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Google is the worst offender, but a lot of companies are increasingly hiding themselves behind a wall of automated systems to completely neuter users ability to

Google is the worst offender, but a lot of companies are increasingly hiding themselves behind a wall of automated systems to completely neuter users ability to challenge any decision unilaterally taken by the them. The LLM-age has worsen the situation but it started well before it. At some point it may be necessary to add the requirement for large companies to have a both human contact point and perhaps a requirement for specifics on account terminations and the like, or at least a way to request them, to the letter of the law.

tryauuum 8d ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 7d ago
  WTF? Please don't fantasize about building concentration camps or use vile terms of derision on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here, and we have to ban accounts that do this repeatedly. No matter how upset you are at GitHub, you owe this community better if you want to participate here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
trashb 8d ago
Making the decision is easy, dealing with the consequences is not.
an0malous 8d ago
I opened a Google Workspace account for my solo business to have an email address at my domain, got suspended a month later, had no way of contacting support since they require login and I was the only user, filed an appeal, got no response after a month, eventually contacted their Twitter support account and had access restored, but through this all they charged me for the subscription three times while I was locked out and before I could cancel. I contacted their support after I was restored and they said they wouldn’t refund me because the Workspace account wasn’t suspended just my individual user (even though they acknowledged I was the only user). I had receipts and screenshots of everything including confirmation from Google’s own UI that I was suspended for that entire period, but I just have to let Google steal $100 from me now because what else am I going to do? Also their explanation for the lockout was that I failed the verification step too many times, which I don’t recall failing even once.
- franklymail 7d ago
  [dead]
usernametaken29 8d ago
It’s a strategy. Ask RyanAir. They systematically shut down any way to communicate with them, except lawsuits. Tried their chatbot, hotline, email, letter, fax, small claims court (I’m not joking they don’t even care about that). Unless you turn up with a court order and confiscate a plane, they simply won’t give a fuck, and I’m sure it’s a tactic to deter 99% of their problems before they start
- sscaryterry 8d ago
  The fact that this has become acceptable is the real problem.
  - tcfhgj 8d ago
    You don't want to harm the economy, do you?
    - sscaryterry 8d ago
      I'm sure the people who will get hurt have plenty of money.
- ShinyLeftPad 8d ago
  Same with Amazon Japan. It blocked my account with no way to contact them, never used again.
- sensanaty 8d ago
  British Airways is the same. After they wrongfully didn't let me board my flight I had to escalate to the Dutch aviation authority (ILT, they sided in my favor within 3 days of me sending my letter in, that's how blatantly in the right I was) in order to get them to stop ignoring my emails, and even with the letter from ILT I still had to escalate to CEDR and they still took forever to compensate me what I was owed after legally being bound to do so. Along the way they tried every scummy tactic that exists, including sending me an email to close my CEDR case and they pinky promise they'll compensate me if I do that (which should be HIGHLY illegal but apparently isn't). They even went over the legally enforced time limits! They had 2 months after CEDR made their ruling in my favor to pay me back, and I STILL had to hound them after 2 and a half months to get my fucking money! If I wasn't as idiotically stubborn as I am, I would've given up a month into the 8 month ordeal it eventually turned into. I guarantee you the vast majority of people wouldn't bother escalating to their CAA, or contact the relevant courts or authorities, which is what these scummy tactics are designed for. They would've been ignored like I did, then they would've given up because what's even the point? The fact that we're allowing companies to get away with bullshit like this is ludicrous to me
nellophonic 8d ago
Funny you should say that. I'm not a big Instagram user, but have had an account for years. The company I work for has just started an Instagram campaign, and asked anyone who wanted to, to check out their campaign and give it a like. I did so, and a minute later received this email: "Your Instagram account has been suspended. This is because your account, or activity on it, doesn't follow our Community Standards on account integrity. If you think that we made a mistake, you have until 8 March 2027 to appeal." I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. My latest rejection says I have only one more chance. No idea what the transgression was, but apparently there is no recourse. I guess it's a good thing I don't really give a crap about Instagram in the first place, isn't it.
- macintux 8d ago
  > I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. After the recent news about >150 million drivers' license photos being stolen from an ID verification service, I'd be very hesitant to do this for anything I didn't absolutely need. ID theft is a lot easier when someone has a photo of your sensitive documents. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49561320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49561320
- btilly 8d ago
  My wife lost her Facebook account because Facebook autolinked it to someone else's Instagram (not hers), then shut that one down for abuse. No appeal process. Luckily she didn't use Facebook much.
- x______________ 8d ago
  > I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. That's not a good practice to begin with. Your insta account doesn't matter but your privacy and government-issued documents do matter.
- kevin_thibedeau 8d ago
  > uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport Sounds like its working as designed. This is why you never cross streams between work and personal life.
Cthulhu_ 8d ago
> At some point it may be necessary to add the requirement for large companies to have a both human contact point and perhaps a requirement for specifics on account terminations and the like, or at least a way to request them, to the letter of the law. This is already implemented, under the EU's Digital Services Act, you can appeal and get specifics about account terminations - see https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/dsa-out-court-dispute-settlement https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/dsa-out-co...
- pjc50 8d ago
  Per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49625933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49625933 - is it actually enforced?

