at 100% all the time even if the laptop is plugged in (some Thinkpad models allow that). Even after 2 years of daily use, I've got greater than 80-90% battery capacity left.
- evan_ 12y ago
  I do absolutely nothing special to try to prolong the lifetime of my 3-year-old MacBook Pro battery and it's still got 92% capacity.
  - enscr 12y ago
    My experience with Windows laptops is totally different
pg 12y ago
Here is a classic example of a startup launching an Altair Basic with the potential produce a Microsoft-like giant. Incidentally, I think this is also the first father/son team we've funded.
- _jss 12y ago
  What is the strategy for when Apple disallows sales based on the Magsafe adapter? This happened to HyperMac (now HyperJuice) batteries back in 2011. I still have mine, ordered before Apple lawyers went after them. It's wonderful. Edit: Adding link to Wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with-cable-chopping-magic-magsafe-adapter/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with...
  - MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
    I have some HyperJuice units that I made cables for. It works OK, but is definitely clunky. I think it could be done in a better way, but it can only be a hack with Apple defending the walls of their garden so militantly. For this reason I really hope GBatteries have a license to use the connector, and that they build in some cable management similar to what's on the magsafe unit, so the cable can be coiled neatly. My other feedback is that having a built-in AC adapter would be so very useful. Look at the HyperJuice plug [1]. It's got the AC prongs that just slide out -- no separate wall wart, and no micro-usb cable. People that have only Apple devices won't have many micro USB cables around. It would also prevent someone from plugging the USB cable into their laptop while it's being powered by the external battery. :\ 1: http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ (note that this model HyperJuice will not charge a laptop)
  - toyg 12y ago
    I think that it's not about the BatteryBox product per se, but about some technology inside which is supposed to reduce long-term capacity loss. The box itself is basically a demo to sell or license the actual tech to OEMs.
    - XorNot 12y ago
      This is straight up not possible. Lithium-ion batteries degrade irreversibly as they're used - the only way to reduce capacity loss is to reduce the depth-of-discharge: add more cells, and discharge them less per cycle. Unless they're fiddling with the actual chemistry of the cells, it's unlikely they've changed anything.
      - jonknee 12y ago
        Did you read the linked article? > Batteries are typically charged and discharged through a constant stream of power, which causes problems like SEI layer formation that causes the battery to degrade over time. The BatteryOS system, by contrast, takes an active role in managing what’s happening inside a Li-ion battery, which not only lengthens the life of the battery, but also gives it the ability to store 10 percent to 40 percent more power. Obviously the proof is in the results, but that's what they're claiming.
- marvin 12y ago
  Battery storage will be absolutely huge in a few years. There is so much potential that has gone unexplored, since batteries have traditionally been heavy, low-capacity and short-lived. At least some of the people in this space who are in the right place at the right time today, are going to win big. Someone will have to build all these batteries. Everything from cars to renewable energy to light aircraft is going to be battery-powered in the future. It will be very exciting to see what happens in this space, and I'm bummed that I'm largely unable to invest in this space myself. Best of luck to the YC-backed companies :) (Case in point: Tesla Motors have announced that they're building the world's largest Li-ion battery factory, to the tune of $5 billion).
  - tedsanders 12y ago
    I think it's very unlikely that airplanes will be battery powered in the medium-term future. The chemical energy stored in hydrogen bonds is just so much denser than the electrical energy stored in concentrated lithium ions. I know that battery-powered planes have been built, but it just seems so uneconomical to me. Do you have evidence that could persuade me otherwise? Or perhaps am I misunderstanding? By light aircraft do you mean aircraft less than 100 pounds or something?
    - dchichkov 12y ago
      AFAIK electric airplanes have been around for 10 years or so. Antares 20E came out around 2003. And now there are plenty others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft#Production_aircraft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft#Production_ai...
    - marvin 12y ago
      In short, I strongly believe that you're incorrect. (Note: I'm talking about general/recreational aviation here). dchichkov mentioned the Antares, which is a high-performance electric self-launch sailplane. In this category, there's also the Pipistrel Taurus G4. Lots of other electrically-powered light aircraft exist, and they are all held back by battery weight, volume and cost. There is a large number of advantages to electric propulsion vs. combustion engines in aircraft: Much lower maintenance costs, simpler maintenance, higher reliability (in gliders, replacing two-stroke engines with electric motors yields a huge safety advantage), lower fuel cost, simpler operation (less possibility for human error), less noise, lower weight (ex batteries), smaller volume per unit power, higher efficiency, lower purchase cost. The only real disadvantages are low energy density and charging time/infrastructure. At some point in the medium-term future (~5 years) we will hit a point where the benefits obviously outweigh the disadvantages for many use cases. In fact, I think the inflection point has already been hit wrt. the battery tech, it's just that it isn't obvious to anyone who isn't intimately familiar with the progress in battery pack cost development. Give it a couple of years. Even this list of advantages disregards the fact that the mechanical simplicity of electric motors enable aircraft configurations that haven't been tried at scale, for instance gimballed/swerving variable-geometry ducted-fan propellers, etc. Electric motors are also not dependent on high air pressure to get enough oxygen for efficient combustion. There's just a huge new design space that opens up when you have sufficiently powerful battery storage. Super exciting. Pay attention to the drone aircraft companies, they are the ones in a position to drive this shift.
- bnejad 12y ago
  What makes you think this? Portable batteries like this are dime a dozen (maybe not for macs, I don't own one). Or the real play is licensing the battery tech which doesn't really seem Microsoft like at all since the company would likely fade into the background as the big battery companies use the technology. I don't mean to be offensive, just curious why you are so confident this company or product is a industry game changer.
  - andrewparker 12y ago
    You need to read to the end of the post to understand PG's analogy. There is software that controls the charging rate of the battery that (if the claims are correct) could be fundamentally disruptive to batteries going forward, so the Altair analogy implies a potential software licensing strategy as an upside in this company.
    - chillingeffect 12y ago
      But is this new technology? Have they really figured out something that other battery companies don't know? This charger takes 2.25 hours to reach 80% or 4.5 hours to reach 100% capacity. Could it simply be that they're charging more slowly? Maybe other battery makers know about this, but they don't implement it because they (and consumers) don't value using the battery effectively. Hoping for some lithium-charging experts (I know there are people out there with this as their primary research focus) to weigh in.
      - veemjeem 12y ago
        Since they filed a patent on it, I assume it is new tech. There is new charging tech from time to time, but most of the IP belongs to those big semiconductor companies, like TI. I know TI has an innovative power management module for LiPoly batteries, but it is pretty expensive.
        dchichkov 12y ago
        It could be a new tech. While there are quite a few BMS chips available around, from a bunch of companies [ http://liionbms.com/html/BMS_IC_table.html http://liionbms.com/html/BMS_IC_table.html ] it is possible that they did some careful research onto what charging cycles are used in these products and found charging cycles that work even better for particular battery chemistries. On the other hand, research is tough and it is so much easier to learn about the existence of a few hot words (like BMS), file a provisional patent and smooth-talk an investor or two with 'BatteryOS platform' . Considering that they are comparing their charging cycle with the "conventional" charger and throw words like "Chevy Volt, which only charges its battery to 50 percent capacity" I'm finding this scenario as a more likely one. Still. It is not like I wouldn't like having more well designed LiIon BMS/charger combos on the market! There aren't many available and it's always nice to have more choice! So good luck!
