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I find Apple so incredibly impressive. They target a few key features with every release, absolutely nail those features, and sell the new products perfectly. T

I find Apple so incredibly impressive. They target a few key features with every release, absolutely nail those features, and sell the new products perfectly. Their product line-ups and messages are constantly evolving, but slowly, determinedly. And so they achieve things no other company seems capable of - like an unlocking mechanism that is going to be market-defining. Why? Because when the other companies become jealous and try and come up with their own versions, they'll rush and release something half-baked, and out of the confusion only Apple's solution will speak to consumers. Apple is so far ahead of the competition it's ridiculous - maybe Google can compete in the medium-term, I'm not sure. Apple's confidence and poise is awe-inspiring.

ajross 13y ago
Not responding to the fawning per se, but specifically the "unlocking mechanism that is going to be market-defining": face unlock seems undeniably cooler still, works reasonably well, has been shipping on all Android phones for nearly two years now, yet certainly hasn't "defined" any markets. How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? Like face unlock, it's at best a cute trick. Apple's past genius has been about finding new fundamental ways to use technology. Slightly easier protection against spousal snooping doesn't qualify, sorry.
- pbreit 13y ago
  Face Unlock doesn't work very well, is less secure and much more difficult. This is hardly a "cute trick". We are going to see the rapid expansion of fingerprints in place of passwords and it is going to be pretty neat.
  - rurounijones 13y ago
    I sincerely hope not since, as a recent HN submission pointed out, you [EDIT] possibly [/EDIT] lose all 5th amendment protections in the US when your device is no longer protected by "something you know" "As well as" == fine "Instead of" == run!
    - balbaugh 13y ago
      This is a possibility, not a definite. The courts will have to decide.
    - sbuk 13y ago
      Why wasn't this a problem 10 years ago when fingerprint scanners were introduced to desktop and then laptop computers?
      - rurounijones 13y ago
        Good question, not a clue but anecdotally I have never seen a finger-print scanner enabled computer that didn't use it as part of a two-factor auth as well as password in a corporate environment. The cynical part of me thinks that the proliferation of mobile devices + the close proximity of these new devices to danger (danger being people who would quite like you to give them access at every opportunity it seems. e.g. employees of an increasingly privacy-hostile government, such as the police) in the hands of users who don't know the implications is the biggest change/problem.
  - sanswork 13y ago
    The problem with fingerprints is you can only change your password 10 times and faking them at readers has been easy since at least 2001(Including the ones doing heat detection and ridge depth checking).
- sami36 13y ago
  "works reasonably well" It doesn't.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Android's face-unlock, while also slow, is easily defeated: http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/08/03/android-jelly-beans-face-unlock-liveness-check-circumvented-with-simple-photo-editing/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/08/03/android-jelly-beans-...
  - ajross 13y ago
    It's a camera taking a picture, of course it can be defeated. It's a good thing the fingerprint scanner isn't... wait. These things are toys. If you expect meaningful security from any of them, you've been fooled by marketing.
    - ddinh 13y ago
      The fingerprint sensor is not an optical device. It's a capacitive device, so it will take a bit more to fool than a photo. See page 8 of the review: Touch ID is a capacitive fingerprint sensor embedded behind a sapphire crystal cover. The sensor works by forming a capacitor with your finger/thumb. The sensor applies a voltage to one plate of a capacitor, using your finger as the other plate. The resulting electric field between your dermis (layer right below your outward facing skin) and the Touch ID sensor maps out the ridges and valleys of your fingerprint.
    - bdcravens 13y ago
      The fingerprint scanner uses RF to look at the layer of cells below the outermost layer of dead cells, so it's doing far more than taking a photo. (That's been covered in recent days on HN)
      - daliusd 13y ago
        That's good to know that Mafia will kill me after unlocking my phone not before :)
        patrickg 13y ago
        They just need your thumb...
- corporalagumbo 13y ago
  It's all about execution. When Android manufacturers make these "innovations," by and large they're sloppily implemented and poorly communicated. They're generally part of dozens of features that companies like Samsung try to boast about - so the net result is that consumers don't know what to pay attention to, they aren't inspired to feel lust for the product or any of its particular features, and so the product becomes just one more indistinct phone on the scrapheap. Whereas Apple focuses on a few core features to improve on and communicate with each phone, and they're overwhelmingly cautious - like only integrating Touch ID with a few spots of the phone at first. But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire product lust to the degree they can.
