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Blockchain’s Response to Apple

76 points by Kenan 13y ago

mat1911 13y ago
buy android
- joaorj 13y ago
  In my opinion anyone that uses apple's products must know that at any moment, apple can decide unilaterally that the user should not use some app / functionality. If you don't like that you probably aren't using apple products already.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    Google can and has done the same thing.
    - ac29 13y ago
      You dont have to use google's app store, I have plenty of apps from other sources.
ossreality 13y ago
Two choices: 1. Whine more about an issue that has been known and discussed ad nauseum for the past 5 years. 2. Stop buying locked down closed-wall products. You let me know which is more effective.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
I'm sure they would be ok with it if you paid Apple 1/3 of any Bitcoin transaction you made through it. Without doing so you create a huge hole in their app revenue tax.
- robzyb 13y ago
  No they wouldn't. Profiting from Bitcoin transfers is a regulatory nightmare. This is because there are no controls to minimise the risk that Bitcoin is being used for money laundering.
  - maaku 13y ago
    There are also no controls to minimise the risk that in-app purchases are being used for money laundering.
    - tzs 13y ago
      I thought that for money laundering to work you had to purchases with the dirty money items that can be sold for clean money, or exchanged for items that can be sold for clean money (and you also want the transactions on one or preferably both ends to be hard to trace). What are some examples of in-app purchases that would be good for this kind of thing?
      - maaku 13y ago
        Transferable game items, for example.
  - ye 13y ago
    The dumb money laundering argument. If you seriously think regulators care about money laundering, ask yourself why HSBC laundered hundreds of billions of drug cartel dollars, got a slap on the wrist and nobody went to jail. Money laundering is the new "think of the children" or "terrorists!" bullshit.
    - threeseed 13y ago
      It's a legitimate argument. Regulators DO care about money laundering they have just been completely incompetent at regulating it.
    - robzyb 13y ago
      > If you seriously think regulators care about money laundering I think that WE should care about money laundering. I think that WE should care about the HSBC situation. And consequently I think that everyone should care about the potential for Bitcoin to be used for money laundering.
- wmf 13y ago
  Does apple take 1/3 of every transaction through banking apps?
  - letstryagain 13y ago
    If Apple allows banking apps they should allow Bitcoin apps, I don't see the problem.
ceejayoz 13y ago
> The only thing that has changed is that bitcoin has become competitive to Apple’s own payment system. Well, that, and a bunch of media, law enforcement, and legislative attention. > Bitcoin’s use for international payments from family members sending money home to support entire communities in the developing world and for charity fundraising and fund distribution will be severely affected by this decision. Can't they just use their web browser?
- pdx6 13y ago
  > Well, that, and a bunch of media, law enforcement, and legislative attention. Normal currencies and online currencies suffer from these same 3 issues though.
  - meepmorp 13y ago
    Normal currencies are backed by sovereign governments, are controlled by regulatory regimes, and don't get pitched as a way of anonymizing transactions/avoiding government interference in shady dealings.
    - pdx6 13y ago
      Cash is used anonymously and for shady dealings too. Compare this to the blockchain, which is public, not anonymous. There is no rule that says a currency has to be backed by a government, since people have traded without government backed currency since the dawn of man.
valarauca1 13y ago
Those first to paragraphs are very harsh. Which I find funny because some their harsher lawsuits were started by Jobs, who's famously quoted in their first paragraph (well he wrote it not said it).
sekasi 13y ago
Apple will fight all day and all night to maintain control of money on their app store. The way they push their weight around against anything that tries to do anything outside their walled garden is nothing short of disgusting.
- meepmorp 13y ago
  > The way they push their weight around against anything that tries to do anything outside their walled garden is nothing short of disgusting. This is capitalism. They provide services that they expect you to use, and if you want to do business on the platform they control, you play by their rules. If you don't like it, you're free to leave.
colinbartlett 13y ago
What's the best way to make noise about this? Sure, I can switch to Android but A) I don't really want to do that and B) losing a handful of Bitcoin enthusiasts to another platform is really not going to dent Apple in any way.
- freyrs3 13y ago
  The only rational response is to weigh the benefits of developing for and using the iOS ecosystem with your convictions about general purpose computing. If you don't think Apple shouldn't have this kind of power then don't use their products and don't support the Mac ecosystem.
- ye 13y ago
  Switch to Android. It will make a dent. Bitcoin people are not a random demographic, they are early adopters, many are entrepreneurs, most are young.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    Any "dent" would be eclipsed by Apple running another TV ad in China or India. I doubt they could care less.
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      It's not one dent that makes a difference. But a thousand little dents do make a difference.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    I don't think Apple cares all that much about losing early adopters at this stage, and the number of folks willing to switch platform over Bitcoin wallet apps isn't going to be the slightest bit noticeable.
    - sentenza 13y ago
      I'm no friend of Bitcoin, but won't disregarding early adopters lead them one step closer to becoming Microsoft?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
niccary 13y ago
Let's build amazing products they can't ban. On Android. On browsers. Everywhere.
freyrs3 13y ago
This was unexpected? How is not naive to expect a corporation to remove any software when it infringes on their bottomline. If you buy into developing software for this corporate-controlled walled garden of any kind you set yourself up for this. It's 2014, we've had 5 years of this kind of behavior from Apple and people still seem surprised by this fact.
- thethimble 13y ago
  I'm surprised by the outrage. Apple's position here is logical - banning bitcoin wallet apps does not impact the vast majority of its userbase while taking a strong stance in preserving its payments monopoly. Corporations are not benevolent but are rational agents acting in their best interest.
  - barce 13y ago
    By that logic they should ban Paypal, Dwolla, Gyft, Gowallet, Visa, and any other payment app. They clearly haven't, and I'm not sure how Bitcoin apps are any different. The point is they aren't acting rationally.
    - freyrs3 13y ago
      And that's because those companies have made deals with Apple behind closed doors that your average app developer can't leverage. It's rational in the sense that it serves their interests.
      - threeseed 13y ago
        Care to provide evidence of this ? I led the mobile development effort for a very large international bank which was doing peer-peer payments. We didn't make any special deals and were subject to the same conditions as everyone else.
        jasonlotito 13y ago
        One only need to make a payment through Fandango's iOS app and see that you can use PayPal to see that Apple's rules aren't the same for everyone.
droob 13y ago
Departed from the reality the rest of us share with "Apple attempted to strike a devastating blow to the bitcoin ecosystem"
madeofpalk 13y ago
Don't mistake to maliciousness what can be attributed to naievity. The reason Apple has issues with other payment methods on their App Store is that they can't control them. Meaning, they can't ensure the user experiance they would like to, and when things go wrong, they can't fix it. Apple's userbase is so large and diverse now that users blame things on Apple that shouldnt (e.g. they loose money through bitcoin they used with an iPhone app, Apple gets blamed ). This is their way of minimising that.
- higherpurpose 13y ago
  Yeah right. Bitcoin is a threat to payment systems. Apple intends to launch its own payment system soon (for more than just apps). It's as simple as that. But of course they would use an excuse like "it's for your own good". That's what all dictators say, too.
jsz0 13y ago
Apple isn't even remotely close to having a monopoly in the SmartPhone market. That's such a non-sense thing to say in an official statement. My perception of block chain.info is now a company that lies / misrepresents the truth on purpose. Good work guys.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
beedogs 13y ago
Apple's a pretty terrible company. This should've been expected.

