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Dungeons and Developers
- rurounijones 13y agoVery cute and nice but the categories are too broad in name and narrow in focus "Server administration" = Apache setup etc.
- ewzimm 13y agoThis is fun as a "what don't I know" test. I think we all know of some professional software developers who wouldn't pass the advanced database talent. I might be one!
- Sir_Cmpwn 13y agoDungeons and web developers.
- novum 13y agoDungeons and world-of-webcraft developers. I slew my own personal WoW demon in '08 and this site, using the same skill tooltip-style as WoW, brings back memories :/
- Rhapso 13y agoSometimes I wonder if I still count as a developer because I don't do web tech.
- jff 13y agoYes. Oh god yes. Don't let the HN world get you down, there's more out there than HTML and Javascript.
- contingencies 13y agoreturn(false);
- lifeformed 13y agoI hope they do more "classes". Different trees for different kinds of devs.
- contingencies 13y agoFurther observation: not one mention of maintenance or architecture, critical for all nontrivial or non 'fire and forget' projects ... very much reflects the fact that this was built by a web agency, whose culture centers around disposable, prettified projects with easily invoiceable deadlines.
- maxburkhardt 13y agoYou should add security in there somewhere!
- dlitvakb 13y agoShould be able to "Save and Share" my profile Really nice work
- jeybalachandran 13y agoSpaces in your names should be encoded/decoded as %20.
- cfontes 13y agoReally nice ! But Server Side programming should have more levels...
- bhauer 13y agoAgreed, on both points. Fun and awesome design. Since I have so few skills on the left side of this talent sheet, I really appreciate how polished it looks. I was a little sad that our framework benchmarks [1] and/or a "server-side performance" talent category were missing. :) [1] http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/
- nrivadeneira 13y agoMyself: http://www.dungeonsanddevelopers.com/#_a2b2cde3hijklm2nopqxy2_15_Nick http://www.dungeonsanddevelopers.com/#_a2b2cde3hijklm2nopqxy... This is actually an interesting way to display credentials. You could potentially put this up as supplementary on your LinkedIn profile or something along those lines.
- dak1 13y agoI find it intriguing how close yours was to what I came up with quick for myself (http://www.dungeonsanddevelopers.com/#_a2b2c2de3hi2jklmnopqxy_17_Dak http://www.dungeonsanddevelopers.com/#_a2b2c2de3hi2jklmnopqx...). I wonder what percentage of web developers on HN fall into the same broad category.
- Jtsummers 13y agoNot a skill tree, but this reminds me of the challenge map from http://hacker.org http://hacker.org. EDIT: To add, the intent of the challenge map is that many of the challenges build directly or indirectly on past challenges. Basic crypto challenges (by basic, I mean simple substitution ciphers) to simple XOR ciphers with increasing levels of difficulty (intended, sometimes there are shortcuts the designer didn't perceive). Programming challenges using their own esoteric languages or solving problems with potential exponential algorithms (until you figure out the shortcuts) and the like.
- ryalfalpha 13y agoDefinitely recommend this site, it was a big influence in my early programming days, I found it way more interesting than Project Euler.
- Jtsummers 13y agoAgreed. I didn't get too far in Project Euler myself before finding other programming problems to solve. Logging in I only solved 4, apparently. Which doesn't seem right, maybe I accidentally created a second account, I've done that a few times. The main issue was, though I have a math degree, there was no way it would appeal to most of my friends when we'd turn these sorts of things into a (mostly) friendly competition. Hacker.org hit just the right buttons to keep a few of them interested long enough to even plough through the problems they didn't enjoy just to make progress.
- vyrotek 13y agoIf this is the skill tree, is doing a startup a raid?
- eruditely 13y agoBravo.
- saraid216 13y agoNah, the better analogy is forming a guild. The raid is every time there's a fire you have to put out because a key customer is unhappy or you aren't making enough money and need to pivot or your landlord kicks you out or you go for VC funding. ...I can't believe I bothered to write this.
- frozenport 13y agoBack button is broken in Firefox 23.0
- gee_totes 13y agoYeah, same with chrome. looks like every skill you clicked on created an entry in the browser's history. Not sure why they did the UX like that; it's very annoying.