  - bentcorner 13y ago
    > But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire product lust to the degree they can. While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. How much would you pay for Touch ID? It offers little security benefit, only allowing you to log in a tiny bit faster. I can log in with my passcode fairly quickly and often without even looking at the screen. Maybe $5? $10 at a stretch. Definitely not worth getting locked into Apple's platform for another generation. Edit: It will be extremely telling of the politics of touch ID internally within apple when we see the uptake of this stuff on non-iPhone hardware. Does the entire company believe in this technology? Will we see it on the iPad, iPad Mini? On Macbooks? Once we see deeper integration of touch ID across the rest of Apple's hardware devices and software services would a moat start being formed, but it would require a stern guiding hand within Apple to make it happen.
    - gfodor 13y ago
      > While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. Uh, how many times a day do you perform some type of authentication of your identity? I have a feeling this will be one of those foot-in-mouth statements.
- gareim 13y ago
  Having used face unlock, it's really gimmicky. I turned that off right away. It could be a good idea in the future but, like with Samsung's hands-free gestures, right now I'd have to spend too much time aligning my face and waiting and hoping that it was going to work. Touch ID takes what you would have done anyways (thumb on home button to wake and then type in PIN) and makes it even faster. Now you still put your thumb on and eliminate the typing pin part. I haven't used Touch ID yet but I wake my phone a lot during the day, so this seems like a nice (but not absolutely necessary) feature for me. Something small that makes the experience that much better.
  - barrkel 13y ago
    I use face unlock on my Nexus 7. Not gimmicky at all for a device I pick up maybe 3 times a week, in good light. For a phone, it's a poor fit. Variance in light levels is too high. Fingerprint login is something I've had on my laptop for what seems like a decade. It's a gimmick there. But I anticipate that fingerprint unlock could be about as good as face unlock. It has the advantage of working in the dark.
    - deleted 13y ago
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  - devx 13y ago
    You wouldn't have looked at the device anyway?
    - Terretta 13y ago
      > You wouldn't have looked at the device anyway? I have face unlock turned on, and so apparently, no, the natural way of picking it up doesn't perfectly center my mug. Net effect is having waited however long to try to center and recognize my face, I end up having to realize it didn't work, so an exception case action is needed, and type in a pin and enter. The implementation is unfortunate.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      Not like a vanity mirror. I, for one, open the phone and look at it a slight angle, not with the camera centered on my face as if I'm about to take a selfie.
- planb 13y ago
  > Not responding to the fawning per se, but specifically the "unlocking mechanism that is going to be market-defining": face unlock seems undeniably cooler still, works reasonably well, has been shipping on all Android phones for nearly two years now, yet certainly hasn't "defined" any markets. See, that's exactly what the OP means. I tried to use face unlock on my Nexus 7 - it's just noot good enough. Too slow, too unreliable, especially in bad light conditions. I obviously haven't had the change to play with the iPhone 5s yet, but I'm quite confident that after getting used to keeping the thumb on the home button after turning it on, you won't event notice the fingerprint scanner.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- terapixel 13y ago
  >> How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? Quoting from the article: "Apple's Touch ID was the biggest surprise for me. I found it very well executed and a nice part of the overall experience. When between the 5s and the 5/5c, I immediately miss Touch ID." Coming from someone as respectable as Anand, I would call that reasonable grounds to call TouchID "meaningfully better". Maybe you can point to something similar for face unlock?
- psteinweber 13y ago
  With the new keychain syncing in iOS7, the "Touch ID" is only one small step away of making typing passwords unnecessary. That's big!
- Steko 13y ago
  The fingerprint scanner isn't just a phone unlocking mechanism. It's an entire mobile identity solution.
- Tloewald 13y ago
  Wasn't face unlock spoofed the day of release by people using crummy printed photos?
- flyosity 13y ago
  I remember when two of my friends got Android phones that were face unlockable. First thing we did was hold up an iPhone with a picture of their face to it and it worked to unlock the phone! We tried this a bunch of times and it worked every time. I don't know if the technology still sucks like it did about a year ago but I have a feeling that Touch ID will not be foiled as easily.
  - megablast 13y ago
    To be fair, the technology doesn't have to be completely safe, it just has to be good enough. It probably is good enough, for those who don't even use a code.
