8 ms·

Everyone knows the stats are false but I don't know an alternative. I've been unemployed after graduating for a year and because I didn't use unemployment bene

by floro 15d ago

Everyone knows the stats are false but I don't know an alternative. I've been unemployed after graduating for a year and because I didn't use unemployment benefits I didn't show up in the statistics in switzerland. I know many cases like mine.

Joel_Mckay 15d ago
It has been a rough year for those entering the job markets. However, I would suggest trying this service if you are willing to relocate for awhile. https://www.aerotek.com/en https://www.aerotek.com/en It is a firm that helped place a few friends over the years. Good luck =3
IanCal 15d ago
I’d be surprised if that’s how they measure it, it’s a common misunderstanding in the UK that this is what the stat means.
- stymaar 15d ago
  It's not uncommon to use that as a measurement in addition to the ILO's definition.
- DrProtic 15d ago
  I my country you have to regularly check in with the bureau for unemployment to be included in the stats, even though that bureau hadn’t found a job for anyone ever. I assume that’s how it works in many other countries. Unemployed is the one actively looking for a job, not the one that’s just to working. At least that’s how governments seem to look at it, and their way of figuring out who’s looking is incorrect.
  - dfdydx 15d ago
    Where do you live? Most countries use labour force surveys, it's orthogonal to registration to unemployment agencies.
    - DrProtic 15d ago
      I looked it up and I have to correct myself. So EU/Eurostat has surveys, Serbia does too (I’m from Serbia). However most countries have also national way of determining the rate that works how I described, and they may differ quite a lot from Eurostat. I guess EU introduced surveys with Eurostat so countries don’t juke the stats. For example - Denmark computes net unemployment straight from benefit and PES registers — administrative coverage is complete enough to do it without asking anyone. It still runs an LFS for the ILO figure. - Germany, Austria, Poland, Czechia, Spain publish monthly registered counts that dominate domestic debate, exactly the way NSZ figures circulate in Serbia. Each uses its own national definition, so none is comparable across borders. - Finland keeps a register series noticeably above its LFS count, similar in shape to the NSZ/ARS gap.
      - dfdydx 14d ago
        The ILO definition is comparable across countries
teiferer 15d ago
Then maybe it's time you look up how unemployment statistics are calculated in Switzerland and you will be surprised that you counted into them. It's unclear to me how folks with a university education can make such simplistic statements.
- esseph 15d ago
  > It's unclear to me how folks with a university education can make such simplistic statements. Because a "University Education" doesn't shield one from being ill informed, or simply wrong about a topic. I mean, did you get 100% on every test? Well, then...
  - teiferer 15d ago
    I surely didn't. But knowing to not know is an inherent and central lesson from higher education, one would think.
  - Oras 14d ago
    If the uni time didn’t trigger basic instinct of “researching” then that was a huge waste of time and money
- deleted 15d ago
  [deleted]
- iLoveOncall 15d ago
  [flagged]
  - locallost 14d ago
    Absolutely unnecessary simple minded low effort insult.
- throwaway50111 15d ago
  I do not think so. Ok, from the polls. But in the polls, it seem, I've quickly googled, if you've worked 1 h/week, they will not count you as unemployed. It is a different statistics. The registration in labor office, it is official employement, paid not less than min. wage, you can afford healthcare, etc. While the second poll does not care if you can afford healthcare or not.
Gareth321 15d ago
For this reason I use the employment rate instead. The unemployment rate, as you've correctly pointed out, is very narrowly defined. Obviously so as to trick voters into thinking that everything is fine. The employment rate can't really be gamed like that. The second major issue is under-employment. You could have a PhD in AI and as long as you're working 20 years a week at a pizza place, you're "employed." Unfortunately this isn't solved by using the employment rate. There are various ways to measure this but they all contain some measure of subjectivity.
- dfdydx 15d ago
  I don't understand the issue with saying that someone who is employed is ... employed. If the claim is that a single number (the unemployment rate) does not capture all the high dimensional features of society & work, then well of course! If the claim is that politicians & media focus too much on a single number to judge whether the labour market is doing ok, then sure? It's not a particularly contentious position though I don't see any way forward - even with a _single_ number to discuss, half this thread is making wrong claims about its methodology.
  - johnnyanmac 15d ago
    >If the claim is that politicians & media focus too much on a single number to judge whether the labour market is doing ok, then sure? Yes, the gaslighting is the biggest problem. If we can't admit there's a problem (and politicians never want to admit the numbers are bad unless [other team] is in charge) then we can't begin to approach a real solution. >It's not a particularly contentious position though You'd be surprised. Even colloquially, that single number is how a lot of people try to justify that "job market is good, people are lazy". Because that person is not in a situation of searching for a modern job. This thread getting it right or wrong is irrelevant to that end. This isn't a board full of policy makers nor economists (at least, I don't think it is...)
  - Gareth321 15d ago
    You're applying nuance to a discussion which so often does not lend itself to nuance. Successive governments love to focus on the unemployment figure as though that is the mark of a healthy jobs market. As you've pointed out, it's not. It's not even close. We should be speaking about it far less, and about other, more qualitative metrics far more. We don't, though, and the cynical reason is that the unemployment metric was designed to make things appear better than they are.
BrtByte 15d ago
The problem is that different unemployment statistics measure different things, and the headline number often gets interpreted as "everyone who wants a job but doesn't have one"
zajio1am 13d ago
Why? Here, being registered has significant benefits (direct benefits and health insurance paid by state) and minimal costs (once a month visiting labor bureau, doing some minimal effort) that only people i know that are unemployed and not being registered are ones with psychiatric conditions.