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  What? its just a powerbank, plenty of those on scambay they even lie about capacity/charge time just like Chinese
- qwerta 12y ago
  I have similar battery from APC. It is 5 years old and still holds most of its capacity. That super software is called battery calibration.
- oskarth 12y ago
  This seems bigger than Altair Basic to me. If this thing works well it's huge already. Battery time is one of the biggest problems for people working out of the office (along with decent internet and peace of mind).
- benjamincburns 12y ago
  I'm curious to know how much work they'd done on the idea ahead of time. If this was conceived during YC, they're definitely a very impressive team. A few months ago I looked into building this exact product. If you're a DIY kinda person and you don't mind carrying around some extra bulk, it's somewhat easy to cobble something together. If you want a light/small brick w/ self-contained charging and output regulation that just works, it's much more difficult and potentially dangerous -- especially if you want it to charge fast enough that a 1h airport layover is meaningful. Add in more advanced battery management/conditioning schemes, and I'm just all kinds of impressed. Though, this claim does irk me a little: > With the same battery, we could charge to a full 100 percent and it won’t degrade > Never experience loss in capacity again. A Li-ion battery powered by BatteryOS doesn’t degrade in capacity over time, and as a result has a 4x higher cycle life than when controlled by conventional methods. I think I need a better definition of "capacity degradation" here - if you acknowledge that there's still a charge cycle limit, I'm curious to know what happens once it's reached. Either way, I'm very sceptical of anything which claims to completely eliminate the effects of entropy.
  - esmi 12y ago
    There are 100s of ways to game this cycle spec too. For example, for all we know there is a 100WHr pack inside the box and they only make 50WHr of it available to the user. This way you can make a 50WHr battery that effectively never "degrades". The BatteryOS just manages the "reserve". Then the only thing they are really measuring is the speed at which their algorithm looses calibration. The software for many BMUs (battery management units) actually does this today.
    - benjamincburns 12y ago
      That's not a terrible idea, actually. When you purchase any NAND flash device like a USB stick or an SSD, essentially the same thing is happening. The raw storage is much higher, but due to a high raw bit error rate (see NAND displacement errors), the need for wear leveling, and the need for reserve blocks to swap into service as the device ages, the claimed capacities are reduced to accommodate MTBF and observed bit error specs. In cases such as this I think it'd be disingenuous not to drop your claimed specs to reflect the actual usefulness of the device.
zxcvvcxz 12y ago
Wow this seems to be a very clear-cut value add. Question on how the technology works: I don't really understand what a "battery OS" is. Do they have circuits that somehow manage the battery better or something?
- klaruz 12y ago
  They say they have a patent pending, that should have more details. I would like to read it, can anybody find the filing? http://www.gbatteries.com/technology/ http://www.gbatteries.com/technology/
  - Blahah 12y ago
    pretty sure it's this one: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 basically the technique involves pulsing the current during (dis)charging, and optimising the length and timing of the pulsing in real-time, because the optimal settings change through the life of the battery.
    - noonespecial 12y ago
      I'm kind of a battery nut. I've been building various pulse chargers and capacitive current limiting chargers for years. Without fail all of my most promising pulse charge/bleed schemes that yielded faster charges and greater runtimes have done so at the expense of cycle numbers. Usually by a factor of 10 or more. I hope they've outsmarted this, but I have my doubts.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  >Wow and >I don't really understand in same post, what are the odds? :) Its a scam. They are tryting to sell 50Whr battery that can be charged in >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply from usb (5V), thats maths 101 >Do they have circuits that somehow manage the battery They are selling product that stores more power than it consumes while being charged. Its snake oil at best, more likely a scam.
btrautsc 12y ago
Pre-ordered. Unfortunately when traveling - device power is a constant pain point for me. very excited about utilizing for both Macbook & phone.
oq 12y ago
Take my money already! This is going to be a life saver - it's like a mophie juice pack for my MacBook, but smaller and more powerful.
gopalv 12y ago
Why Macbooks? Is Apple friendly towards people who replicate their connector interfaces? Or are Macs the only popular device out there where people wish "I wish I could carry an extra battery!"?
- maxmcd 12y ago
  If you wanted to cover as much current and future market share as possible (at least in the market they're targeting) I can't think of a better current combination than magsafe2 + usb. Other than, maybe, a portable power outlet.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - thinkmassive 12y ago
      And MagSafe 2 was introduced in 2012.
  - ctz 12y ago
    You surely mean magsafe 2, here.
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  The founders probably haven't seen many people using a non-MacBook laptop in a long time, given how prevalent they are in tech these days.
- runamok 12y ago
  I am guessing they have licensed magsafe from Apple. Pretty sure they would get a call from Apple lawyers otherwise. There are universal chargers and batteries with all sorts of connectors which are not patent encumbered. Kind of makes me wonder if Apple would cooperate at this stage and then consider buying the company later.
  - kwiens 12y ago
maxmcd 12y ago
I really like the end of their FAQ. Almost made a call. http://www.getbatterybox.com/#faq http://www.getbatterybox.com/#faq
williwu 12y ago
Does Apple allow licensing of MagSafe now?
- iwasakabukiman 12y ago
  That was my first thought. I remember reading a few years ago that a company actually had to stop making Macbook compatible external batteries because Apple threatened to sue them over use of the MagSafe connector. EDIT: I found the article, and apparently the company was sued for using actual recycled connectors, not just using the design. http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/21/apple_sues_hypermac_accessory_maker_over_magsafe_ipod_cables http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/21/apple_sues_hyperma...
  - mabhatter 12y ago
    But they used recycled connectors as a way of using the legal argument their product was a "customer modification" of a licensed and paid for product. You sent them YOUR charger and they modified it to work with their device. They STILL got shut down by Apple because the Mag Safe also used circuitry inside the brick that they "hacked" to make their brick work like.. Basically DRM and DMCA for power bricks shut them down.
    - post_break 12y ago
      I have one of the original cables before they got shut down. It's just a magsafe end with a barrel connector on the other. No DRM voodoo.
      - rasz_pl 12y ago
        DRM voodoo is in the charger, it speaks 1-Wire telling computer its make model and power. Most likely can also be controlled over 1-Wire.
        kens 12y ago
        The magsafe connector talks 1-wire, not the charger itself. It provides serial number and version info but no DRM/crypto. The Mac also uses the 1-wire to control the LEDs on the connector. See my teardown for the details: http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-magsafe.html http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-ma...
hackcasual 12y ago
I suspect the 100% charging time was miscalculated. USB power is 5volts, so a 1A charger meants 5W of continuous power. Battery charging, especially past 85% is not very efficient, so I suspect total charging time will be more in the neighborhood of 20 hours.
- jmgrosen 12y ago
  My guess is those times are assuming a 2A charger, which isn't particularly uncommon nowadays.
  - hackcasual 12y ago
    They call that out as taking half as long. My guess is they calculated the charge time using 1A but the voltage from the output (17v?)
    - rasz_pl 12y ago
      >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply They are simply LYING, probably learned from the same Chinese that will build it for them using 5000mAh* Ultrafire 16850 cells ;) *400mAh when tested
- pascal_cuoq 12y ago
  You are right. Without even taking into account efficiency, “nine hours for 100 percent charge [of a 50 Whr battery] on a [5V USB] 1A power supply” obviously breaks the conservation of energy. The claim “4.5 hours for 80% charge” breaks it even more. They should make perpetual motion devices, not external batteries.
bittercynic 12y ago