76 points by Kenan 13y ago

mat1911 13y ago

buy android

joaorj 13y ago
In my opinion anyone that uses apple's products must know that at any moment, apple can decide unilaterally that the user should not use some app / functionality. If you don't like that you probably aren't using apple products already.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  Google can and has done the same thing.
  - ac29 13y ago
    You dont have to use google's app store, I have plenty of apps from other sources.

ossreality 13y ago

Two choices: 1. Whine more about an issue that has been known and discussed ad nauseum for the past 5 years. 2. Stop buying locked down closed-wall products. You let me know which is more effective.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

I'm sure they would be ok with it if you paid Apple 1/3 of any Bitcoin transaction you made through it. Without doing so you create a huge hole in their app revenue tax.

robzyb 13y ago
No they wouldn't. Profiting from Bitcoin transfers is a regulatory nightmare. This is because there are no controls to minimise the risk that Bitcoin is being used for money laundering.
- maaku 13y ago
  There are also no controls to minimise the risk that in-app purchases are being used for money laundering.
  - tzs 13y ago
    I thought that for money laundering to work you had to purchases with the dirty money items that can be sold for clean money, or exchanged for items that can be sold for clean money (and you also want the transactions on one or preferably both ends to be hard to trace). What are some examples of in-app purchases that would be good for this kind of thing?
    - maaku 13y ago
      Transferable game items, for example.
- ye 13y ago
  The dumb money laundering argument. If you seriously think regulators care about money laundering, ask yourself why HSBC laundered hundreds of billions of drug cartel dollars, got a slap on the wrist and nobody went to jail. Money laundering is the new "think of the children" or "terrorists!" bullshit.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    It's a legitimate argument. Regulators DO care about money laundering they have just been completely incompetent at regulating it.
  - robzyb 13y ago
    > If you seriously think regulators care about money laundering I think that WE should care about money laundering. I think that WE should care about the HSBC situation. And consequently I think that everyone should care about the potential for Bitcoin to be used for money laundering.
wmf 13y ago
Does apple take 1/3 of every transaction through banking apps?
- letstryagain 13y ago
  If Apple allows banking apps they should allow Bitcoin apps, I don't see the problem.

ceejayoz 13y ago

> The only thing that has changed is that bitcoin has become competitive to Apple’s own payment system. Well, that, and a bunch of media, law enforcement, and legislative attention. > Bitcoin’s use for international payments from family members sending money home to support entire communities in the developing world and for charity fundraising and fund distribution will be severely affected by this decision. Can't they just use their web browser?