by floro 15d ago

Joel_Mckay 15d ago

It has been a rough year for those entering the job markets. However, I would suggest trying this service if you are willing to relocate for awhile. https://www.aerotek.com/en https://www.aerotek.com/en It is a firm that helped place a few friends over the years. Good luck =3

IanCal 15d ago

I’d be surprised if that’s how they measure it, it’s a common misunderstanding in the UK that this is what the stat means.

stymaar 15d ago
It's not uncommon to use that as a measurement in addition to the ILO's definition.
DrProtic 15d ago
I my country you have to regularly check in with the bureau for unemployment to be included in the stats, even though that bureau hadn’t found a job for anyone ever. I assume that’s how it works in many other countries. Unemployed is the one actively looking for a job, not the one that’s just to working. At least that’s how governments seem to look at it, and their way of figuring out who’s looking is incorrect.
- dfdydx 15d ago
  Where do you live? Most countries use labour force surveys, it's orthogonal to registration to unemployment agencies.
  - DrProtic 15d ago
    I looked it up and I have to correct myself. So EU/Eurostat has surveys, Serbia does too (I’m from Serbia). However most countries have also national way of determining the rate that works how I described, and they may differ quite a lot from Eurostat. I guess EU introduced surveys with Eurostat so countries don’t juke the stats. For example - Denmark computes net unemployment straight from benefit and PES registers — administrative coverage is complete enough to do it without asking anyone. It still runs an LFS for the ILO figure. - Germany, Austria, Poland, Czechia, Spain publish monthly registered counts that dominate domestic debate, exactly the way NSZ figures circulate in Serbia. Each uses its own national definition, so none is comparable across borders. - Finland keeps a register series noticeably above its LFS count, similar in shape to the NSZ/ARS gap.
    - dfdydx 14d ago
      The ILO definition is comparable across countries

teiferer 15d ago

Then maybe it's time you look up how unemployment statistics are calculated in Switzerland and you will be surprised that you counted into them. It's unclear to me how folks with a university education can make such simplistic statements.

esseph 15d ago
> It's unclear to me how folks with a university education can make such simplistic statements. Because a "University Education" doesn't shield one from being ill informed, or simply wrong about a topic. I mean, did you get 100% on every test? Well, then...
- teiferer 15d ago
  I surely didn't. But knowing to not know is an inherent and central lesson from higher education, one would think.
- Oras 14d ago
  If the uni time didn’t trigger basic instinct of “researching” then that was a huge waste of time and money
deleted 15d ago
[deleted]
iLoveOncall 15d ago
[flagged]
- locallost 14d ago
  Absolutely unnecessary simple minded low effort insult.
throwaway50111 15d ago
I do not think so. Ok, from the polls. But in the polls, it seem, I've quickly googled, if you've worked 1 h/week, they will not count you as unemployed. It is a different statistics. The registration in labor office, it is official employement, paid not less than min. wage, you can afford healthcare, etc. While the second poll does not care if you can afford healthcare or not.

Gareth321 15d ago

For this reason I use the employment rate instead. The unemployment rate, as you've correctly pointed out, is very narrowly defined. Obviously so as to trick voters into thinking that everything is fine. The employment rate can't really be gamed like that. The second major issue is under-employment. You could have a PhD in AI and as long as you're working 20 years a week at a pizza place, you're "employed." Unfortunately this isn't solved by using the employment rate. There are various ways to measure this but they all contain some measure of subjectivity.

dfdydx 15d ago
I don't understand the issue with saying that someone who is employed is ... employed. If the claim is that a single number (the unemployment rate) does not capture all the high dimensional features of society & work, then well of course! If the claim is that politicians & media focus too much on a single number to judge whether the labour market is doing ok, then sure? It's not a particularly contentious position though I don't see any way forward - even with a _single_ number to discuss, half this thread is making wrong claims about its methodology.
- johnnyanmac 15d ago
  >If the claim is that politicians & media focus too much on a single number to judge whether the labour market is doing ok, then sure? Yes, the gaslighting is the biggest problem. If we can't admit there's a problem (and politicians never want to admit the numbers are bad unless [other team] is in charge) then we can't begin to approach a real solution. >It's not a particularly contentious position though You'd be surprised. Even colloquially, that single number is how a lot of people try to justify that "job market is good, people are lazy". Because that person is not in a situation of searching for a modern job. This thread getting it right or wrong is irrelevant to that end. This isn't a board full of policy makers nor economists (at least, I don't think it is...)
- Gareth321 15d ago
  You're applying nuance to a discussion which so often does not lend itself to nuance. Successive governments love to focus on the unemployment figure as though that is the mark of a healthy jobs market. As you've pointed out, it's not. It's not even close. We should be speaking about it far less, and about other, more qualitative metrics far more. We don't, though, and the cynical reason is that the unemployment metric was designed to make things appear better than they are.

BrtByte 15d ago

The problem is that different unemployment statistics measure different things, and the headline number often gets interpreted as "everyone who wants a job but doesn't have one"

zajio1am 13d ago

Why? Here, being registered has significant benefits (direct benefits and health insurance paid by state) and minimal costs (once a month visiting labor bureau, doing some minimal effort) that only people i know that are unemployed and not being registered are ones with psychiatric conditions.