They're making some pretty strange claims about capacity and number of cycles. In electric RC heli circles, batteries come along once in a while claiming to use previously unknown techniques to improve the performance of existing cells and a few gullible people buy them. They never deliver on the promises. People who make (established) battery management circuits understand very well how to care for the cells, and claiming to beat the numbers published by the battery manufacturers by a wide margin is close to announcing an "Ambient Energy" device. [Edited to poke fun at idea, not person/company.]
- thrownaway2424 12y ago
  Yeah, it's obviously snake oil. If you had a technology that increased the charge-cycle lifetime of a battery by any substantial amount, you wouldn't be marketing a stupid plastic box for mactards. You'd be cashing billion-dollar checks twice a day.
  - Blahah 12y ago
    if you read the article, you'd see they're working on OEM deals to get the tech into batteries across the board. The Box is just a nice consumer demo so people can get their hands on it now. Actually a pretty smart PR move. Also, the patent: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1
    - thrownaway2424 12y ago
      That's a patent application, yes. Are you aware that the USPTO gets so many applications for perpetual motion patents that they have regulations forbidding them? Patent application does not in any way indicate feasibility.
      - Blahah 12y ago
        I was just providing the application so people could evaluate the technology, not suggesting it was evidence of anything.
ja27 12y ago
Love it. Actually sitting next to my own "battery box" - a wheeled backpack with a 55 amp-hour AGM (lead acid) battery and inverter. I think I can get 3 work days out of that, but it's a lot bigger than this. Great for taking to the park though.
oddevan 12y ago
> note it does not charge the internal Macbook battery. Instead BatteryBox feeds power directly to the Mac in an effort to minimize the number of cycles (and stress) on the internal battery. Is this something that any power adapter does? Is there something in the way they have it connected that does this?
rayiner 12y ago
This technology, if legit, is I think a very good example of where software patents can add value. The future of this technology isn't a little $139 backup battery for Macbooks. Rather, its licensing the charging algorithms to every battery charging controller manufacturer on the planet. One can imagine that over time it might be a good idea for a company like this to vertically integrate and start producing its own batteries, but it's going to be a long time before they have the capital to take on the Korean/Japanese companies currently playing in that space. The alternative might be to angle to get bought by an Apple or Samsung, but that's probably not what's best for the industry. There's a lot of value to R&D companies like this that can focus on a specific niche without having to rely on some vertically-integrated conglomerate to get anything done.
mxfh 12y ago
Maybe this feature was a bit underreported: the current line of Lenovo's Ultrabooks, the ThinkPad X240/T440s allows for hot swapping the battery pack while running on a secondary built in battery. Adding up to 23.5 Whr built in plus up to 72Whr per battery pack. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s/#features http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s...
- wmf 12y ago
  So they're catching up with my old Pismo. It could even sleep for a few seconds with no battery at all.
- bananas 12y ago
  Yep. I could do this on my circa 2005 IBM T43.
  - pekk 12y ago
    Great. So why can't you do it on a MacBook Pro?
    - w1ntermute 12y ago
      Because removable batteries would offend the sensibilities of most Apple customers?
    - photojosh 12y ago
      Because they valued more the engineering advantage of a built-in battery: thinness, weight, individually connected cells for power management. Those attributes of design are more appealing to the majority than are interchangeable batteries. My MBP and MBAir, even with the single built-in battery, gets more runtime than a 1996 laptop with two battery packs.
  - mxfh 12y ago
    Without hibernating to disk first? or via using the Ultrabay as secondary battery? [1] [1] http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_use_Ultrabay_batteries#Battery_hot-swapping http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_use_Ultrabay_batteries#... [EDIT] Also I'm not in any way affiliated with IBM/Lenovo. But the always-on USB-port feature is also a handy emergency travel phone charger if you can (or have to) prioritize phone usage over computer usage with no power outlets in reach. Since the Ultrabook is off and doesn't have to use any power itself you could theoretically stay connected for weeks given a charged battery pack.
JSadowski 12y ago
They claim that their 50 Whr battery can power a MacBook Pro for 6 hours, a MacBook Air for 12 hrs. By my math, that would mean that the MacBook Pro would only be consuming an average of around 8.3 watts an hour, the air only around 4.2 watts an hour. That seems absurd to me, considering the power supplies that ship with the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air are 85-watt and 45-watt respectively. They are assuming that each only draws about 10% of the power that the official power supplies are rated at. Anyone have a Kill-A-Watt to see the actual draw of their device?
- rayiner 12y ago
  The Air has I think a 50 WHr battery and will last 11-12 hours for Wi-Fi surfing. I think the idle load is just a couple of watts. Peak load is of course higher.
  - JSadowski 12y ago
    Good point, I didn't think to check the capacity of the Air's internal battery.
- mikeash 12y ago
  The difference in power draw between idle and 100% utilization on a modern computer is enormous. The power adapter needs to be able to handle 100%, but the sort of usage where you get 6-12 hours of use while on battery is very much near idle almost all the time. I have a 15" MacBook Pro, which has a 95Wh battery. Apple claims 8 hours of battery life on it, and in my experience that's an understatement. It also ships with an 85W power adapter.
  - userbinator 12y ago
    > The power adapter needs to be able to handle 100% Actually it can't; there used to be a support article on Apple's site named HT2332 that details how Macbooks will underclock with the battery removed, because the adapter cannot supply enough power with the system at full load. Other manufacturer's laptops have also been doing this, so Apple is not alone.
mrfusion 12y ago
Would this be useful for Tesla?
- oddevan 12y ago
  Absolutely. And Apple, and Dell, and anyone else that uses rechargeable batteries that degrade over time. This solves the degradation aspect of batteries, so it would improve the longevity of devices.
  - mrfusion 12y ago
    But I've read so much about Tesla being really intelligent with charging. Wouldn't they have already thought of this? (Or at least be doing enough intelligent things already that they wouldn't get much additional improvement?)
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  Definitelly. Since their magic box consumes 45Whr >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply over USB to charge fully into 50Whr battery. Its Perpetuum mobile. Musk would love one of those.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
dotBen 12y ago
Mentioned in passing in child comments below, but worth highlighting - the HyperJuice Battery range of products (eg http://amzn.to/1mqK9ap http://amzn.to/1mqK9ap) already does this, at a similar price point, and is available for purchase today. In fact they're already onto the second generation of the product, with minor bugs and issues with the first gen already ironed out. I get this GBattery has a new "BatteryOS" management feature but right now that's vaporware and unproven, and unavailable for purchase - thus I don't really understand the excitement vs what you could already buy today.
- mcmillion 12y ago
  We bought a HyperJuice 2 for use on trips. It's terrible. It'll charge a 15" rMBP about 10-15% before it's completely dead.
  - post_break 12y ago
    It's not made to charge the laptops. It's made to keep them running. The rmbp will suck any battery dry trying to charge and run at the same time. Keep the rmbp at 100% and plug in the battery and let me know how long it lasts.
  - dotBen 12y ago
    It's not designed to charge MacBook Pros, just Airs due to the wattage required. I don't believe that's any difference for the GBattery either.
ed 12y ago
Would love to see a battery built in to my MBP's power brick. Charge, and provide power, when it's plugged in. Run off the battery when it's not.
Zenst 12y ago
Nice though would not a A4 (laptop sized) slab instead of a box be better as could then sit under the laptop and also easily fit inside the laptop case. Just a thought.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  It's a lot more expensive to make custom-shaped cells than to pop a couple of standard cylindrical cells into a square box.
  - Zenst 12y ago
    True, though more production of flat cells than round, mobile phones case in point - they are all flat in shape. Actualy not really come across flat LiOn cells personaly in any form. Capacitors - yes.
