6 ms·

> And potentially as a byproduct of enabling all of this, you can now slop your way to a one-shot 3D game over the weekend which looks impressive. I think we'v

> And potentially as a byproduct of enabling all of this, you can now slop your way to a one-shot 3D game over the weekend which looks impressive. I think we've finally reached a weird point where AI has effectively reduced the amount of competition that real game developers have to endure. Nothing unravels faster than a game project being built with AI. You can achieve impressive results in a day, but you can't get much further than that without actual talent. LLMs will never be able to best a human environment artist at scene composition, especially if that composition needs to be directed with nuance over time. There's a huge difference between a game that looks impressive and one that feels impressive. You can only achieve games that feel like counter strike, call of duty and overwatch with thousands of hours of human sacrifice. The AI is almost pointless once you get to play testing and balancing. Knowing how much to adjust magical integers isn't a conversation a chat bot can resolve with endless pontification tokens.

generic92034 6d ago
> LLMs will never be able That is a very bold claim, unless you meant "current LLMs".
- rhdunn 6d ago
  These models aren't really LLMs -- they don't just operate on text tokens. They often include vision models and in some cases audio models. That means that they can better associate the meaning of images and words together so that when someone says "make this button blue" or "create a 3D model of a rocket" they have some level of understanding of what that is and what needs to be done. The key question is how good that understanding is. For example, a model would likely have a good understanding of various named colours and hex values (e.g. from the HTML specs, X11 specs, and various colour comparison websites) such that it could reasonably correlate that to a CSS entry. It's not clear if/how well a model would identify that given an image, though it should be easy to generate a dataset of image to colour name and/or hex code for training and evaluation. What's more interesting is whether these frontier models are at their core transformer models, whether they use residual streams to facilitate learning, and whether they are using some other as yet unpublished architecture that gives them an edge.
  - generic92034 5d ago
    Again, I was not talking about current LLMs. The statement was made without any limit regarding time. Who knows how far LLMs can get, in the end?
- bob1029 6d ago
  The coordinate system in game scenes is known as "world space", but that rarely means our world. How do you train an LLM to create a world that only exists in an artist's head? I think spending a day with just the lighting systems alone would alleviate us of any misunderstandings here. Getting lighting to work right isn't something you can solve by duct taping a vision model to the contraption.
  - generic92034 5d ago
    Again, my issue with the statement is not about current LLMs. Who knows if LLMs cannot be a major component of AGI, or even ASI systems. Then the capability to do whatever humans can do is part of the definition.
well_ackshually 6d ago
Yep. Every single post I've seen about "game development is over" is yet another procedurally generated game. Not only it doesn't prove anything about Astra being "better" at making games (do people have any idea the sheer amount of open source games that do exactly that? You can find thousands of the same planet exploration games through repos, blog posts,etc. Game design schools have it as an exercise, that's how basic it is), but as you said: the wow factor of space exploration is cool, sure. It makes for a catastrophically boring game. Leaves me to wonder whether the OpenAI glazers just never played games in their lives, or are just really superficial tech bros. Most likely, both.
- quikoa 6d ago
  There could be a large overlap between OpenAI glazers and Star Citizen dreamers.
  - well_ackshually 6d ago
    S̶q̶u̶a̶d̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶4̶2̶ AGI is coming next year, promised !
- whstl 6d ago
  Funny, it's not that different in the web-space. Most of AI is being used to generate procedural content. It is impressive on the first video or first image, and it might look useful on the surface, but it gets grating quite fast.
coffeebeqn 6d ago
Discoverability has been the main challenge for smaller game dev companies for a while now and a flood of slop will only make it worse
TonyStr 6d ago
>> And potentially as a byproduct of enabling all of this, you can now slop your way to a one-shot 3D game over the weekend which looks impressive. Do these games really look impressive? Everything I've seen has looked like someone completely new to Unity/Unreal has slapped together a bunch of premade scripts and very poor 3d assets.
- eudamoniac 5d ago
  No, they don't. But to the layman they do. Most people are unaware that you can get what is to them an impressive 3d game scaffold from the Unity asset store in like one hour. You can literally have a 3d man running around an open world with camera, lighting, shadows, run animations, in like 5 minutes. This is a very impressive feat if you have no idea about modern game engines, which 99.99999% of people do not. As an amateur game dev who knows some amount of things, honestly, not coping, I have not seen anything come out of AI game dev that would have been more than like one month of human dev work. And obviously, games take a lot more than one month to make...