- natural219 13y agoAww. I guess not knowing stored procedures prevents me from obtaining Web Development mastery. Fair enough, I suppose.
- ChiperSoft 13y agoAnd also from being able to use AJAX, apparently.
- jessedhillon 13y agoYeah, there should be a step before that involves joins, using composite primary keys and foreign key constraints, views ... just some things that I would say are a step above "I wrote a model file and my ORM issued the appropriate DDLs"
- lotsofcows 13y agoThat one got me to. I'm capable of writing a stored procedure - it's hardly challenging if you program and know RDBMS, I just dislike spreading business logic into my data layer.
- patio11 13y agojQuery Effects is a pre-req for the ultimate (Web Development Mastery) but jQuery Effects does not arrow into the ultimate. Instead, Web Design Mastery, which is a pre-req for jQuery Effects, does. This appears to be a bug. You could resolve it by moving WDM up a level and moving jQuery Effects into its current position.
- vertis 13y agoVery interesting concept, but it is very limited currently. I'd like to see some other 'classes'. A class for Ops/DevOps, and for Technical Management for instance
- icambron 13y agoIt's very cool, but some complaints: - I shouldn't have to know advanced database management to do AJAX or user authentication. Seems like a dependency bug. - The tree emphasizes jQuery effects to an odd degree (three levels) and it doesn't depend on JS mastery. Seems obscure and out of place. - There's too much specificity in a lot of the descriptions and links. I'd focus less on tools and more on skills. For example, instead of "You can use frameworks like Ember.js,...", say "you can build a complete, highly interactive SPA". Instead of "You can use mod_rewrite", say "You are comfortable deploying, configuring, and maintaining high-traffic sites in a complex environment." The User Testing and Prototypes skills are much better in this regard. - I'm not sure I love the Web Development Mastery skill, because I'm not sure what it captures besides "I checked off all the other boxes". Edit: removed use of "just" that makes it sound more critical than I meant it.
- arxpoetica 13y agoHad the same complaints. It's cool, but I definitely qualify for a whole slew of skills that this doesn't cover that would have brought me to different results. And I agree about the JavaScript factor. For example, Node.js has opened up the back end in very unique ways for many programmers _of JavaScript skill_.
- thatthatis 13y agoAgree with the dependency bug and the jquery effects. Disagree that the specificity is bad. If someone doesn't already have the skill, the specificity helps. I'd suggest something like "Can build complete highly interactive SPAs with frameworks like Ember.js..."
- fennecfoxen 13y agoIt's a little dogmatic in places. For example, stored procedures and custom functions to improve database performance are a perfectly legitimate approach, but not the only one, and it comes with limitations as well as benefits. :P Also, way to totally omit NoSQL data stores and automated testing. Selenium anyone? no one? bah.
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- lifeformed 13y agoWhat if a company implemented this in their workplace? They would have different classes for general positions in the company, and you could get a skill by passing a rigorous test. Each skill point would get you a raise. You get promotions or change roles based on your class specialization and level. I know, I know, it'd be a disaster. But maybe there could be lower stakes at hand to encourage employees to learn new skills, like cashing in XP for little perks.
- andrewb 13y agoI don't agree that'd be a disaster, I personally like the idea or at least something similar. Essentially it's about basing promotions & pay based off meritocracy. There could be concerns about the Peter Principle [0] but at a high level, it appeals to me to work in an environment where people can "prove" they have the skills, instead of talking the talk or simply being the oldest employee. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle
- tesseractive 13y agoThe fact that you can point to some credential that asserts that you learned something doesn't speak to your ability to actually use it effectively[1], much less achieve business objectives by using it. Also, the people who you believe have been promoted by virtue of being the "oldest employee" may actually possess skills that you are unaware of -- perhaps even skills you are unaware are useful and important. Speaking as someone who has been around the block but prefers to work as an individual contributor rather than a manager, I have observed any number of important skills that are prevalent among effective managers that most technical folks start out unaware of. Risk assessment skills -- which are often based in having enough experience with both successful and failed projects -- are a good example. Another is the willingness to take responsibility for what often seem like nonsensical decisions that have to be made due to business or practical constraints. The latter is something that virtually no one likes to do, but often needs to be done in real life.[2] I could go on indefinitely, but I hope a couple of examples will suffice for now. [1] http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh0blbt3bs1qz8yeno1_400.jpg http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh0blbt3bs1qz8yeno1_400.jp... [2] I was too slow to pick up on this lesson in real life until I saw the way Tom Hanks told Gary Sinise he was being dropped from the mission in the movie Apollo 13. In the time since, this has been a useful observation about how managers can be more effective when they don't try to do whatever will make you like them the most (which is typically a negative trait in a manager).
