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Why There Are No Girls In San Francisco
- johnrob 17y agoThat is spot on. Population-wise, SF men outnumber the women by something like 55%-45%. However, if you tried to estimate that number based on the nightlife scene, you'd arrive at something like 70%-30%. I think the psychological concept that the essay sites also explains the lack of girls in bars (which, for many guys, is a far more important stat than the population-wide one).
- lr 17y agoI don't know what bars you hand out in, but there are plenty of women (I prefer women to girls) in the bars/clubs I go to. You want to see beautiful women desperate to find a man, go to District (corner of Townsend and Ritch).
- nostrademons 17y agoStrictly mathematically, it's not hard for a population split of 55-45 to result in a singles split of 70-30. Say that 35% of males and 35% of females are in a (heterosexual, monogamous) relationship. By definition, the numbers will be equally balanced, so of the remaining 30% of the population, 20% (of the total) are male and 10% are female, for a 66-33 split. 70% in couples seems high to me, so there's probably another effect at work. It's the same effect that makes it really hard to find a job in a recession: normally you might have 5% of the population out of work and 5% positions waiting to be filled, but if you suddenly have 10% out of work and 1% of positions open (companies that lay off people generally aren't hiring), instead of 1 person for each open job you have 10 people looking for each open job, even though 90% of the population weren't affected at all.
- ajg1977 17y agoSomehow I suspect the guys who are getting the girls aren't at home writing blog posts about the subject.
- johnrob 17y agoI don't recall the author claiming he wasn't getting girls. He does, however, seem to be trying to form a logical argument.
- sfphotoarts 17y agoThe secret is to blog in a cafe with a CC (no, not the c compiler!) sticker on your macbook pro laptop.
- Eliezer 17y agoI believe the technical term for this is ad hominem. Is it even possible for an argument to be true if it subjects the author to a witty reply? Apparently the Internet would have us believe that all such arguments are a priori certain to be false.
- gjm11 17y agoEr, no, it's pointing out a selection bias which means that anyone inclined to take the existence of this person writing about "why there are no girls in SF" (plus, I guess, the apparent shortage of people writing about what a great place SF is for heterosexual men to find partners) as evidence that SF is (functionally) very short of women -- which, let's face it, lots of people would -- should think twice before doing so.
- dustineichler 17y agoRelationships are a distant priority here, work definitely comes first. Life suffers etc...
- lr 17y agoExactly! You got a huge population of men in the SF area who want to work 70-80 hours/week. This leaves the door wide open for the men who have time for a relationship. I have found that women in SF are desperate to find men that will make time for them.
- teeja 17y agoI wish I could tell all you guys working 70-80 hours the stories I've heard from 45-year-old guys who did that when they were your age. Short version: cut that out.
- branden 17y agoAs someone who is considering moving to San Francisco, this is terrifying. Please, can a local soothe me with a rebuttal?
- zaidf 17y ago1. If you're into Asian women(and may be they are into you), you'll feel like you've won the lottery by moving to SF. 2. If you're not, well, you'll learn to:)
- joez 17y agoI'd like to offer a corollary, if you are an Asian man... lots of Asian girls are only looking for white men... thusly lowering your pool. But San Francisco's women are beautiful and amazing. There are few other cities that compare. You may just need a bit more luck than elsewhere.
- californiaguy 17y ago> lots of Asian girls are only looking for white men This usually wears off around age 25 after these girls realize that the world is slightly more complicated than TV portrays it to be. Note that I'm talking about the ones who date only white guys, not the ones who are normal and will date any attractive guy of any race.
- FooBarWidget 17y agoHow's TV related to Asian women's preference for white males? (I'm Dutch so I don't know what kind of stuff you broadcast)
- strlen 17y agoYou know, what somewhat amused me is that lot of the people who complain about lack of women in Bay Area, generally completely ignore non-American women (Russian, Persian, Asian). I've heard lot of there are no women in {this company, this CS department}" when there clearly are. Otoh, it's also interesting why the gender gap is non-existant or is <b>the other direction</b> in former USSR and China/Taiwan/Korea (you could argue it's Communist legacy for USSR and China, but what about South Korea and Taiwan?). (Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant from the USSR and the person who has been introduced into was my mother. I remember visiting her work place and many of her coworkers were women too-- and this wasn't considered unusual in any form).