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    They updated it to check for a blink, but even the android phones that had a fingerprint scanner a few years ago, and made by the same company Apple later bought, isn't getting any respect so clearly any non-Apple approved security engineering decisions are declasse.
    - Someone 13y ago
      Not necessarily. Technology can go from 'gimmick' to 'wow' in a few years. For example, faster CPUs or improved software may have decreased both the false positive and true negative probabilities. I don't know whether that applies here, though. I have no experience with either the 'old' and the 'current' technology, and this review does not give much info, either.
    - Bud 13y ago
      More trolling from you, just like elsewhere in this thread. As you are no doubt well-aware, Apple's fingerprint scanner is not at all the same technology as the Android phones of the last few years, which all, without exception, use the type of sensor you must swipe your finger across. These are less reliable, less fast in recognition, and less secure.
      - deleted 13y ago
- felipeerias 13y ago
  "Slightly easier protection against spousal snooping doesn't qualify" It is about far more than that: it is about a new payment system, both more secure and more convenient. If that doesn't seem ambitious enough for you, I don't know what would. You wouldn't trust face recognition to allow payments on stores or the Internet. Touch ID is designed so you can trust it, down to the separate secure storage for your fingerprint data. It starts with being able to use your fingerprint to authorise payments at the App and iTunes Stores, and escalates from there.
- evilduck 13y ago
  How does this "protections against spousal snooping" joke of an argument not apply 100% equally to your "undeniably cooler" face unlock? Both have PIN fallbacks anyways.
- leoc 13y ago
  Not to bag on the iPhone's fingerprint detection in general - it looks to be impressive to me, in fact - but one thing it probably won't do very effectively is protect you from your spouse, or anyone else who has access to your hands while you sleep. The same risk will be present during overnight stays in police cells, probably.
- rayiner 13y ago
  How do you use face unlock while glancing at your phone from the corner of your eye? I think it's these sorts of practical considerations that really make Apple products special. I feel like there is someone at Apple thinking through what happens when a dad carrying a baby gets a phone call. I don't feel like that's the case with say Samsung.
- amatheus 13y ago
  I think the key here is "works reasonably well". Nothing at this level will be as market-defining as "works perfectly" which is what Apple aims.
- MaysonL 13y ago
  How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? From the review: "When [moving] between the 5s and the 5/5c, I immediately miss Touch ID."
- mmhd 13y ago
  You're not seeing the big picture. Touch ID isn't just another gimmicky feature, it's something Apple spend a lot of money on. They acquired the company that made the technology, and improved it in a way only Apple could. Today it's a method to unlock your device, but there is no way that this is all Apple wants it to do. The possibilities are endless. Imagine not having to put your password into another website, instead you just touch the home button. Making a purchase on iTunes? Use the scanner instead of the password, etc. But that's not all. This could easily be used in a retail environment, where a prompt on your screen shows up and says "Buy foobar for $5.99?". Touch ID does the rest.
bitserf 13y ago
Its their discipline that impresses me: How much they are willing to play the long game, and take short term hits to do it. While getting hammered by Wall Street and the press for not innovating, they stick to their guns and keep evolving in incremental steps, and laying the ground for the innovation they want to do in the future. For example, current iPhone battery life isn't the greatest compared to some of the larger phones out there that are packing much more battery. But they keep making small efficiency improvements, over and over, so that if (when?) release a device with a larger battery, it will be like the MacBook Air situation, where the MBA gets staggering battery life on the next hardware iteration compared to competitors that have just adequate battery life, basically being carried by the hardware. I imagine the larger display is a similar situation, they're not happy with some compromise they'd have to make to produce a display of the larger size, whereas competitors are happy to pump something out that is better by some metric (PPI, size), but has adverse effects (battery life, color oversaturation, artifacting). I think Google has the ability to continue competing with them if they remain focused. I have my doubts about any of the other Android manufacturers, though Xiaomi could be interesting in the future, due to their focus on services.
- corporalagumbo 13y ago
  Yes, discipline is a great word for it. Against a sea of nay-sayers and critics they keep their composure and stay focused on the long-term. The result is that their competitors blow their opportunities by rushing, and squander any stature. Apple remains in total control of the industry.
  - rednukleus 13y ago
