9 ms·
Middle class leaving San Francisco, census says
- codex 13y agoA net loss of 1500 individuals spread out over four years: in other words, almost nothing.
- e40 13y agoI can tell you that all the people that have moved into my East Bay neighborhood with good schools have been from SF. People with kids that can't handle the price for private schools and deal with the kid unfriendly nature of SF.
- sven98 13y agoYou mean the broken needles in the gutters, the people taking dumps on the sidewalk in broad daylight, hustlers trying to sell you crack and meth on every corner downtown, and the general ambient smell of piss? Come on, nothing builds character like that.
- dragonwriter 13y agoPeople -- particularly in the middle class -- moving from core cities to suburbs to raise children is hardly a new phenomenon, and hardly restricted to San Francisco.
- eweise 13y agoIts really the lottery system for the public schools that is the reason most of my friends with kids left SF. People buy houses in certain neighborhoods to guarantee which school their kids attend. Without that guarantee, there is not much incentive to live there.
- Fasebook 13y agoPretty clear that workers came to SF, worked and then left when they were done. Land value inflation worked as intended.
- w1ntermute 13y agoIt's amazing how, in a city full of so many supposedly socially conscious people, the government has been able to allow things to get so bad for the middle class.
- kaonashi 13y agoThe government can accommodate (or fail to), but most of the driving factors here originate from the private sector.
- w1ntermute 13y agoIt is the government's failure to reform zoning laws and its failure to create efficient public transit that are the basic problems here. For those with children, the school system is also subpar. The private sector hasn't done anything wrong. In fact, the people of San Francisco and their government should be grateful that, in such dismal economic times, the tech industry has chosen to locate itself in a jurisdiction so viscerally hostile to the private sector. Without tech, San Francisco might have become a Detroit with nicer weather (a situation that the hipsters would no doubt have thoroughly enjoyed).
- spikels 13y agoBullshit! The private sector is the same in the places the SF middle class are moving to. It's the selfish, short sighted SF government that's causing this.
- kaonashi 13y agoTech companies dumping tons of money into the real estate market is _not_ a government generated problem.
- spikels 13y agoWow! Hiring people and paying them well is a problem? SF has severely restricted supply for decades with some of the most restrictive planning and building codes in the US. In SF anyone can force a hearing on a building permit - after planning review, neighbor notice, hearings appeals, etc. This is unheard of anywhere else and is why it takes years to build new housing. Then there is the rent control ordinance that stopped new apartment building for a decade and keeps thousands of units vacant today.
- yeukhon 13y agoThe data doesn't show why they are leaving. Renters or land owners? When they count individuals, what is the number of couple leaving SF?
- saalweachter 13y agoOnce again, the income range quoted in the article seems to correspond to the Thompson & Hickey 2005 definition of "Lower middle class". Mostly likely the people moving in to replace the displayed Lower-middle-classers are Upper-middle-classers making $75,000-$250,000, with only a sprinkling of Upper-classers (aka the 1%). So once again pitting the middle against itself... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_middle_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_middle_class)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- sillysaurus2 13y ago$75k in San Fran isn't upper middle class.
- 1945 13y agoThat's for sure. Pulling a figure out of thin air, but with an understanding of the cost of living (I live in the area), I'd say upper-middle begins at around $150+.
- entendre 13y agoHave fun commuting from Oakland or living with 4 bros on 100k. Middle class is, "can I have a kid comfortably?"
- davidjnelson 13y agoExactly. Middle class in San Francisco is $250k-$500k. These type of articles are so out of touch with the reality on the ground it's ridiculous. 1 bedroom apartments with a washer and dryer, no mold, no neighbors cigarette smoke, and two parking spots _start_ at $4k per month. And that's after taxes.
- 3pt14159 13y agoSome areas are going to be more dense with upper middle class than other. Some people are going to earn more than others. If San Fran hadn't stopped itself from growing, it would have plenty of room for both the upper and lower middle class, like Toronto does. Economics isn't a war between the haves and the have nots, it's a manner to allocate resources. We should be focused on increasing production and efficiency, not on making sure everyone in life is equal. That will never happen.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- anovikov 13y agoI think it's some definition of 'middle class' coming from the 1970s and never inflation-adjusted since then. A person making $35K is anything but a middle class in every place i seen, let alone Silicon Valley. Maybe, a lower middle in totally clapped out East European countries like Ukraine.
- patio11 13y ago$35k is solidly middle class in Japan (corresponds pretty much exactly to the expected income of a salaryman and his wife during their family's formative years) and in wide swathes of the US, particularly non-metro areas. Representative occupations would include, e.g., early-career public school teachers, public servants, car salesmen, police officers, etc, etc.
- icelancer 13y ago$35K is doing just fine in Cleveland, OH.
- waterlesscloud 13y agoYou can live middle-classly on 40-60k in most of America still. Techies seem to be anxious to claim middle-class status, but if you're in a 6-figure household family, you're still pushing upper class compared to nearly anywhere. And the statistical fact is that if you're $250 k in the US in household income, you are in fact the 1%.
- patio11 13y agoAbout $400k, actually.
- waterlesscloud 13y agoYeah, you're right. $250 k would only put you in the top 2.32% in 2011. Let's be absolutely clear here. A six figure household income puts you in the top 20% of the US. You are not middle class. You are in fact upper class.
- jprinzo 13y agoWhat's a middle class?