tryauuum 8d ago

[flagged]

tomhow 7d ago
WTF? Please don't fantasize about building concentration camps or use vile terms of derision on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here, and we have to ban accounts that do this repeatedly. No matter how upset you are at GitHub, you owe this community better if you want to participate here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

trashb 8d ago

Making the decision is easy, dealing with the consequences is not.

an0malous 8d ago

I opened a Google Workspace account for my solo business to have an email address at my domain, got suspended a month later, had no way of contacting support since they require login and I was the only user, filed an appeal, got no response after a month, eventually contacted their Twitter support account and had access restored, but through this all they charged me for the subscription three times while I was locked out and before I could cancel. I contacted their support after I was restored and they said they wouldn’t refund me because the Workspace account wasn’t suspended just my individual user (even though they acknowledged I was the only user). I had receipts and screenshots of everything including confirmation from Google’s own UI that I was suspended for that entire period, but I just have to let Google steal $100 from me now because what else am I going to do? Also their explanation for the lockout was that I failed the verification step too many times, which I don’t recall failing even once.

franklymail 7d ago
[dead]

usernametaken29 8d ago

It’s a strategy. Ask RyanAir. They systematically shut down any way to communicate with them, except lawsuits. Tried their chatbot, hotline, email, letter, fax, small claims court (I’m not joking they don’t even care about that). Unless you turn up with a court order and confiscate a plane, they simply won’t give a fuck, and I’m sure it’s a tactic to deter 99% of their problems before they start

sscaryterry 8d ago
The fact that this has become acceptable is the real problem.
- tcfhgj 8d ago
  You don't want to harm the economy, do you?
  - sscaryterry 8d ago
    I'm sure the people who will get hurt have plenty of money.
ShinyLeftPad 8d ago
Same with Amazon Japan. It blocked my account with no way to contact them, never used again.
sensanaty 8d ago
British Airways is the same. After they wrongfully didn't let me board my flight I had to escalate to the Dutch aviation authority (ILT, they sided in my favor within 3 days of me sending my letter in, that's how blatantly in the right I was) in order to get them to stop ignoring my emails, and even with the letter from ILT I still had to escalate to CEDR and they still took forever to compensate me what I was owed after legally being bound to do so. Along the way they tried every scummy tactic that exists, including sending me an email to close my CEDR case and they pinky promise they'll compensate me if I do that (which should be HIGHLY illegal but apparently isn't). They even went over the legally enforced time limits! They had 2 months after CEDR made their ruling in my favor to pay me back, and I STILL had to hound them after 2 and a half months to get my fucking money! If I wasn't as idiotically stubborn as I am, I would've given up a month into the 8 month ordeal it eventually turned into. I guarantee you the vast majority of people wouldn't bother escalating to their CAA, or contact the relevant courts or authorities, which is what these scummy tactics are designed for. They would've been ignored like I did, then they would've given up because what's even the point? The fact that we're allowing companies to get away with bullshit like this is ludicrous to me

nellophonic 8d ago

Funny you should say that. I'm not a big Instagram user, but have had an account for years. The company I work for has just started an Instagram campaign, and asked anyone who wanted to, to check out their campaign and give it a like. I did so, and a minute later received this email: "Your Instagram account has been suspended. This is because your account, or activity on it, doesn't follow our Community Standards on account integrity. If you think that we made a mistake, you have until 8 March 2027 to appeal." I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. My latest rejection says I have only one more chance. No idea what the transgression was, but apparently there is no recourse. I guess it's a good thing I don't really give a crap about Instagram in the first place, isn't it.

macintux 8d ago
> I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. After the recent news about >150 million drivers' license photos being stolen from an ID verification service, I'd be very hesitant to do this for anything I didn't absolutely need. ID theft is a lot easier when someone has a photo of your sensitive documents. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49561320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49561320
btilly 8d ago
My wife lost her Facebook account because Facebook autolinked it to someone else's Instagram (not hers), then shut that one down for abuse. No appeal process. Luckily she didn't use Facebook much.
x______________ 8d ago
> I've now uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport and still apparently that's not good enough for them. That's not a good practice to begin with. Your insta account doesn't matter but your privacy and government-issued documents do matter.
kevin_thibedeau 8d ago
> uploaded my drivers licence, a photo of my passport Sounds like its working as designed. This is why you never cross streams between work and personal life.

Cthulhu_ 8d ago

> At some point it may be necessary to add the requirement for large companies to have a both human contact point and perhaps a requirement for specifics on account terminations and the like, or at least a way to request them, to the letter of the law. This is already implemented, under the EU's Digital Services Act, you can appeal and get specifics about account terminations - see https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/dsa-out-court-dispute-settlement https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/dsa-out-co...

pjc50 8d ago
Per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49625933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49625933 - is it actually enforced?