pdx6 13y ago
> Well, that, and a bunch of media, law enforcement, and legislative attention. Normal currencies and online currencies suffer from these same 3 issues though.
- meepmorp 13y ago
  Normal currencies are backed by sovereign governments, are controlled by regulatory regimes, and don't get pitched as a way of anonymizing transactions/avoiding government interference in shady dealings.
  - pdx6 13y ago
    Cash is used anonymously and for shady dealings too. Compare this to the blockchain, which is public, not anonymous. There is no rule that says a currency has to be backed by a government, since people have traded without government backed currency since the dawn of man.

valarauca1 13y ago

Those first to paragraphs are very harsh. Which I find funny because some their harsher lawsuits were started by Jobs, who's famously quoted in their first paragraph (well he wrote it not said it).

sekasi 13y ago

Apple will fight all day and all night to maintain control of money on their app store. The way they push their weight around against anything that tries to do anything outside their walled garden is nothing short of disgusting.

meepmorp 13y ago
> The way they push their weight around against anything that tries to do anything outside their walled garden is nothing short of disgusting. This is capitalism. They provide services that they expect you to use, and if you want to do business on the platform they control, you play by their rules. If you don't like it, you're free to leave.

colinbartlett 13y ago

What's the best way to make noise about this? Sure, I can switch to Android but A) I don't really want to do that and B) losing a handful of Bitcoin enthusiasts to another platform is really not going to dent Apple in any way.

freyrs3 13y ago
The only rational response is to weigh the benefits of developing for and using the iOS ecosystem with your convictions about general purpose computing. If you don't think Apple shouldn't have this kind of power then don't use their products and don't support the Mac ecosystem.
ye 13y ago
Switch to Android. It will make a dent. Bitcoin people are not a random demographic, they are early adopters, many are entrepreneurs, most are young.
- threeseed 13y ago
  Any "dent" would be eclipsed by Apple running another TV ad in China or India. I doubt they could care less.
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    It's not one dent that makes a difference. But a thousand little dents do make a difference.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  I don't think Apple cares all that much about losing early adopters at this stage, and the number of folks willing to switch platform over Bitcoin wallet apps isn't going to be the slightest bit noticeable.
  - sentenza 13y ago
    I'm no friend of Bitcoin, but won't disregarding early adopters lead them one step closer to becoming Microsoft?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

niccary 13y ago

Let's build amazing products they can't ban. On Android. On browsers. Everywhere.

freyrs3 13y ago

This was unexpected? How is not naive to expect a corporation to remove any software when it infringes on their bottomline. If you buy into developing software for this corporate-controlled walled garden of any kind you set yourself up for this. It's 2014, we've had 5 years of this kind of behavior from Apple and people still seem surprised by this fact.

thethimble 13y ago
I'm surprised by the outrage. Apple's position here is logical - banning bitcoin wallet apps does not impact the vast majority of its userbase while taking a strong stance in preserving its payments monopoly. Corporations are not benevolent but are rational agents acting in their best interest.
- barce 13y ago
  By that logic they should ban Paypal, Dwolla, Gyft, Gowallet, Visa, and any other payment app. They clearly haven't, and I'm not sure how Bitcoin apps are any different. The point is they aren't acting rationally.
  - freyrs3 13y ago
    And that's because those companies have made deals with Apple behind closed doors that your average app developer can't leverage. It's rational in the sense that it serves their interests.
    - threeseed 13y ago
      Care to provide evidence of this ? I led the mobile development effort for a very large international bank which was doing peer-peer payments. We didn't make any special deals and were subject to the same conditions as everyone else.
      - jasonlotito 13y ago
        One only need to make a payment through Fandango's iOS app and see that you can use PayPal to see that Apple's rules aren't the same for everyone.

droob 13y ago

Departed from the reality the rest of us share with "Apple attempted to strike a devastating blow to the bitcoin ecosystem"

madeofpalk 13y ago

Don't mistake to maliciousness what can be attributed to naievity. The reason Apple has issues with other payment methods on their App Store is that they can't control them. Meaning, they can't ensure the user experiance they would like to, and when things go wrong, they can't fix it. Apple's userbase is so large and diverse now that users blame things on Apple that shouldnt (e.g. they loose money through bitcoin they used with an iPhone app, Apple gets blamed ). This is their way of minimising that.

higherpurpose 13y ago
Yeah right. Bitcoin is a threat to payment systems. Apple intends to launch its own payment system soon (for more than just apps). It's as simple as that. But of course they would use an excuse like "it's for your own good". That's what all dictators say, too.

jsz0 13y ago

Apple isn't even remotely close to having a monopoly in the SmartPhone market. That's such a non-sense thing to say in an official statement. My perception of block chain.info is now a company that lies / misrepresents the truth on purpose. Good work guys.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

beedogs 13y ago

Apple's a pretty terrible company. This should've been expected.