phreeza 12y ago
For anyone from the metric world too lazy to look it up: 9 ounces equals 255.146 gramms.
bluedino 12y ago
The Air's battery already lasts 12+ hours. How much demand could there possibly be for people to stretch it out even further? HyperJuice (and I would guess others) is already out there and I've never even seen one of those things in the wild.
- tim333 12y ago
  The latest Air in ideal conditions does 12hrs. My friends couple of year old one managed to run out fairly promptly when using by the swimming pool where there were no sockets. He could be a customer if the gadget's good.
diminoten 12y ago
This has almost nothing at all to do with Apple. I'm a little sad that folks can't get past the proof-of-concept product. The game-changer is BatteryOS, not BatteryBox. Who cares about BatteryBox itself? Think bigger, people, come on.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  There's not much to discuss about BatteryOS until it's been verified by third parties. Every 4 months or so we get a news article about some amazing breakthrough in battery technology, and they never ever seem to pan out.
kiddz 12y ago
This looks like a great idea. We are applying to the upcoming class with a different approach though. Instead of owning batteries (however spectacular they are), we think it's about creating a network to share batteries. Think bike share for batteries. Would love to chat about using Gbatteries in such a network.
jernejz 12y ago
Pre-ordered a while ago ... can't wait to live in a jungle and not worry about juice :)
ycaspirant 12y ago
Many companies have been trying to produce external Macbook batteries (e.g. http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/External-Battery-for-MacBook-iPad-iPhone-USB/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/External-Battery-for-Mac...), but the major stumbling block has been that Apple does not allow third parties to use the Magsafe interface. Has Gbatteries found a way around this problem?
uncleruckus 12y ago
I would love if this had some sort of a universal plug on it so you can power other laptops besides Macs. Then you can plug some sort of adapter in so you can charge Dell, Sony, etc. laptops as well.
akramhussein 12y ago
BatteryOS seems to be the most important aspect here. Consumer electronics manufacturers have different goals than this class of product, which may not always align with every consumer. So if they are abstracting all that logic into their own MCU OS, that is pretty smart. I can see an iPhone/Mac app to tune your BatteryBox to charge faster at the cost of life time/cycles(?) (clearly telling you this!) or vice versa...allowing you to tailor the solution to your needs. This is different to what Apple would offer as they need to find a one size fits all solution and that is usually some sweet spot for high cycle count + low charge time and long battery life. Going one step further, possibility for some ML to learn your use case and charge your MacBook accordingly. Regardless, the battery is irrelevant, the OS is key.
zakelfassi 12y ago
The desk in the Savannah-like setting + shades + call the founder at his cell = Take my money.
qwerta 12y ago
My laptop has swapable battery. I can also swap HDD bay from my desktop when I am traveling. It is really funny to see Mac fans excited about simple external battery. This stuff is around for decades!
- mikeash 12y ago
  I don't think I've seen anyone get excited about it yet.
- alexcroox 12y ago
  What laptop do you have? Macbook Pro's are so thin now even a RJ45 hole is too tall. I can forgive them for not having a replaceable battery for size/weight and noise reduction having everything so tightly integrated.
  - jsnell 12y ago
    The ThinkPad x240 is thinner and lighter than a MacBook Pro and still manages to find space for an external battery, an RJ45 jack, and a VGA connector.
    - natdempk 12y ago
      Its not thinner. The x240 is 0.8 inches thick [1] and the MacBook Pro is 0.71 inches thick. [2] Not trying to fanboy here having used both of those laptops recently. [1] http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x240.aspx http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x24... [2] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/
      - jsnell 12y ago
        Thanks, and sorry about the misinformation. I got my info from http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/, which was the first result for a search for "Macbook Pro dimensions". Didn't realize that was apparently obsolete info.
magoon 12y ago
Their battery technology sounds great but, honestly, I am a consumer so my point of view is "do I want to buy this for $139?" Yes, I do want it, mostly so that I can set it next to my Macbook Air (mid-2012) for a full day's worth of power, as is the use case shown so prominently on the web site. Take away the MagSafe 2 and I don't want it.
frade33 12y ago
This is really exciting, and a real problem solver, than good-for-nothing social apps popping up every other day. I wonder do they ship 'internationally'? on a second thought, why not make the color of the box, say like mbp body color, or other light grayish colors, when it's intended for apple products. the green color does not seem a right fit for an accessory of apple products. >and a total of 9 hours for 100% charge yikes! But i guess it's okay since it's a 'standby' battery.
rosser 12y ago
How is this different from my HyperJuice? That gives me 50Whr, too, and also has a USB port. It pretty much doubled the life of my Air, and slightly less for my 13" rMBP (Haswell i5, with 16GB).
ntoshev 12y ago
It was about time someone optimized charging/discharging of batteries. I didn't know ordinary batteries have such a potential for optimization, I thought that would be the batteries in UPSes. Current UPS batteries die in 3 years, having been used just a dozen times, apparently because the UPS insists to keep them fully charged at all times. Someone fix this, please.
revmoo 12y ago
I don't understand this at all. A laptop typically uses 30-100Whr just being turned on. So this gigantic lump of crap gives me an extra hour or so?
ehsanu1 12y ago
As a product, this doesn't seem to offer all that much over competitors besides the claimed reduction in degradation. Otherwise, something like this seems better and cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-External-Netbooks-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=pd_cp_pc_3 http://www.amazon.com/20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-External-Netboo...
huslage 12y ago
Come on pg. This isn't real tech. This is just a battery in a box with a $1 microcontroller. We could hack this together in a day in my basement.
mpg33 12y ago
This could be huge...wonder if Tesla/Solar City would be interested in buying them?
4684499 12y ago
I don't know why many people are focus on Apple or protable battery. With such tech, the potential could be anywhere need an efficient energy solution. The BatterBox might be the first appliance. Are you willing to buy something cost you 10 bucks while it saves you 20 bucks?
thisisrobv 12y ago
How does a YC backed company create a video with audio that's clearly watermarked. Presumably they could afford the $17 license...
rdl 12y ago
Curious why they didn't go with Kickstarter for the BatteryBox. The product looks really interesting, and I think I'll order some.
tim333 12y ago
Their patent I believe: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1
ulfw 12y ago
Somewhat odd to target a computer that already runs for 12hours to run 'another 12 hours' with a big bulky external battery pack. Would make more sense to target something like an iPhone or others that run way too short to last a day. Problem is: battery packs for those are a dime a dozen. I do wish them best of luck though!
alandarev 12y ago
Why the capacity sometimes goes higher on the graph as the battery ages? Can anyone explain, or is this just a marketing crap?
jacquesm 12y ago
Pre-ordering hardware that makes promises of substantial improvements over the status-quo that will only be testable by the buyer a few years down the line is a recipe for disaster. Do yourself a favour and hold on to your money until there are actual units that have been tested rigorously (as in, in an independent lab unaffiliated with the company) to see if the promises are delivered on.
- JacobAldridge 12y ago
  Would have been nice if TechCrunch did some testing / reporting, instead of accepting / repeating. Not that I'm surprised, just would have been nice in this area.
dsirijus 12y ago
Get a new industrial designer onboard. Yesterday. Seeing the thing, I'm inclined to believe that that "new" in previous sentence is superfluous. Plugging this into my MacBook Air would make me feel like getting a $20 prostitute. And paying her $200 afterwards nonetheless.
evck 12y ago
If this works, it seems pretty strange to build their own devices with it. With a patent on the methods they could make a fortune licensing the technology to Si companies. They would reach the market much quicker too. However, having worked on BMS systems for lithium batteries this sounds very fishy. Maybe they've hit on something spectacular, but it seriously looks like snake oil based on the info they've provided thus far.