    > Apple remains in total control of the industry. This is a nice phone, but I'm sorry - if you think Apple "remains in total control of the industry" with sub 20% marketshare and shrinking you are delusional. Whatever you may think of the theorerical advantages that Apple has, its not working for them outside of the US.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
jemeshsu 13y ago
Would be great if there is insider info on the process Apple made their decisions on what features to put into new product. It definitely not just marketing driven, but a mix that includes the technical and supply chain. Material for a book.
- Gustomaximus 13y ago
  From what I heard the fingerprint reader is partially enterprise driven. Apple are doing everything to ensure maximum security on devices so they can replace BlackBerry and have a strong USP against Android in enterprise sales.
pedalpete 13y ago
I think you've got some selective bias here (you couldn't tell by your writing :)), I see two things happening here. Keep in mind, I think TouchID is a great feature, but... 1)Minor improvements get fawned over and made to seem like such a life-changing massive improvement and Apple fans gloat about how Apple is the best because of x, often when other manufacturers have had the same feature/capabilities for a long time. Doesn't matter, now Apple has it, it just sucked before. 2)Apple actually seems to regularly release just about as many new features/capabilities as the next guy, but then focuses in on the things that it's fan base promotes and is excited about, and that becomes a feedback loop regarding the 'few key features'. There was a tag-cloud image from the keynote that listed all the new stuff, and most of it you'll never hear about again. It isn't the focus on key features in every release, it's you, deciding what features are key and then telling your friends all about them, and then Apple also amplifying your message. If people latched onto iBeacons, we'd be reading about that non-stop now. The difference (and where you're correct) is that Apple focuses on these features vs. Samsung with the S4 commercial that tries to show you everything and you end up not remembering any of them. Contrast that with the MotoX ads (very well done), which are still a bit scatter-shod, but much more focused. Question for you though, what's with the comment about "Google competing in the medium-term"?? I think you're more confident about Apple then they are ;)
- acqq 13y ago
  other manufacturers have had the same feature/capabilities for a long time No they haven't, nobody had such a fingerprint reader in the phone, all others (specifically I know of only one at the moment, do write if you know more) are "slide you finger, not too fast, not too slow, don't press the side, oops not good enough, slide it again." Having used such readers, I know they are really annoying. Not the one on iPhone 5S. You press the finger not having to care about the angle and that's it. Compared to the slide ones that reject your whole slide because it was a little to the left or to the right and where only one slide direction is allowed and it takes exact time, iPhone's is pure magic. "Having something" is not "we can write it on the spec sheet even if it's unusable."
  - myko 13y ago
pavanky 13y ago
Motorola Atrix shipped with fingerprint scanning back in 2011. The reason any other device doesn't have that feature ? Apple bought the company that made the scanners and stopped all further support. This even killed support for new android versions on the Atrix. They then took 2 years to implement it on one of their devices. Also having not used the iphone 5s, you can not blindly say the solution will be market defining or very secure. Any technology like this will consistently work. Your phone will most likely ship with a backup security system that will be used when the phone can't match the finger prints. What would that mean ? Any random person can exceed the number of tries with finger print unlock and then go to the back up system that is no more secure than existing solutions. > Apple is so far ahead of the competition it's ridiculous - maybe Google can compete in the medium-term, I'm not sure This line just reeks of Apple fan boyism. There is literally nothing on the ios now that is ahead of android. Infact for the last couple of releases ios has been catching up with android (notifications, quick settings etc). It still does not have intents, widgets, default apps that can be replaced. But yes, live inside your own bubble and drool at everything apple.
- gareim 13y ago
  The fingerprint scanner on the Atrix was of the primitive kind, where you have to swipe your thumb and hope it scanned. Half the time it didn't. The reason it took Apple 2 years to implement it was because they waited for a better solution to come up. Their implementation is less of a hassle than previous fingerprint scanners were for consumer devices. This is where Apple shines: execution.
badman_ting 13y ago
I really am amazed to see this comment on Hacker News. I don't know what else to say.
pkulak 13y ago
Let's not get carried away. Apple makes the best hardware. They always have, and probably always will. But there's a lot more to a phone than the hardware. Lots of people genuinely prefer the way Android does things and I don't think Apple will ever figure out how to do cloud services properly.

