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The main question to government is: 1. You already know who everyone is. By definition identification as an individual is by government. 2. Why is there not a

by rswail 15d ago

The main question to government is: 1. You already know who everyone is. By definition identification as an individual is by government. 2. Why is there not a system that allows a business or other service to ask for government identification that is encrypted and only visible to government, but that allows a business to ask for certain details, required for the operation of the business (eg confirmation of driving license, or age)? 3. Why is that evidence not provided directly, but as a confirmation from the government service ("Yes, this person is over 18", not "Yes, this person is 37")? Governments need to protect the public, not allow businesses open slather on collecting PII.

Hobadee 15d ago
We can't do any of that because it is forward-thinking and doesn't involve clear-cutting a rainforest to make the stacks of paperwork that are otherwise required to fill out forms in triplicate, run everything through 17 different departments, and ensure an army of bereaucrats have something to do with their day.
vincnetas 15d ago
This is exactly the way its being implemented in EU (Yes, this person is over 18"). European Digital Identity Wallet (EUDI Wallet) framework established under the eIDAS 2.0 regulation (Regulation (EU) 2024/1183)
acchow 15d ago
This is already present today in California Driver's licenses in your Apple Wallet (mDL). When you scan your driver's license at a compatible reader, you're given a notice of what information is being requested and the ability to share it (or not). It can also request some derived attribute (is this person above the age of 21?) instead of the actual data field itself. Most of this is from ISO/IEC 18013-5
2legit2quit 15d ago
> Why is there not a system that allows a business or other service to ask for government identification that is encrypted and only visible to government, but that allows a business to ask for certain details, required for the operation of the business (eg confirmation of driving license, or age)? Generally speaking, it's the narrative of a pushback on a "national id". Many countries already have this place. Estonia has the Digital ID provided by government[0]. Nordic countries use BankID, which is a form of KYC that is backed by banks (you prove your identity to the bank, the bank issues a bank id - usually back by certificate[s], and you login with this to services[1][2]). Finland is the outlier, here, with their own service[3]. 0 - https://e-estonia.com/service/estonian-e-identity/id-card/ https://e-estonia.com/service/estonian-e-identity/id-card/ 1 - https://www.bankid.com/en/individuals/get-bankid https://www.bankid.com/en/individuals/get-bankid 2 - https://bankid.no/en/how-to-get-bankid https://bankid.no/en/how-to-get-bankid 3 - https://www.suomi.fi/instructions-and-support/identification/what-is-suomifi-e-identification https://www.suomi.fi/instructions-and-support/identification...
- gnz11 15d ago
  Yes, which is part of a wider narrative in the US that insists everything must be privatized because the government cannot be trusted or is otherwise incompetent.
  - einsteinx2 14d ago
    The irony I’ve always found in that statement is that while it’s true that the government can’t be trusted and is generally incompetent, it’s also true of private companies. So even though it’s a true statement at face value, it’s still not a good argument for privatization which is just trading one set of incompetent and corrupt people for another set of the same but with even less oversight.
- Gander5739 15d ago
  https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE (Yes, Prime Minister)
navigate8310 14d ago
One can argue, this would be an unintentional tracking of the population by government
- rswail 14d ago
  One could argue that, but with a properly designed API, it could preserve anonymity while still providing businesses with the necessary validation.

by rswail 15d ago

Hobadee 15d ago

We can't do any of that because it is forward-thinking and doesn't involve clear-cutting a rainforest to make the stacks of paperwork that are otherwise required to fill out forms in triplicate, run everything through 17 different departments, and ensure an army of bereaucrats have something to do with their day.

vincnetas 15d ago

This is exactly the way its being implemented in EU (Yes, this person is over 18"). European Digital Identity Wallet (EUDI Wallet) framework established under the eIDAS 2.0 regulation (Regulation (EU) 2024/1183)

acchow 15d ago

This is already present today in California Driver's licenses in your Apple Wallet (mDL). When you scan your driver's license at a compatible reader, you're given a notice of what information is being requested and the ability to share it (or not). It can also request some derived attribute (is this person above the age of 21?) instead of the actual data field itself. Most of this is from ISO/IEC 18013-5

2legit2quit 15d ago

> Why is there not a system that allows a business or other service to ask for government identification that is encrypted and only visible to government, but that allows a business to ask for certain details, required for the operation of the business (eg confirmation of driving license, or age)? Generally speaking, it's the narrative of a pushback on a "national id". Many countries already have this place. Estonia has the Digital ID provided by government[0]. Nordic countries use BankID, which is a form of KYC that is backed by banks (you prove your identity to the bank, the bank issues a bank id - usually back by certificate[s], and you login with this to services[1][2]). Finland is the outlier, here, with their own service[3]. 0 - https://e-estonia.com/service/estonian-e-identity/id-card/ https://e-estonia.com/service/estonian-e-identity/id-card/ 1 - https://www.bankid.com/en/individuals/get-bankid https://www.bankid.com/en/individuals/get-bankid 2 - https://bankid.no/en/how-to-get-bankid https://bankid.no/en/how-to-get-bankid 3 - https://www.suomi.fi/instructions-and-support/identification/what-is-suomifi-e-identification https://www.suomi.fi/instructions-and-support/identification...

gnz11 15d ago
Yes, which is part of a wider narrative in the US that insists everything must be privatized because the government cannot be trusted or is otherwise incompetent.
- einsteinx2 14d ago
  The irony I’ve always found in that statement is that while it’s true that the government can’t be trusted and is generally incompetent, it’s also true of private companies. So even though it’s a true statement at face value, it’s still not a good argument for privatization which is just trading one set of incompetent and corrupt people for another set of the same but with even less oversight.
Gander5739 15d ago
https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE (Yes, Prime Minister)

navigate8310 14d ago

One can argue, this would be an unintentional tracking of the population by government

rswail 14d ago
One could argue that, but with a properly designed API, it could preserve anonymity while still providing businesses with the necessary validation.