- karpathy 13y agoContent aside, I love the idea of visualizing various skills and their relationships in this World of Warcraft - like style! Nicely done. Khan Academy could be taking notes and inspiration to replace their current Knowledge Map: https://www.khanacademy.org/exercisedashboard https://www.khanacademy.org/exercisedashboard Perhaps this would be a little over the top with gamification, but it could be cute to have a character sheet for every student with their level, experience points, skills and talent specs listed out in tabs. It's fun to look at Online Education as being essentially an MMORPG.
- xerophtye 13y ago>t's fun to look at Online Education as being essentially an MMORPG. Hell yeah! >have a character sheet for every student with their level, experience points, skills and talent specs listed out in tabs Isn't that one of the goals of Khan Academy? Because I remember them saying that they were against grades and that every student deserved a specialized reprot of their skills abilities projects etc
- X4 13y agoMOOC → MMORPG, not a big difference, but a huge impact. Education should be more fun, less hostile/prison.
- kedar5 13y agoStylish, Sizzlin, Crafty, Nimble, Beefcake, XXL Knapsack, Mindweaver, Mindreader, Artistic, Conjurer, Stewardship, Spectral Guide.... From Dungeons and Developers
- enraged_camel 13y agoIt would be pretty awesome if they created a fully editable/customizable version of this talent tree. I would totally pay for it.
- lmartel 13y agoThis is fun! Great work. One small suggestion: consider using replaceState instead of pushState, pressing the back button just removes one skill point when it should probably leave the site (or at least remove all skill points).
- jaimebuelta 13y agoThis is pretty cool but shows up how unrealistic talent trees are in real life. Will be a pretty good idea for a customised CV in game industry, though... :-P
- Wintamute 13y agoI love this! I think there's some real mileage in something like this realised a little better. For example: - Let users upload their own portraits - Sort out the skill dependencies to be more logical. Why do the 3 levels of jQuery effects not depend on JS mastery for example? - Less emphasis on specific tools and more on types of skill, as pointed out by some other commenters - Let us pick classes, perhaps with two components to the class, e.g. "Frontend ranger", "Devops Paladin", "Database barbarian", "Data Scientist High Elf" etc. - Sort out the ugly looking pushState url to something cleaner that people would be proud to link to
- d0m 13y agoToo much awesomeness in one page. Now, needs to make a real game out of it. The web developer shaman and their enemy, the mighty IE6.
- X4 13y agoThis is awesome, but makes no sense without: * Business Skills * Social Skills * Mastery of a Start-up * Entrepreneur Skills * Organizational Skills ($ and PM) * Marketing Skills (most importantly) Unfortunately I know that I mastered all of these topics on site already more or less, but not the mentioned ones.
- yohann305 13y agoAny MMORPG player would tell you that a build tree decreases flexibilty and annihilates creativity as only 2 or 3 major "build trees" end up being viable.
- hackula1 13y agoThings seem aimed a bit more at designers than developers. If it was to be more developer-centric it would definitely need some references to things like GoF patterns, dependency injection, code reuse, testing/testability, loose coupling, etc. Someone could have a perfect score on this and potentially be terrible, even at web development specifically. If someone had a perfect score on the programmers competency matrix, however, they would be a sure thing. http://sijinjoseph.com/programmer-competency-matrix/ http://sijinjoseph.com/programmer-competency-matrix/ The best sort of skill tree is one where it is hard enough that you cannot make it down every path in the time that it takes to play the game (in this case a career). Someone needs to create a new competency matrix with a broader scope.
- scrabble 13y agoI really enjoy this, but I think it might not have enough levels. I'm level 28 according to the tree, but I certainly don't feel like a 28.
- kybernetyk 13y agoNice idea - though it's a pity that it's so web dev centered.
- johngalt 13y agoI enjoy the subtleties. Leveling deployment adds dexterity and fortitude :)