- zaidf 17y agoSF is outrightly depressing when it comes to girls! The numbers are just not comparable to a city like NYC or LA.
- ajg1977 17y agoNumbers? I myself like to focus on quality. I can't talk about NY, but having lived in LA for 5+ years I can safely say that it's a horrible place for either sex to seek out any form of lasting relationship. Of course if you love spending your evenings in bars buying drinks for willing girls under 25 (or at least who claim to be) then LA's a great place to live.
- zaidf 17y agoI am surprised you say that about LA. Though I haven't lived there, I have multiple friends that wouldn't trade LA for a thing! They are also not the relationship-types but do have stunning women around them whenever I meet them. As for buying drinks, you know, that depends on the individual's mojo;) I've personally never tasted alcohol so the question of buying someone else a drink is far off. But I get your point.
- ajg1977 17y agoOh I loved LA too for the first few years. It's a great place to live when you're in your twenties with some disposable income and aren't looking for anything too permanent. And yes, it has a bountiful supply of women who would be knockouts in any other town but are just average in LA. After a few years though I just found it got kinda old, repetitive and a little shallow. Ironically I now live in SF :)
- kqr2 17y agoFrom one of the article's references: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3318366/Wealth-is-key-for-marriage-study-claims.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3318366/Weal... Pedersen suggested that people will change many aspects of their behaviour as a knock-on effect of the competition induced by sex ratio fluctuations. For men, these include greater fidelity, commitment to careers, and increased investment in children when women are scarce. Is there evidence that men are also more committed to marriages in San Francisco? Are divorce rates lower?
- sfphotoarts 17y agothis is complete nonsense, SF is full of very beautiful women. After living here for many years, I'd respectfully disagree with this. The neighborhoods with the highest density (scientifically studied over a lifetime) are The Lower Haight and The Mission.
- johnrob 17y agoPlease specify which other cities you are comparing this to.
- jimboyoungblood 17y agoI would guess he is comparing to Mountain View or Sunnyvale.
- kqr2 17y agoI notice a lot of good looking women in shopping centers and malls, however, that isn't necessarily representative of the entire population.
- pavel_lishin 17y agoThe article didn't say there aren't any women. It just said they're not interested in us.
- rdouble 17y agoI lived in SF for years and think you're nuts. Completely nuts! The Lower Haight!?!?! The only explanation I have is that you've contracted the dating version of Stockholm Syndrome. Where are the beautiful women hanging out in the Lower Haight? Noc Noc? Peacock Lounge? What's your idea of beautiful? Janene Garafalo? The Lower Haight was the one neighborhood I could count on where I'd go into a bar and there would be literally no women. Even worse odds than the Castro or the tranny parts of the Tenderloin. Try it - go to Toronado any night of the week and count the number of women. Anyway, the best place to meet women is Union Square during lunch hour during the week. The people there are generally employed, take reasonable care of themselves, and aren't trying to live out some lame grungy hipster fantasy life straight out of 1993...
- lsb 17y agoAs a gay man in Boston, I'd be fascinated if someone revisited those numbers in a queer context: how do things change for bisexuals? Homosexuals? What's the effect of mixed genders in a bar? The common trend seems to just be packing more 21-35 year old men into a room, and I don't know how far that is from optimal.
- mynameishere 17y agoYou're asking what the gay scene is like in San Francisco?
- jimboyoungblood 17y agoI think he's asking what would happen if 10 extra gay guys showed up at the bar instead of 10 straight dudes.
- danielrhodes 17y agoHow would you measure that? Who is the cat and who is the mouse?
- jibiki 17y agoPerhaps, in environments where gay guys have lots of high status potential partners, they tend to hold out for more (so that it becomes harder for everyone to find a relationship.) But, uh, probably not.
- lsb 17y agoNo, I'm wondering, if you have 100 gays at a bar, what different demographics would add or detract from it. Cause if you have 10 more hot guys, there's nothing stopping them from dancing in a clique unconnected to anyone else, versus 10 ladies who probably didn't go out to hook up with each other at the end of the night. Are there different types of guys you could incentivize to show up, like Ladies' Night?