264 points by timsher 12y ago

enscr 12y ago

I think all laptops can extend the battery life-span significantly with just smarter software. I manually cycle my laptop battery regularly & do not keep it charged at 100% all the time even if the laptop is plugged in (some Thinkpad models allow that). Even after 2 years of daily use, I've got greater than 80-90% battery capacity left.

evan_ 12y ago
I do absolutely nothing special to try to prolong the lifetime of my 3-year-old MacBook Pro battery and it's still got 92% capacity.
- enscr 12y ago
  My experience with Windows laptops is totally different

pg 12y ago

Here is a classic example of a startup launching an Altair Basic with the potential produce a Microsoft-like giant. Incidentally, I think this is also the first father/son team we've funded.

_jss 12y ago
What is the strategy for when Apple disallows sales based on the Magsafe adapter? This happened to HyperMac (now HyperJuice) batteries back in 2011. I still have mine, ordered before Apple lawyers went after them. It's wonderful. Edit: Adding link to Wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with-cable-chopping-magic-magsafe-adapter/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with...
- MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
  I have some HyperJuice units that I made cables for. It works OK, but is definitely clunky. I think it could be done in a better way, but it can only be a hack with Apple defending the walls of their garden so militantly. For this reason I really hope GBatteries have a license to use the connector, and that they build in some cable management similar to what's on the magsafe unit, so the cable can be coiled neatly. My other feedback is that having a built-in AC adapter would be so very useful. Look at the HyperJuice plug [1]. It's got the AC prongs that just slide out -- no separate wall wart, and no micro-usb cable. People that have only Apple devices won't have many micro USB cables around. It would also prevent someone from plugging the USB cable into their laptop while it's being powered by the external battery. :\ 1: http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ (note that this model HyperJuice will not charge a laptop)
- toyg 12y ago
  I think that it's not about the BatteryBox product per se, but about some technology inside which is supposed to reduce long-term capacity loss. The box itself is basically a demo to sell or license the actual tech to OEMs.
  - XorNot 12y ago
    This is straight up not possible. Lithium-ion batteries degrade irreversibly as they're used - the only way to reduce capacity loss is to reduce the depth-of-discharge: add more cells, and discharge them less per cycle. Unless they're fiddling with the actual chemistry of the cells, it's unlikely they've changed anything.
    - jonknee 12y ago
      Did you read the linked article? > Batteries are typically charged and discharged through a constant stream of power, which causes problems like SEI layer formation that causes the battery to degrade over time. The BatteryOS system, by contrast, takes an active role in managing what’s happening inside a Li-ion battery, which not only lengthens the life of the battery, but also gives it the ability to store 10 percent to 40 percent more power. Obviously the proof is in the results, but that's what they're claiming.
marvin 12y ago
Battery storage will be absolutely huge in a few years. There is so much potential that has gone unexplored, since batteries have traditionally been heavy, low-capacity and short-lived. At least some of the people in this space who are in the right place at the right time today, are going to win big. Someone will have to build all these batteries. Everything from cars to renewable energy to light aircraft is going to be battery-powered in the future. It will be very exciting to see what happens in this space, and I'm bummed that I'm largely unable to invest in this space myself. Best of luck to the YC-backed companies :) (Case in point: Tesla Motors have announced that they're building the world's largest Li-ion battery factory, to the tune of $5 billion).
- tedsanders 12y ago
  I think it's very unlikely that airplanes will be battery powered in the medium-term future. The chemical energy stored in hydrogen bonds is just so much denser than the electrical energy stored in concentrated lithium ions. I know that battery-powered planes have been built, but it just seems so uneconomical to me. Do you have evidence that could persuade me otherwise? Or perhaps am I misunderstanding? By light aircraft do you mean aircraft less than 100 pounds or something?
  - dchichkov 12y ago
    AFAIK electric airplanes have been around for 10 years or so. Antares 20E came out around 2003. And now there are plenty others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft#Production_aircraft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft#Production_ai...
  - marvin 12y ago
    In short, I strongly believe that you're incorrect. (Note: I'm talking about general/recreational aviation here). dchichkov mentioned the Antares, which is a high-performance electric self-launch sailplane. In this category, there's also the Pipistrel Taurus G4. Lots of other electrically-powered light aircraft exist, and they are all held back by battery weight, volume and cost. There is a large number of advantages to electric propulsion vs. combustion engines in aircraft: Much lower maintenance costs, simpler maintenance, higher reliability (in gliders, replacing two-stroke engines with electric motors yields a huge safety advantage), lower fuel cost, simpler operation (less possibility for human error), less noise, lower weight (ex batteries), smaller volume per unit power, higher efficiency, lower purchase cost. The only real disadvantages are low energy density and charging time/infrastructure. At some point in the medium-term future (~5 years) we will hit a point where the benefits obviously outweigh the disadvantages for many use cases. In fact, I think the inflection point has already been hit wrt. the battery tech, it's just that it isn't obvious to anyone who isn't intimately familiar with the progress in battery pack cost development. Give it a couple of years. Even this list of advantages disregards the fact that the mechanical simplicity of electric motors enable aircraft configurations that haven't been tried at scale, for instance gimballed/swerving variable-geometry ducted-fan propellers, etc. Electric motors are also not dependent on high air pressure to get enough oxygen for efficient combustion. There's just a huge new design space that opens up when you have sufficiently powerful battery storage. Super exciting. Pay attention to the drone aircraft companies, they are the ones in a position to drive this shift.
bnejad 12y ago
What makes you think this? Portable batteries like this are dime a dozen (maybe not for macs, I don't own one). Or the real play is licensing the battery tech which doesn't really seem Microsoft like at all since the company would likely fade into the background as the big battery companies use the technology. I don't mean to be offensive, just curious why you are so confident this company or product is a industry game changer.
- andrewparker 12y ago
  You need to read to the end of the post to understand PG's analogy. There is software that controls the charging rate of the battery that (if the claims are correct) could be fundamentally disruptive to batteries going forward, so the Altair analogy implies a potential software licensing strategy as an upside in this company.
  - chillingeffect 12y ago
    But is this new technology? Have they really figured out something that other battery companies don't know? This charger takes 2.25 hours to reach 80% or 4.5 hours to reach 100% capacity. Could it simply be that they're charging more slowly? Maybe other battery makers know about this, but they don't implement it because they (and consumers) don't value using the battery effectively. Hoping for some lithium-charging experts (I know there are people out there with this as their primary research focus) to weigh in.
    - veemjeem 12y ago
      Since they filed a patent on it, I assume it is new tech. There is new charging tech from time to time, but most of the IP belongs to those big semiconductor companies, like TI. I know TI has an innovative power management module for LiPoly batteries, but it is pretty expensive.
      - dchichkov 12y ago
        It could be a new tech. While there are quite a few BMS chips available around, from a bunch of companies [ http://liionbms.com/html/BMS_IC_table.html http://liionbms.com/html/BMS_IC_table.html ] it is possible that they did some careful research onto what charging cycles are used in these products and found charging cycles that work even better for particular battery chemistries. On the other hand, research is tough and it is so much easier to learn about the existence of a few hot words (like BMS), file a provisional patent and smooth-talk an investor or two with 'BatteryOS platform' . Considering that they are comparing their charging cycle with the "conventional" charger and throw words like "Chevy Volt, which only charges its battery to 50 percent capacity" I'm finding this scenario as a more likely one. Still. It is not like I wouldn't like having more well designed LiIon BMS/charger combos on the market! There aren't many available and it's always nice to have more choice! So good luck!
rasz_pl 12y ago
What? its just a powerbank, plenty of those on scambay they even lie about capacity/charge time just like Chinese
qwerta 12y ago
I have similar battery from APC. It is 5 years old and still holds most of its capacity. That super software is called battery calibration.
oskarth 12y ago
This seems bigger than Altair Basic to me. If this thing works well it's huge already. Battery time is one of the biggest problems for people working out of the office (along with decent internet and peace of mind).
benjamincburns 12y ago
I'm curious to know how much work they'd done on the idea ahead of time. If this was conceived during YC, they're definitely a very impressive team. A few months ago I looked into building this exact product. If you're a DIY kinda person and you don't mind carrying around some extra bulk, it's somewhat easy to cobble something together. If you want a light/small brick w/ self-contained charging and output regulation that just works, it's much more difficult and potentially dangerous -- especially if you want it to charge fast enough that a 1h airport layover is meaningful. Add in more advanced battery management/conditioning schemes, and I'm just all kinds of impressed. Though, this claim does irk me a little: > With the same battery, we could charge to a full 100 percent and it won’t degrade > Never experience loss in capacity again. A Li-ion battery powered by BatteryOS doesn’t degrade in capacity over time, and as a result has a 4x higher cycle life than when controlled by conventional methods. I think I need a better definition of "capacity degradation" here - if you acknowledge that there's still a charge cycle limit, I'm curious to know what happens once it's reached. Either way, I'm very sceptical of anything which claims to completely eliminate the effects of entropy.
- esmi 12y ago
  There are 100s of ways to game this cycle spec too. For example, for all we know there is a 100WHr pack inside the box and they only make 50WHr of it available to the user. This way you can make a 50WHr battery that effectively never "degrades". The BatteryOS just manages the "reserve". Then the only thing they are really measuring is the speed at which their algorithm looses calibration. The software for many BMUs (battery management units) actually does this today.
  - benjamincburns 12y ago
    That's not a terrible idea, actually. When you purchase any NAND flash device like a USB stick or an SSD, essentially the same thing is happening. The raw storage is much higher, but due to a high raw bit error rate (see NAND displacement errors), the need for wear leveling, and the need for reserve blocks to swap into service as the device ages, the claimed capacities are reduced to accommodate MTBF and observed bit error specs. In cases such as this I think it'd be disingenuous not to drop your claimed specs to reflect the actual usefulness of the device.