ajross 13y ago

Not responding to the fawning per se, but specifically the "unlocking mechanism that is going to be market-defining": face unlock seems undeniably cooler still, works reasonably well, has been shipping on all Android phones for nearly two years now, yet certainly hasn't "defined" any markets. How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? Like face unlock, it's at best a cute trick. Apple's past genius has been about finding new fundamental ways to use technology. Slightly easier protection against spousal snooping doesn't qualify, sorry.

pbreit 13y ago
Face Unlock doesn't work very well, is less secure and much more difficult. This is hardly a "cute trick". We are going to see the rapid expansion of fingerprints in place of passwords and it is going to be pretty neat.
- rurounijones 13y ago
  I sincerely hope not since, as a recent HN submission pointed out, you [EDIT] possibly [/EDIT] lose all 5th amendment protections in the US when your device is no longer protected by "something you know" "As well as" == fine "Instead of" == run!
  - balbaugh 13y ago
    This is a possibility, not a definite. The courts will have to decide.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    Why wasn't this a problem 10 years ago when fingerprint scanners were introduced to desktop and then laptop computers?
    - rurounijones 13y ago
      Good question, not a clue but anecdotally I have never seen a finger-print scanner enabled computer that didn't use it as part of a two-factor auth as well as password in a corporate environment. The cynical part of me thinks that the proliferation of mobile devices + the close proximity of these new devices to danger (danger being people who would quite like you to give them access at every opportunity it seems. e.g. employees of an increasingly privacy-hostile government, such as the police) in the hands of users who don't know the implications is the biggest change/problem.
- sanswork 13y ago
  The problem with fingerprints is you can only change your password 10 times and faking them at readers has been easy since at least 2001(Including the ones doing heat detection and ridge depth checking).
sami36 13y ago
"works reasonably well" It doesn't.
rhizome 13y ago
Android's face-unlock, while also slow, is easily defeated: http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/08/03/android-jelly-beans-face-unlock-liveness-check-circumvented-with-simple-photo-editing/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/08/03/android-jelly-beans-...
- ajross 13y ago
  It's a camera taking a picture, of course it can be defeated. It's a good thing the fingerprint scanner isn't... wait. These things are toys. If you expect meaningful security from any of them, you've been fooled by marketing.
  - ddinh 13y ago
    The fingerprint sensor is not an optical device. It's a capacitive device, so it will take a bit more to fool than a photo. See page 8 of the review: Touch ID is a capacitive fingerprint sensor embedded behind a sapphire crystal cover. The sensor works by forming a capacitor with your finger/thumb. The sensor applies a voltage to one plate of a capacitor, using your finger as the other plate. The resulting electric field between your dermis (layer right below your outward facing skin) and the Touch ID sensor maps out the ridges and valleys of your fingerprint.
  - bdcravens 13y ago
    The fingerprint scanner uses RF to look at the layer of cells below the outermost layer of dead cells, so it's doing far more than taking a photo. (That's been covered in recent days on HN)
    - daliusd 13y ago
      That's good to know that Mafia will kill me after unlocking my phone not before :)
      - patrickg 13y ago
        They just need your thumb...
corporalagumbo 13y ago
It's all about execution. When Android manufacturers make these "innovations," by and large they're sloppily implemented and poorly communicated. They're generally part of dozens of features that companies like Samsung try to boast about - so the net result is that consumers don't know what to pay attention to, they aren't inspired to feel lust for the product or any of its particular features, and so the product becomes just one more indistinct phone on the scrapheap. Whereas Apple focuses on a few core features to improve on and communicate with each phone, and they're overwhelmingly cautious - like only integrating Touch ID with a few spots of the phone at first. But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire product lust to the degree they can.
- bentcorner 13y ago
  > But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire product lust to the degree they can. While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. How much would you pay for Touch ID? It offers little security benefit, only allowing you to log in a tiny bit faster. I can log in with my passcode fairly quickly and often without even looking at the screen. Maybe $5? $10 at a stretch. Definitely not worth getting locked into Apple's platform for another generation. Edit: It will be extremely telling of the politics of touch ID internally within apple when we see the uptake of this stuff on non-iPhone hardware. Does the entire company believe in this technology? Will we see it on the iPad, iPad Mini? On Macbooks? Once we see deeper integration of touch ID across the rest of Apple's hardware devices and software services would a moat start being formed, but it would require a stern guiding hand within Apple to make it happen.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    > While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. Uh, how many times a day do you perform some type of authentication of your identity? I have a feeling this will be one of those foot-in-mouth statements.
gareim 13y ago
Having used face unlock, it's really gimmicky. I turned that off right away. It could be a good idea in the future but, like with Samsung's hands-free gestures, right now I'd have to spend too much time aligning my face and waiting and hoping that it was going to work. Touch ID takes what you would have done anyways (thumb on home button to wake and then type in PIN) and makes it even faster. Now you still put your thumb on and eliminate the typing pin part. I haven't used Touch ID yet but I wake my phone a lot during the day, so this seems like a nice (but not absolutely necessary) feature for me. Something small that makes the experience that much better.
- barrkel 13y ago
  I use face unlock on my Nexus 7. Not gimmicky at all for a device I pick up maybe 3 times a week, in good light. For a phone, it's a poor fit. Variance in light levels is too high. Fingerprint login is something I've had on my laptop for what seems like a decade. It's a gimmick there. But I anticipate that fingerprint unlock could be about as good as face unlock. It has the advantage of working in the dark.