- 17y ago
- kqr2 17y agoIs there any explanation from game theory as to why a slight imbalance causes such an exaggerated effect? It makes sense that since there are more men, women get pickier, so paradoxically there appears to be less good men available to women. What does game theory predict in such a situation?
- californiaguy 17y agohttp://www.slate.com/id/2188684/ http://www.slate.com/id/2188684/ The eligible bachelor paradox.
- awt 17y agoThe Lower Peninsula is relatively devoid of Women. San Francisco is not.
- lr 17y agoI've had more time to think about this... This link is now the number 2 link on HN. A few days ago one of the top links was about how to survive on $36/month for food. You have to be kidding me, right? Sorry, but woman and marathon, multi-day coding sessions filled with noodles, beans, rice, oats and pb&j just don't mix.
- bretthoerner 17y agoExactly. Think about the kind of guy who starts a blog dedicated to the fact that there "aren't girls in San Francisco". Now find me a group of girls flocking to be in his presence.
- Goladus 17y agoIt's too bad, because he's clearly got a good sense of humor.
- idlewords 17y agoYou're assuming only guys live like this?
- jimboyoungblood 17y agoI think it's a pretty fair approximation.
- fauigerzigerk 17y agoMaybe that's true in San Francisco, but I have indeed found a woman who will eat what's left from my meal only to go back to her own multi-day coding session. Here's hoping that she's going to make us both rich and powerful as well ... one day... :)
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- gcheong 17y agoThis looks potentially promising: http://women20sf.eventbrite.com/ http://women20sf.eventbrite.com/
- paul9290 17y agoAlso why is there a lack of African American people there? Anyone ever been to a technology conference? I felt like I stepped into Harvard circa 1955.
- sheriff 17y agotech conferences != SF
- defen 17y agoYou just need to go across the Bay Bridge. I'm not sure how or when it happened but for some reason San Francisco is very white and Oakland is very black.
- coolnewtoy 17y agoHunter's point and the Filmore district are also heavily African-American. But when I was there during the 97-99 boom there was a noticeable lack of African Americans in tech and web companies.
- jjs 17y ago> Also why is there a lack of African American people there? This article attempts to explain it: http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0615/p02s04-usgn.html http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0615/p02s04-usgn.html
- rdouble 17y agoThe city essentially kicked African Americans out starting in the 1970s under the guise of redeveloping the Fillmore District. Since then, it's been a matter of economics. SF has the smallest % of African Americans of any major US city (6.5%). This is smaller than cities typically thought of as "white:" Minneapolis (17%), Seattle (9%) and Portland, Oregon. (7.9%). Even Portland, Maine has a higher percentage of African Americans (6.6%). As others have mentioned, Oakland is where African American people live in the Bay Area.
- aswanson 17y agoI remember reading an article posted here awhile back about Zuckerberg and some other young guys being accosted in a bar by a transvestite. I thought, "Geez, only in SF can a straight potential billionaire not get an old-fashioned hetero lap dance." Anecdotal, but I went for a few interviews in that place and it is definitely NOT the place to be for a single straight man in his 20s.
- jasonlbaptiste 17y agoThe valley, specifically Palo Alto is not that bad at all. Actually it's damn good. It's a college town, and Stanford girls are quite good looking. The bar scene is nice at Old Pro, Blue Chalk, etc. Sadly, facebook employees often overtake a lot of the old pro. If you're in the tech industry, then you probably spend most of your time out at "industry" events. There might occasionally be a couple of cute girls, but you're looking in the wrong place. I can't speak for SF itself, since I always hung out in the Valley. Dress well, get in shape, and be charismatic, as you'll actually be able to stand out above the plethora of anti-social bufoons. You're also probably passionate about what you do, so make sure that comes across as women seem to respect that too out there. This all comes from someone who now lives in Miami, where the women are supposed to be unbelievably attractive. They are, but i'll use the cliche and say looks aren't everything. Actually the women here are so dumb and pretentious that it's able to make supermodels become unattractive. The Valley has an awesome balance of looks and brains, so do not take that for granted.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- sutro 17y agowhytheauthorofwhytherearenogirlshasnogame.blogspot.com
- araneae 17y agoBecause females are less likely to be entrepreneurs and less likely to be programmers. You don't even need to have a whole blog about it.
