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> We should be paying attention to it just in case it ends up mattering enormously. It's cheap insurance. This sounds a lot like the argument some people give

> We should be paying attention to it just in case it ends up mattering enormously. It's cheap insurance. This sounds a lot like the argument some people give for praying and going to church even if you aren't a believer. "You should be doing it just in case God ends up being real."

ekidd 6d ago
On the other hand, we have recently taught rocks to think about software engineering. And while not perfect, they're surprisingly good at it. Once you start building things that are even a little bit like minds, I suspect that it's worthwhile to consider that the future might end up looking a bit like science fiction. The alternative is to insist that Nothing Ever Happens, and the future won't get too weird. Which is no longer a bet I'm entirely comfortable with. Weirdness is at least a possibility.
- nozzlegear 6d ago
  God being real is also a possibility, so maybe we really should start praying. After all, he was allegedly making bushes and stones talk thousands of years before we did anything with thinking rocks.
  - unrented7977 6d ago
    Being nice to other entities costs you nothing. Caring about others costs you nothing. Ironically, these are core tenents of ~most religions
    - protonbob 6d ago
      Ironically, the story of the Bible is that caring about others can cost you an excruciating death.
  - breezybottom 6d ago
    Its only a possibility if you reject modern science.
    - nozzlegear 6d ago
      What science has proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that nothing comes after death? I'm sure most of the human race would be very interested to read the white paper.
      - breezybottom 6d ago
        Science has proven that the earth wasn't created by a magical fairy 6000 years ago, yes. There's very little doubt about that among educated people.
        nozzlegear 6d ago
        I think even most religious people accept that bud, unless you're talking to a specific sect of evangelicals. It doesn't disprove religion or "magical fairies" [†] at all. [†] r/atheism circa 2016 called and want their dorky terminology back.
        breezybottom 5d ago
        Christians don't believe they're made in the image of God? That's news to me.
        nozzlegear 5d ago
        I think we've lost the plot, you were talking about the earth being made 6000 years ago and now you're talking about people being made in the image of god? You're just scrabbling for anything you think will score a cheap shot, when I'm not even Christian bro. Go try to dunk on someone who's at least half as emotionally invested in this as you are, goofball.
- tbugrara 6d ago
  Right, but you can say that about literally anything can't you? We have to put our energy into leads. Where's the lead that model welfare matters?
breezybottom 6d ago
Sure if you think that AI spiraling out of control is equally as likely as a magical fairy in the cosmos.
- nozzlegear 6d ago
  I do, make of that what you will.
sidravi1 6d ago
Pascal’s wager… but for the new AI gods
- hdgvhicv 5d ago
  Of course you then have Roko’s Basilisk to consider.

ekidd 6d ago

On the other hand, we have recently taught rocks to think about software engineering. And while not perfect, they're surprisingly good at it. Once you start building things that are even a little bit like minds, I suspect that it's worthwhile to consider that the future might end up looking a bit like science fiction. The alternative is to insist that Nothing Ever Happens, and the future won't get too weird. Which is no longer a bet I'm entirely comfortable with. Weirdness is at least a possibility.

nozzlegear 6d ago
God being real is also a possibility, so maybe we really should start praying. After all, he was allegedly making bushes and stones talk thousands of years before we did anything with thinking rocks.
- unrented7977 6d ago
  Being nice to other entities costs you nothing. Caring about others costs you nothing. Ironically, these are core tenents of ~most religions
  - protonbob 6d ago
    Ironically, the story of the Bible is that caring about others can cost you an excruciating death.
- breezybottom 6d ago
  Its only a possibility if you reject modern science.
  - nozzlegear 6d ago
    What science has proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that nothing comes after death? I'm sure most of the human race would be very interested to read the white paper.
    - breezybottom 6d ago
      Science has proven that the earth wasn't created by a magical fairy 6000 years ago, yes. There's very little doubt about that among educated people.
      - nozzlegear 6d ago
        I think even most religious people accept that bud, unless you're talking to a specific sect of evangelicals. It doesn't disprove religion or "magical fairies" [†] at all. [†] r/atheism circa 2016 called and want their dorky terminology back.
        breezybottom 5d ago
        Christians don't believe they're made in the image of God? That's news to me.
        nozzlegear 5d ago
        I think we've lost the plot, you were talking about the earth being made 6000 years ago and now you're talking about people being made in the image of god? You're just scrabbling for anything you think will score a cheap shot, when I'm not even Christian bro. Go try to dunk on someone who's at least half as emotionally invested in this as you are, goofball.
tbugrara 6d ago
Right, but you can say that about literally anything can't you? We have to put our energy into leads. Where's the lead that model welfare matters?

breezybottom 6d ago

Sure if you think that AI spiraling out of control is equally as likely as a magical fairy in the cosmos.

nozzlegear 6d ago
I do, make of that what you will.

sidravi1 6d ago

Pascal’s wager… but for the new AI gods

hdgvhicv 5d ago
Of course you then have Roko’s Basilisk to consider.