  - deleted 13y ago
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- devx 13y ago
  You wouldn't have looked at the device anyway?
  - Terretta 13y ago
    > You wouldn't have looked at the device anyway? I have face unlock turned on, and so apparently, no, the natural way of picking it up doesn't perfectly center my mug. Net effect is having waited however long to try to center and recognize my face, I end up having to realize it didn't work, so an exception case action is needed, and type in a pin and enter. The implementation is unfortunate.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Not like a vanity mirror. I, for one, open the phone and look at it a slight angle, not with the camera centered on my face as if I'm about to take a selfie.
planb 13y ago
> Not responding to the fawning per se, but specifically the "unlocking mechanism that is going to be market-defining": face unlock seems undeniably cooler still, works reasonably well, has been shipping on all Android phones for nearly two years now, yet certainly hasn't "defined" any markets. See, that's exactly what the OP means. I tried to use face unlock on my Nexus 7 - it's just noot good enough. Too slow, too unreliable, especially in bad light conditions. I obviously haven't had the change to play with the iPhone 5s yet, but I'm quite confident that after getting used to keeping the thumb on the home button after turning it on, you won't event notice the fingerprint scanner.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
terapixel 13y ago
>> How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? Quoting from the article: "Apple's Touch ID was the biggest surprise for me. I found it very well executed and a nice part of the overall experience. When between the 5s and the 5/5c, I immediately miss Touch ID." Coming from someone as respectable as Anand, I would call that reasonable grounds to call TouchID "meaningfully better". Maybe you can point to something similar for face unlock?
psteinweber 13y ago
With the new keychain syncing in iOS7, the "Touch ID" is only one small step away of making typing passwords unnecessary. That's big!
Steko 13y ago
The fingerprint scanner isn't just a phone unlocking mechanism. It's an entire mobile identity solution.
Tloewald 13y ago
Wasn't face unlock spoofed the day of release by people using crummy printed photos?
flyosity 13y ago
I remember when two of my friends got Android phones that were face unlockable. First thing we did was hold up an iPhone with a picture of their face to it and it worked to unlock the phone! We tried this a bunch of times and it worked every time. I don't know if the technology still sucks like it did about a year ago but I have a feeling that Touch ID will not be foiled as easily.
- megablast 13y ago
  To be fair, the technology doesn't have to be completely safe, it just has to be good enough. It probably is good enough, for those who don't even use a code.
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  They updated it to check for a blink, but even the android phones that had a fingerprint scanner a few years ago, and made by the same company Apple later bought, isn't getting any respect so clearly any non-Apple approved security engineering decisions are declasse.
  - Someone 13y ago
    Not necessarily. Technology can go from 'gimmick' to 'wow' in a few years. For example, faster CPUs or improved software may have decreased both the false positive and true negative probabilities. I don't know whether that applies here, though. I have no experience with either the 'old' and the 'current' technology, and this review does not give much info, either.
  - Bud 13y ago
    More trolling from you, just like elsewhere in this thread. As you are no doubt well-aware, Apple's fingerprint scanner is not at all the same technology as the Android phones of the last few years, which all, without exception, use the type of sensor you must swipe your finger across. These are less reliable, less fast in recognition, and less secure.
    - deleted 13y ago
felipeerias 13y ago
"Slightly easier protection against spousal snooping doesn't qualify" It is about far more than that: it is about a new payment system, both more secure and more convenient. If that doesn't seem ambitious enough for you, I don't know what would. You wouldn't trust face recognition to allow payments on stores or the Internet. Touch ID is designed so you can trust it, down to the separate secure storage for your fingerprint data. It starts with being able to use your fingerprint to authorise payments at the App and iTunes Stores, and escalates from there.
evilduck 13y ago
How does this "protections against spousal snooping" joke of an argument not apply 100% equally to your "undeniably cooler" face unlock? Both have PIN fallbacks anyways.
leoc 13y ago
Not to bag on the iPhone's fingerprint detection in general - it looks to be impressive to me, in fact - but one thing it probably won't do very effectively is protect you from your spouse, or anyone else who has access to your hands while you sleep. The same risk will be present during overnight stays in police cells, probably.
rayiner 13y ago
How do you use face unlock while glancing at your phone from the corner of your eye? I think it's these sorts of practical considerations that really make Apple products special. I feel like there is someone at Apple thinking through what happens when a dad carrying a baby gets a phone call. I don't feel like that's the case with say Samsung.
amatheus 13y ago
I think the key here is "works reasonably well". Nothing at this level will be as market-defining as "works perfectly" which is what Apple aims.
MaysonL 13y ago
How exactly is putting a little scanner inside a button going to be meaningfully better? From the review: "When [moving] between the 5s and the 5/5c, I immediately miss Touch ID."
mmhd 13y ago
You're not seeing the big picture. Touch ID isn't just another gimmicky feature, it's something Apple spend a lot of money on. They acquired the company that made the technology, and improved it in a way only Apple could. Today it's a method to unlock your device, but there is no way that this is all Apple wants it to do. The possibilities are endless. Imagine not having to put your password into another website, instead you just touch the home button. Making a purchase on iTunes? Use the scanner instead of the password, etc. But that's not all. This could easily be used in a retail environment, where a prompt on your screen shows up and says "Buy foobar for $5.99?". Touch ID does the rest.