generic92034 6d ago

> LLMs will never be able That is a very bold claim, unless you meant "current LLMs".

rhdunn 6d ago
These models aren't really LLMs -- they don't just operate on text tokens. They often include vision models and in some cases audio models. That means that they can better associate the meaning of images and words together so that when someone says "make this button blue" or "create a 3D model of a rocket" they have some level of understanding of what that is and what needs to be done. The key question is how good that understanding is. For example, a model would likely have a good understanding of various named colours and hex values (e.g. from the HTML specs, X11 specs, and various colour comparison websites) such that it could reasonably correlate that to a CSS entry. It's not clear if/how well a model would identify that given an image, though it should be easy to generate a dataset of image to colour name and/or hex code for training and evaluation. What's more interesting is whether these frontier models are at their core transformer models, whether they use residual streams to facilitate learning, and whether they are using some other as yet unpublished architecture that gives them an edge.
- generic92034 5d ago
  Again, I was not talking about current LLMs. The statement was made without any limit regarding time. Who knows how far LLMs can get, in the end?
bob1029 6d ago
The coordinate system in game scenes is known as "world space", but that rarely means our world. How do you train an LLM to create a world that only exists in an artist's head? I think spending a day with just the lighting systems alone would alleviate us of any misunderstandings here. Getting lighting to work right isn't something you can solve by duct taping a vision model to the contraption.
- generic92034 5d ago
  Again, my issue with the statement is not about current LLMs. Who knows if LLMs cannot be a major component of AGI, or even ASI systems. Then the capability to do whatever humans can do is part of the definition.

well_ackshually 6d ago

Yep. Every single post I've seen about "game development is over" is yet another procedurally generated game. Not only it doesn't prove anything about Astra being "better" at making games (do people have any idea the sheer amount of open source games that do exactly that? You can find thousands of the same planet exploration games through repos, blog posts,etc. Game design schools have it as an exercise, that's how basic it is), but as you said: the wow factor of space exploration is cool, sure. It makes for a catastrophically boring game. Leaves me to wonder whether the OpenAI glazers just never played games in their lives, or are just really superficial tech bros. Most likely, both.

quikoa 6d ago
There could be a large overlap between OpenAI glazers and Star Citizen dreamers.
- well_ackshually 6d ago
  S̶q̶u̶a̶d̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶4̶2̶ AGI is coming next year, promised !
whstl 6d ago
Funny, it's not that different in the web-space. Most of AI is being used to generate procedural content. It is impressive on the first video or first image, and it might look useful on the surface, but it gets grating quite fast.

coffeebeqn 6d ago

Discoverability has been the main challenge for smaller game dev companies for a while now and a flood of slop will only make it worse

TonyStr 6d ago

>> And potentially as a byproduct of enabling all of this, you can now slop your way to a one-shot 3D game over the weekend which looks impressive. Do these games really look impressive? Everything I've seen has looked like someone completely new to Unity/Unreal has slapped together a bunch of premade scripts and very poor 3d assets.

eudamoniac 5d ago
No, they don't. But to the layman they do. Most people are unaware that you can get what is to them an impressive 3d game scaffold from the Unity asset store in like one hour. You can literally have a 3d man running around an open world with camera, lighting, shadows, run animations, in like 5 minutes. This is a very impressive feat if you have no idea about modern game engines, which 99.99999% of people do not. As an amateur game dev who knows some amount of things, honestly, not coping, I have not seen anything come out of AI game dev that would have been more than like one month of human dev work. And obviously, games take a lot more than one month to make...