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“ The benefits of sitting together, collaborating in person, and solving problems as a team are clearer than ever in our post-Covid world.” 100%. Speaking only

“ The benefits of sitting together, collaborating in person, and solving problems as a team are clearer than ever in our post-Covid world.” 100%. Speaking only for myself, I was fully remote for a few years and that was a miserable experience. Now everyone is mandated to be in office 3 days a week and that works better for me. Uber is going one step further and structuring teams to be colocated with their manager. That solves the problem of team members distributed across multiple offices, which is still a real pain point in the hybrid model. I know some people who strictly prefer fully remote setup. Over time, I think companies and employees will self sort themselves into those who prefer office vs those who prefer remote. That should work out for most of us.

mhitza 15d ago
When working a regular 9-5 I very much preferred office presence for the social aspect, especially when work is slower and no pressure. But when I actually need to concentrate and deliver high quality work, it needs to be in a quiet place. And that is often from home, because open space office buildings are the devil's work and I will never forget how much people complained about them when they started becoming the norm a bit before the 2010s.
throwforfeds 14d ago
> Speaking only for myself, I was fully remote for a few years and that was a miserable experience. Just out of curiosity, what did you find miserable about it? I've been working remote since 2008 and just have no desire to ever be consistently in an office, but I guess I did like it when I could pop over to SF (I live in NYC), stay in an apt my employer at the time had, and spend a week with people. Otherwise, I much prefer the freedom of being remote.
- unethical_ban 14d ago
  Different person. In short: I get distracted at home, and home is no longer home - it's the office. I work best when talking through my mental blocks with people. As a consultant I've never gotten over trying to poke my head in via Slack/Teams/etc. In-person huddles and brainstorming get more done in 30 minutes than phone back-and-forth usually does over days. Being in the office allows some level of personal understanding occur between teams and people. I like the idea of being able to live where I want, but I haven't moved since going WFH, and I find talking to people in person when I visit gets planning and training done a lot more efficiently. Learning from others and collaborating on problems is something mid-high level IT does a lot more than solo coding for hours at a time.
xingped 14d ago
I love how most any RTO-proponent always presents RTO as "well I'm glad you're back in the office with me because that's better for me". Ask most any WFH-proponent about going to the office and the answer will read like "do whatever works best for yourself, I prefer WFH myself, you can go to the office if you want". It's a very selfish mindset, really. If RTO-proponents cared about not imposing their will on others, they'd also advocate for WFH for anyone that prefers it, but they don't.
- missedthecue 14d ago
  Well what do you expect? Holing yourself up in your home is something you can do unilaterally. In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. It's not a unilateral action so there isn't unilateral advice.
  - broknbottle 14d ago
    100%. The Linux kernel would have never grown and become so successful if it weren’t for everybody in the office all those years just collaborate-maxxxing … /s
  - catchnear4321 14d ago
    in-person collaboration requiring in-person more than collaboration, as collaboration is quite possible remotely, and even asynchronously. “holing yourself up…” but it wasn’t about conversation, it was about opinion.
  - pjmlp 14d ago
    Except most of us don't do team collaboration in the office anyway. With very few exceptions, all my projects involve distributed teams in a mix of nearshore and offshoring, across multiple locations.
    - FoundTheDouche 13d ago
      [dead]
locknitpicker 14d ago
> Speaking only for myself, I was fully remote for a few years and that was a miserable experience. Now everyone is mandated to be in office 3 days a week and that works better for me. If you feel you work better at the office, more power to you. That does not justify forcing everyone around you to do the same, particularly if the best argument you can piece together is that forcing others to do something against their will makes you feel better.
- RestlessMind 4d ago
  > That does not justify forcing everyone around you to do the same Literally that's why I wrote: "I know some people who strictly prefer fully remote setup. Over time, I think companies and employees will self sort themselves into those who prefer office vs those who prefer remote. That should work out for most of us."
shikck200 13d ago
RTO steals one work day from me per week, at a minimum. When i work from home i can start 6am (or whenever i want to), and if im in a flow state, i can push to 5pm easily. I get SOOOO much done. Other days i can lax, have a few teams meetings and chill on the couch and quit work early. When i go to the office it takes 2 hours from each day only for commute, add meetings, lunch breaks, and the office bullshit chitchat and non-stop blabber that distracts you. People on the phone, or just "hanging" out next to you. Bottom line is when i have to work from the office i get 5% done of what i do from home. I get angry, and unmotivated. I usually also leave early.