bitserf 13y ago

Its their discipline that impresses me: How much they are willing to play the long game, and take short term hits to do it. While getting hammered by Wall Street and the press for not innovating, they stick to their guns and keep evolving in incremental steps, and laying the ground for the innovation they want to do in the future. For example, current iPhone battery life isn't the greatest compared to some of the larger phones out there that are packing much more battery. But they keep making small efficiency improvements, over and over, so that if (when?) release a device with a larger battery, it will be like the MacBook Air situation, where the MBA gets staggering battery life on the next hardware iteration compared to competitors that have just adequate battery life, basically being carried by the hardware. I imagine the larger display is a similar situation, they're not happy with some compromise they'd have to make to produce a display of the larger size, whereas competitors are happy to pump something out that is better by some metric (PPI, size), but has adverse effects (battery life, color oversaturation, artifacting). I think Google has the ability to continue competing with them if they remain focused. I have my doubts about any of the other Android manufacturers, though Xiaomi could be interesting in the future, due to their focus on services.

corporalagumbo 13y ago
Yes, discipline is a great word for it. Against a sea of nay-sayers and critics they keep their composure and stay focused on the long-term. The result is that their competitors blow their opportunities by rushing, and squander any stature. Apple remains in total control of the industry.
- rednukleus 13y ago
  > Apple remains in total control of the industry. This is a nice phone, but I'm sorry - if you think Apple "remains in total control of the industry" with sub 20% marketshare and shrinking you are delusional. Whatever you may think of the theorerical advantages that Apple has, its not working for them outside of the US.
  - lostlogin 13y ago

jemeshsu 13y ago

Would be great if there is insider info on the process Apple made their decisions on what features to put into new product. It definitely not just marketing driven, but a mix that includes the technical and supply chain. Material for a book.