- justin 17y agoGoing to a bar to meet women is stacking the deck against you in SF. The best place to go is yoga class. Plus, you'll be able to actually do something nice for your body at the same time.
- anigbrowl 17y agoComplete garbage. I is not hard to find an attractive lady in SF for either a date or a longer term relationship. Of course, it helps to be as sexy as I am. Seriously, though, it's not that hard. I usually only hear this complaint from guys who are looking to only date white women or suchlike Given that the city is around 50% Asian these days, one might want to consider branching out. that said, i've dated girls of every ethnicity within the last 15 years, though not since I met the outstandingly lucky * Mrs Browl. * What? She says she's happy about it. Most of the time.
- jlees 17y agoI enjoyed the HN comments far more than the article itself... For a while now I've been thinking I'd end up in SF or the Valley at some point over the next few years. I can't say dating ratios ever crossed my mind as a reason (not) to go. It doesn't exactly sound fun to be a woman in SF, so I guess I'd better spend more than a couple of weeks there and find out before I commit myself to meat markets and being a rarity...
- bitwize 17y agoNegative proof by counterexample. I met a girl in SF last month. Therefore, "there are no girls in San Francisco" is false. QED.
- rawr 17y agoBecause people like Zed Shaw move there?
- geebee 17y agoWhile it's tempting to refer to the "San Francisco Bay Area" as a single cultural/economic entity, it really isn't. The male/female ratios will vary considerably within this region, along with the economic base. I read an article a while back (which I could remember the link) that pointed out that as you move from south to north (ie., from southbay/San Jose to San Francisco), you gradually move from engineering/hard science to software to UI design to marketing/PR. There are major, substantial exceptions, of course, but as a general trend, I think it holds true. As you move from South to North on this continuum, the male/female ratio changes substantially as well. Obviously, the PR, advertising, and design firms in SF have a lot of women working at them. Law firms, especially the ones that are not patent-law oriented, also have a lot of women - as paralegals, secretaries, and lawyers. I'd also guess that there are more fashion/interior decorating type firms in SF than in San Jose (it's not New York, of course, but insofar as the Bay Area has an industry, it'll largely be in SF). SF does have tech/software companies, though I've heard (I can't support this, it's just conjecture) that they tend to be less hardcore tech than the peninsula. The mission bay campus of UCSF may bring a lot of biotech folks to SF - not sure how that will influence things. I've lived in SF, LA, San Diego, and New York. Because I grew up in SF, I don't have as good a sense of what it's like trying to "meet women", since I already had a large social network from high school and so forth. New York was the best (Manhattan) - girls would actually initiate conversations and give me their phone number. LA has lots of beautiful women, and it's a pretty good scene, but some (not all) women seemed to lose interest when they learned I wasn't a part of the entertainment industry (well, I was doing software for post production, but that counts as outside...) San Diego was the absolute worst - the ratio of men to women was so high, and the men were so aggressive, that the women seemed to almost shut down and go into a shell. I learned something here - women don't seem to have as good a time when the ratio gets too favorable for them. It's surprising, but it makes sense. Women actually do like to pursue men, but if they're surrounded by a 3-1 ratio of men to women, and the men are very aggressive, they get hit on ever five minutes by a guy who they aren't interested in, it becomes nearly impossible to "make yourself available." Maybe they see a guy they'd like to meet, but if they appear open to conversation, five other guys will pretty much rush in right away. So they shut down and lose all interest in talking with people, or just stop going out to those bars altogether. Nobody likes a bad ratio, but I've actually found that men and women are happiest closer to a 50-50 ratio.
- p_h 17y agoI've never lived in San Francisco, but it's no secret that tech centres like Silicon Valley have very few women. Not only that, but based on these comments it seems like most coders have given up on socializing with women! Surely this must negatively affect the product development of applications meant for the general public.