mhitza 15d ago

When working a regular 9-5 I very much preferred office presence for the social aspect, especially when work is slower and no pressure. But when I actually need to concentrate and deliver high quality work, it needs to be in a quiet place. And that is often from home, because open space office buildings are the devil's work and I will never forget how much people complained about them when they started becoming the norm a bit before the 2010s.

throwforfeds 14d ago

> Speaking only for myself, I was fully remote for a few years and that was a miserable experience. Just out of curiosity, what did you find miserable about it? I've been working remote since 2008 and just have no desire to ever be consistently in an office, but I guess I did like it when I could pop over to SF (I live in NYC), stay in an apt my employer at the time had, and spend a week with people. Otherwise, I much prefer the freedom of being remote.

unethical_ban 14d ago
Different person. In short: I get distracted at home, and home is no longer home - it's the office. I work best when talking through my mental blocks with people. As a consultant I've never gotten over trying to poke my head in via Slack/Teams/etc. In-person huddles and brainstorming get more done in 30 minutes than phone back-and-forth usually does over days. Being in the office allows some level of personal understanding occur between teams and people. I like the idea of being able to live where I want, but I haven't moved since going WFH, and I find talking to people in person when I visit gets planning and training done a lot more efficiently. Learning from others and collaborating on problems is something mid-high level IT does a lot more than solo coding for hours at a time.

xingped 14d ago

I love how most any RTO-proponent always presents RTO as "well I'm glad you're back in the office with me because that's better for me". Ask most any WFH-proponent about going to the office and the answer will read like "do whatever works best for yourself, I prefer WFH myself, you can go to the office if you want". It's a very selfish mindset, really. If RTO-proponents cared about not imposing their will on others, they'd also advocate for WFH for anyone that prefers it, but they don't.

missedthecue 14d ago
Well what do you expect? Holing yourself up in your home is something you can do unilaterally. In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. It's not a unilateral action so there isn't unilateral advice.
- broknbottle 14d ago
  100%. The Linux kernel would have never grown and become so successful if it weren’t for everybody in the office all those years just collaborate-maxxxing … /s
- catchnear4321 14d ago
  in-person collaboration requiring in-person more than collaboration, as collaboration is quite possible remotely, and even asynchronously. “holing yourself up…” but it wasn’t about conversation, it was about opinion.
- pjmlp 14d ago
  Except most of us don't do team collaboration in the office anyway. With very few exceptions, all my projects involve distributed teams in a mix of nearshore and offshoring, across multiple locations.
  - FoundTheDouche 13d ago
    [dead]

locknitpicker 14d ago

> Speaking only for myself, I was fully remote for a few years and that was a miserable experience. Now everyone is mandated to be in office 3 days a week and that works better for me. If you feel you work better at the office, more power to you. That does not justify forcing everyone around you to do the same, particularly if the best argument you can piece together is that forcing others to do something against their will makes you feel better.

RestlessMind 4d ago
> That does not justify forcing everyone around you to do the same Literally that's why I wrote: "I know some people who strictly prefer fully remote setup. Over time, I think companies and employees will self sort themselves into those who prefer office vs those who prefer remote. That should work out for most of us."

shikck200 13d ago

RTO steals one work day from me per week, at a minimum. When i work from home i can start 6am (or whenever i want to), and if im in a flow state, i can push to 5pm easily. I get SOOOO much done. Other days i can lax, have a few teams meetings and chill on the couch and quit work early. When i go to the office it takes 2 hours from each day only for commute, add meetings, lunch breaks, and the office bullshit chitchat and non-stop blabber that distracts you. People on the phone, or just "hanging" out next to you. Bottom line is when i have to work from the office i get 5% done of what i do from home. I get angry, and unmotivated. I usually also leave early.