zxcvvcxz 12y ago

Wow this seems to be a very clear-cut value add. Question on how the technology works: I don't really understand what a "battery OS" is. Do they have circuits that somehow manage the battery better or something?

klaruz 12y ago
They say they have a patent pending, that should have more details. I would like to read it, can anybody find the filing? http://www.gbatteries.com/technology/ http://www.gbatteries.com/technology/
- Blahah 12y ago
  pretty sure it's this one: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 basically the technique involves pulsing the current during (dis)charging, and optimising the length and timing of the pulsing in real-time, because the optimal settings change through the life of the battery.
  - noonespecial 12y ago
    I'm kind of a battery nut. I've been building various pulse chargers and capacitive current limiting chargers for years. Without fail all of my most promising pulse charge/bleed schemes that yielded faster charges and greater runtimes have done so at the expense of cycle numbers. Usually by a factor of 10 or more. I hope they've outsmarted this, but I have my doubts.
deleted 12y ago
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rasz_pl 12y ago
>Wow and >I don't really understand in same post, what are the odds? :) Its a scam. They are tryting to sell 50Whr battery that can be charged in >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply from usb (5V), thats maths 101 >Do they have circuits that somehow manage the battery They are selling product that stores more power than it consumes while being charged. Its snake oil at best, more likely a scam.

btrautsc 12y ago

Pre-ordered. Unfortunately when traveling - device power is a constant pain point for me. very excited about utilizing for both Macbook & phone.

oq 12y ago

Take my money already! This is going to be a life saver - it's like a mophie juice pack for my MacBook, but smaller and more powerful.

gopalv 12y ago

Why Macbooks? Is Apple friendly towards people who replicate their connector interfaces? Or are Macs the only popular device out there where people wish "I wish I could carry an extra battery!"?

maxmcd 12y ago
If you wanted to cover as much current and future market share as possible (at least in the market they're targeting) I can't think of a better current combination than magsafe2 + usb. Other than, maybe, a portable power outlet.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - thinkmassive 12y ago
    And MagSafe 2 was introduced in 2012.
- ctz 12y ago
  You surely mean magsafe 2, here.
w1ntermute 12y ago
The founders probably haven't seen many people using a non-MacBook laptop in a long time, given how prevalent they are in tech these days.
runamok 12y ago
I am guessing they have licensed magsafe from Apple. Pretty sure they would get a call from Apple lawyers otherwise. There are universal chargers and batteries with all sorts of connectors which are not patent encumbered. Kind of makes me wonder if Apple would cooperate at this stage and then consider buying the company later.
- kwiens 12y ago

maxmcd 12y ago

I really like the end of their FAQ. Almost made a call. http://www.getbatterybox.com/#faq http://www.getbatterybox.com/#faq

williwu 12y ago

Does Apple allow licensing of MagSafe now?

iwasakabukiman 12y ago
That was my first thought. I remember reading a few years ago that a company actually had to stop making Macbook compatible external batteries because Apple threatened to sue them over use of the MagSafe connector. EDIT: I found the article, and apparently the company was sued for using actual recycled connectors, not just using the design. http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/21/apple_sues_hypermac_accessory_maker_over_magsafe_ipod_cables http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/21/apple_sues_hyperma...
- mabhatter 12y ago
  But they used recycled connectors as a way of using the legal argument their product was a "customer modification" of a licensed and paid for product. You sent them YOUR charger and they modified it to work with their device. They STILL got shut down by Apple because the Mag Safe also used circuitry inside the brick that they "hacked" to make their brick work like.. Basically DRM and DMCA for power bricks shut them down.
  - post_break 12y ago
    I have one of the original cables before they got shut down. It's just a magsafe end with a barrel connector on the other. No DRM voodoo.
    - rasz_pl 12y ago
      DRM voodoo is in the charger, it speaks 1-Wire telling computer its make model and power. Most likely can also be controlled over 1-Wire.
      - kens 12y ago
        The magsafe connector talks 1-wire, not the charger itself. It provides serial number and version info but no DRM/crypto. The Mac also uses the 1-wire to control the LEDs on the connector. See my teardown for the details: http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-magsafe.html http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-ma...

hackcasual 12y ago

I suspect the 100% charging time was miscalculated. USB power is 5volts, so a 1A charger meants 5W of continuous power. Battery charging, especially past 85% is not very efficient, so I suspect total charging time will be more in the neighborhood of 20 hours.

jmgrosen 12y ago
My guess is those times are assuming a 2A charger, which isn't particularly uncommon nowadays.
- hackcasual 12y ago
  They call that out as taking half as long. My guess is they calculated the charge time using 1A but the voltage from the output (17v?)
  - rasz_pl 12y ago
    >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply They are simply LYING, probably learned from the same Chinese that will build it for them using 5000mAh* Ultrafire 16850 cells ;) *400mAh when tested
pascal_cuoq 12y ago
You are right. Without even taking into account efficiency, “nine hours for 100 percent charge [of a 50 Whr battery] on a [5V USB] 1A power supply” obviously breaks the conservation of energy. The claim “4.5 hours for 80% charge” breaks it even more. They should make perpetual motion devices, not external batteries.

bittercynic 12y ago

They're making some pretty strange claims about capacity and number of cycles. In electric RC heli circles, batteries come along once in a while claiming to use previously unknown techniques to improve the performance of existing cells and a few gullible people buy them. They never deliver on the promises. People who make (established) battery management circuits understand very well how to care for the cells, and claiming to beat the numbers published by the battery manufacturers by a wide margin is close to announcing an "Ambient Energy" device. [Edited to poke fun at idea, not person/company.]