Gustomaximus 13y ago
From what I heard the fingerprint reader is partially enterprise driven. Apple are doing everything to ensure maximum security on devices so they can replace BlackBerry and have a strong USP against Android in enterprise sales.

pedalpete 13y ago

I think you've got some selective bias here (you couldn't tell by your writing :)), I see two things happening here. Keep in mind, I think TouchID is a great feature, but... 1)Minor improvements get fawned over and made to seem like such a life-changing massive improvement and Apple fans gloat about how Apple is the best because of x, often when other manufacturers have had the same feature/capabilities for a long time. Doesn't matter, now Apple has it, it just sucked before. 2)Apple actually seems to regularly release just about as many new features/capabilities as the next guy, but then focuses in on the things that it's fan base promotes and is excited about, and that becomes a feedback loop regarding the 'few key features'. There was a tag-cloud image from the keynote that listed all the new stuff, and most of it you'll never hear about again. It isn't the focus on key features in every release, it's you, deciding what features are key and then telling your friends all about them, and then Apple also amplifying your message. If people latched onto iBeacons, we'd be reading about that non-stop now. The difference (and where you're correct) is that Apple focuses on these features vs. Samsung with the S4 commercial that tries to show you everything and you end up not remembering any of them. Contrast that with the MotoX ads (very well done), which are still a bit scatter-shod, but much more focused. Question for you though, what's with the comment about "Google competing in the medium-term"?? I think you're more confident about Apple then they are ;)

acqq 13y ago
other manufacturers have had the same feature/capabilities for a long time No they haven't, nobody had such a fingerprint reader in the phone, all others (specifically I know of only one at the moment, do write if you know more) are "slide you finger, not too fast, not too slow, don't press the side, oops not good enough, slide it again." Having used such readers, I know they are really annoying. Not the one on iPhone 5S. You press the finger not having to care about the angle and that's it. Compared to the slide ones that reject your whole slide because it was a little to the left or to the right and where only one slide direction is allowed and it takes exact time, iPhone's is pure magic. "Having something" is not "we can write it on the spec sheet even if it's unusable."
- myko 13y ago

pavanky 13y ago

Motorola Atrix shipped with fingerprint scanning back in 2011. The reason any other device doesn't have that feature ? Apple bought the company that made the scanners and stopped all further support. This even killed support for new android versions on the Atrix. They then took 2 years to implement it on one of their devices. Also having not used the iphone 5s, you can not blindly say the solution will be market defining or very secure. Any technology like this will consistently work. Your phone will most likely ship with a backup security system that will be used when the phone can't match the finger prints. What would that mean ? Any random person can exceed the number of tries with finger print unlock and then go to the back up system that is no more secure than existing solutions. > Apple is so far ahead of the competition it's ridiculous - maybe Google can compete in the medium-term, I'm not sure This line just reeks of Apple fan boyism. There is literally nothing on the ios now that is ahead of android. Infact for the last couple of releases ios has been catching up with android (notifications, quick settings etc). It still does not have intents, widgets, default apps that can be replaced. But yes, live inside your own bubble and drool at everything apple.

gareim 13y ago
The fingerprint scanner on the Atrix was of the primitive kind, where you have to swipe your thumb and hope it scanned. Half the time it didn't. The reason it took Apple 2 years to implement it was because they waited for a better solution to come up. Their implementation is less of a hassle than previous fingerprint scanners were for consumer devices. This is where Apple shines: execution.

badman_ting 13y ago

I really am amazed to see this comment on Hacker News. I don't know what else to say.

pkulak 13y ago

Let's not get carried away. Apple makes the best hardware. They always have, and probably always will. But there's a lot more to a phone than the hardware. Lots of people genuinely prefer the way Android does things and I don't think Apple will ever figure out how to do cloud services properly.