thrownaway2424 12y ago
Yeah, it's obviously snake oil. If you had a technology that increased the charge-cycle lifetime of a battery by any substantial amount, you wouldn't be marketing a stupid plastic box for mactards. You'd be cashing billion-dollar checks twice a day.
- Blahah 12y ago
  if you read the article, you'd see they're working on OEM deals to get the tech into batteries across the board. The Box is just a nice consumer demo so people can get their hands on it now. Actually a pretty smart PR move. Also, the patent: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1
  - thrownaway2424 12y ago
    That's a patent application, yes. Are you aware that the USPTO gets so many applications for perpetual motion patents that they have regulations forbidding them? Patent application does not in any way indicate feasibility.
    - Blahah 12y ago
      I was just providing the application so people could evaluate the technology, not suggesting it was evidence of anything.

ja27 12y ago

Love it. Actually sitting next to my own "battery box" - a wheeled backpack with a 55 amp-hour AGM (lead acid) battery and inverter. I think I can get 3 work days out of that, but it's a lot bigger than this. Great for taking to the park though.

oddevan 12y ago

> note it does not charge the internal Macbook battery. Instead BatteryBox feeds power directly to the Mac in an effort to minimize the number of cycles (and stress) on the internal battery. Is this something that any power adapter does? Is there something in the way they have it connected that does this?

rayiner 12y ago

This technology, if legit, is I think a very good example of where software patents can add value. The future of this technology isn't a little $139 backup battery for Macbooks. Rather, its licensing the charging algorithms to every battery charging controller manufacturer on the planet. One can imagine that over time it might be a good idea for a company like this to vertically integrate and start producing its own batteries, but it's going to be a long time before they have the capital to take on the Korean/Japanese companies currently playing in that space. The alternative might be to angle to get bought by an Apple or Samsung, but that's probably not what's best for the industry. There's a lot of value to R&D companies like this that can focus on a specific niche without having to rely on some vertically-integrated conglomerate to get anything done.

mxfh 12y ago

Maybe this feature was a bit underreported: the current line of Lenovo's Ultrabooks, the ThinkPad X240/T440s allows for hot swapping the battery pack while running on a secondary built in battery. Adding up to 23.5 Whr built in plus up to 72Whr per battery pack. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s/#features http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t440s...

wmf 12y ago
So they're catching up with my old Pismo. It could even sleep for a few seconds with no battery at all.
bananas 12y ago
Yep. I could do this on my circa 2005 IBM T43.
- pekk 12y ago
  Great. So why can't you do it on a MacBook Pro?
  - w1ntermute 12y ago
    Because removable batteries would offend the sensibilities of most Apple customers?
  - photojosh 12y ago
    Because they valued more the engineering advantage of a built-in battery: thinness, weight, individually connected cells for power management. Those attributes of design are more appealing to the majority than are interchangeable batteries. My MBP and MBAir, even with the single built-in battery, gets more runtime than a 1996 laptop with two battery packs.
- mxfh 12y ago
  Without hibernating to disk first? or via using the Ultrabay as secondary battery? [1] [1] http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_use_Ultrabay_batteries#Battery_hot-swapping http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_use_Ultrabay_batteries#... [EDIT] Also I'm not in any way affiliated with IBM/Lenovo. But the always-on USB-port feature is also a handy emergency travel phone charger if you can (or have to) prioritize phone usage over computer usage with no power outlets in reach. Since the Ultrabook is off and doesn't have to use any power itself you could theoretically stay connected for weeks given a charged battery pack.

JSadowski 12y ago

They claim that their 50 Whr battery can power a MacBook Pro for 6 hours, a MacBook Air for 12 hrs. By my math, that would mean that the MacBook Pro would only be consuming an average of around 8.3 watts an hour, the air only around 4.2 watts an hour. That seems absurd to me, considering the power supplies that ship with the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air are 85-watt and 45-watt respectively. They are assuming that each only draws about 10% of the power that the official power supplies are rated at. Anyone have a Kill-A-Watt to see the actual draw of their device?

rayiner 12y ago
The Air has I think a 50 WHr battery and will last 11-12 hours for Wi-Fi surfing. I think the idle load is just a couple of watts. Peak load is of course higher.
- JSadowski 12y ago
  Good point, I didn't think to check the capacity of the Air's internal battery.
mikeash 12y ago
The difference in power draw between idle and 100% utilization on a modern computer is enormous. The power adapter needs to be able to handle 100%, but the sort of usage where you get 6-12 hours of use while on battery is very much near idle almost all the time. I have a 15" MacBook Pro, which has a 95Wh battery. Apple claims 8 hours of battery life on it, and in my experience that's an understatement. It also ships with an 85W power adapter.
- userbinator 12y ago
  > The power adapter needs to be able to handle 100% Actually it can't; there used to be a support article on Apple's site named HT2332 that details how Macbooks will underclock with the battery removed, because the adapter cannot supply enough power with the system at full load. Other manufacturer's laptops have also been doing this, so Apple is not alone.

mrfusion 12y ago

Would this be useful for Tesla?

oddevan 12y ago
Absolutely. And Apple, and Dell, and anyone else that uses rechargeable batteries that degrade over time. This solves the degradation aspect of batteries, so it would improve the longevity of devices.
- mrfusion 12y ago
  But I've read so much about Tesla being really intelligent with charging. Wouldn't they have already thought of this? (Or at least be doing enough intelligent things already that they wouldn't get much additional improvement?)
rasz_pl 12y ago
Definitelly. Since their magic box consumes 45Whr >nine hours for 100 percent charge on a 1A power supply over USB to charge fully into 50Whr battery. Its Perpetuum mobile. Musk would love one of those.
deleted 12y ago
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dotBen 12y ago

Mentioned in passing in child comments below, but worth highlighting - the HyperJuice Battery range of products (eg http://amzn.to/1mqK9ap http://amzn.to/1mqK9ap) already does this, at a similar price point, and is available for purchase today. In fact they're already onto the second generation of the product, with minor bugs and issues with the first gen already ironed out. I get this GBattery has a new "BatteryOS" management feature but right now that's vaporware and unproven, and unavailable for purchase - thus I don't really understand the excitement vs what you could already buy today.

mcmillion 12y ago
We bought a HyperJuice 2 for use on trips. It's terrible. It'll charge a 15" rMBP about 10-15% before it's completely dead.
- post_break 12y ago
  It's not made to charge the laptops. It's made to keep them running. The rmbp will suck any battery dry trying to charge and run at the same time. Keep the rmbp at 100% and plug in the battery and let me know how long it lasts.
- dotBen 12y ago
  It's not designed to charge MacBook Pros, just Airs due to the wattage required. I don't believe that's any difference for the GBattery either.

ed 12y ago

Would love to see a battery built in to my MBP's power brick. Charge, and provide power, when it's plugged in. Run off the battery when it's not.

Zenst 12y ago

Nice though would not a A4 (laptop sized) slab instead of a box be better as could then sit under the laptop and also easily fit inside the laptop case. Just a thought.

kalleboo 12y ago
It's a lot more expensive to make custom-shaped cells than to pop a couple of standard cylindrical cells into a square box.
- Zenst 12y ago
  True, though more production of flat cells than round, mobile phones case in point - they are all flat in shape. Actualy not really come across flat LiOn cells personaly in any form. Capacitors - yes.

phreeza 12y ago

For anyone from the metric world too lazy to look it up: 9 ounces equals 255.146 gramms.

bluedino 12y ago

The Air's battery already lasts 12+ hours. How much demand could there possibly be for people to stretch it out even further? HyperJuice (and I would guess others) is already out there and I've never even seen one of those things in the wild.

tim333 12y ago
The latest Air in ideal conditions does 12hrs. My friends couple of year old one managed to run out fairly promptly when using by the swimming pool where there were no sockets. He could be a customer if the gadget's good.

diminoten 12y ago

This has almost nothing at all to do with Apple. I'm a little sad that folks can't get past the proof-of-concept product. The game-changer is BatteryOS, not BatteryBox. Who cares about BatteryBox itself? Think bigger, people, come on.

kalleboo 12y ago
There's not much to discuss about BatteryOS until it's been verified by third parties. Every 4 months or so we get a news article about some amazing breakthrough in battery technology, and they never ever seem to pan out.

kiddz 12y ago

This looks like a great idea. We are applying to the upcoming class with a different approach though. Instead of owning batteries (however spectacular they are), we think it's about creating a network to share batteries. Think bike share for batteries. Would love to chat about using Gbatteries in such a network.

jernejz 12y ago

Pre-ordered a while ago ... can't wait to live in a jungle and not worry about juice :)

ycaspirant 12y ago

Many companies have been trying to produce external Macbook batteries (e.g. http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/External-Battery-for-MacBook-iPad-iPhone-USB/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/External-Battery-for-Mac...), but the major stumbling block has been that Apple does not allow third parties to use the Magsafe interface. Has Gbatteries found a way around this problem?

uncleruckus 12y ago

I would love if this had some sort of a universal plug on it so you can power other laptops besides Macs. Then you can plug some sort of adapter in so you can charge Dell, Sony, etc. laptops as well.

akramhussein 12y ago

BatteryOS seems to be the most important aspect here. Consumer electronics manufacturers have different goals than this class of product, which may not always align with every consumer. So if they are abstracting all that logic into their own MCU OS, that is pretty smart. I can see an iPhone/Mac app to tune your BatteryBox to charge faster at the cost of life time/cycles(?) (clearly telling you this!) or vice versa...allowing you to tailor the solution to your needs. This is different to what Apple would offer as they need to find a one size fits all solution and that is usually some sweet spot for high cycle count + low charge time and long battery life. Going one step further, possibility for some ML to learn your use case and charge your MacBook accordingly. Regardless, the battery is irrelevant, the OS is key.

zakelfassi 12y ago

The desk in the Savannah-like setting + shades + call the founder at his cell = Take my money.

qwerta 12y ago

My laptop has swapable battery. I can also swap HDD bay from my desktop when I am traveling. It is really funny to see Mac fans excited about simple external battery. This stuff is around for decades!

mikeash 12y ago
I don't think I've seen anyone get excited about it yet.
alexcroox 12y ago
What laptop do you have? Macbook Pro's are so thin now even a RJ45 hole is too tall. I can forgive them for not having a replaceable battery for size/weight and noise reduction having everything so tightly integrated.
- jsnell 12y ago
  The ThinkPad x240 is thinner and lighter than a MacBook Pro and still manages to find space for an external battery, an RJ45 jack, and a VGA connector.
  - natdempk 12y ago
    Its not thinner. The x240 is 0.8 inches thick [1] and the MacBook Pro is 0.71 inches thick. [2] Not trying to fanboy here having used both of those laptops recently. [1] http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x240.aspx http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x24... [2] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/
    - jsnell 12y ago
      Thanks, and sorry about the misinformation. I got my info from http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/, which was the first result for a search for "Macbook Pro dimensions". Didn't realize that was apparently obsolete info.

magoon 12y ago

Their battery technology sounds great but, honestly, I am a consumer so my point of view is "do I want to buy this for $139?" Yes, I do want it, mostly so that I can set it next to my Macbook Air (mid-2012) for a full day's worth of power, as is the use case shown so prominently on the web site. Take away the MagSafe 2 and I don't want it.

frade33 12y ago

This is really exciting, and a real problem solver, than good-for-nothing social apps popping up every other day. I wonder do they ship 'internationally'? on a second thought, why not make the color of the box, say like mbp body color, or other light grayish colors, when it's intended for apple products. the green color does not seem a right fit for an accessory of apple products. >and a total of 9 hours for 100% charge yikes! But i guess it's okay since it's a 'standby' battery.

rosser 12y ago

How is this different from my HyperJuice? That gives me 50Whr, too, and also has a USB port. It pretty much doubled the life of my Air, and slightly less for my 13" rMBP (Haswell i5, with 16GB).

ntoshev 12y ago

It was about time someone optimized charging/discharging of batteries. I didn't know ordinary batteries have such a potential for optimization, I thought that would be the batteries in UPSes. Current UPS batteries die in 3 years, having been used just a dozen times, apparently because the UPS insists to keep them fully charged at all times. Someone fix this, please.

revmoo 12y ago

I don't understand this at all. A laptop typically uses 30-100Whr just being turned on. So this gigantic lump of crap gives me an extra hour or so?

ehsanu1 12y ago

As a product, this doesn't seem to offer all that much over competitors besides the claimed reduction in degradation. Otherwise, something like this seems better and cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-External-Netbooks-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=pd_cp_pc_3 http://www.amazon.com/20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-External-Netboo...

huslage 12y ago

Come on pg. This isn't real tech. This is just a battery in a box with a $1 microcontroller. We could hack this together in a day in my basement.

mpg33 12y ago

This could be huge...wonder if Tesla/Solar City would be interested in buying them?

4684499 12y ago

I don't know why many people are focus on Apple or protable battery. With such tech, the potential could be anywhere need an efficient energy solution. The BatterBox might be the first appliance. Are you willing to buy something cost you 10 bucks while it saves you 20 bucks?

thisisrobv 12y ago

How does a YC backed company create a video with audio that's clearly watermarked. Presumably they could afford the $17 license...

rdl 12y ago

Curious why they didn't go with Kickstarter for the BatteryBox. The product looks really interesting, and I think I'll order some.

tim333 12y ago

Their patent I believe: https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013142964A1

ulfw 12y ago

Somewhat odd to target a computer that already runs for 12hours to run 'another 12 hours' with a big bulky external battery pack. Would make more sense to target something like an iPhone or others that run way too short to last a day. Problem is: battery packs for those are a dime a dozen. I do wish them best of luck though!

alandarev 12y ago

Why the capacity sometimes goes higher on the graph as the battery ages? Can anyone explain, or is this just a marketing crap?

jacquesm 12y ago

Pre-ordering hardware that makes promises of substantial improvements over the status-quo that will only be testable by the buyer a few years down the line is a recipe for disaster. Do yourself a favour and hold on to your money until there are actual units that have been tested rigorously (as in, in an independent lab unaffiliated with the company) to see if the promises are delivered on.

JacobAldridge 12y ago
Would have been nice if TechCrunch did some testing / reporting, instead of accepting / repeating. Not that I'm surprised, just would have been nice in this area.

dsirijus 12y ago

Get a new industrial designer onboard. Yesterday. Seeing the thing, I'm inclined to believe that that "new" in previous sentence is superfluous. Plugging this into my MacBook Air would make me feel like getting a $20 prostitute. And paying her $200 afterwards nonetheless.

evck 12y ago

If this works, it seems pretty strange to build their own devices with it. With a patent on the methods they could make a fortune licensing the technology to Si companies. They would reach the market much quicker too. However, having worked on BMS systems for lithium batteries this sounds very fishy. Maybe they've hit on something spectacular, but it seriously looks like snake oil based on the info they've provided thus far.