7 ms·

Reminds me of the story of an ex-Coca-Cola employee who offered to sell the secret recipe to Pepsi. Pepsi immediately let Coca-Cola know and it was handled. Not

by xvxvx 15d ago

Reminds me of the story of an ex-Coca-Cola employee who offered to sell the secret recipe to Pepsi. Pepsi immediately let Coca-Cola know and it was handled. Not a good look for OpenAI. They come off as desperate and unprofessional.

vasco 15d ago
Based on all evidence so far Sam Altman has negative scruples so I'm pretty sure this would be incentivised if anything.
jmclnx 15d ago
Not really OpenAI but today's society. I say this started with the "just do it and ask for forgiveness later" attitude that started maybe 20 or 30 years ago. At one time most people had respect, even people at the top, now many people just do what they want. Plus most of the time they get away with it.
- doodlebugging 15d ago
  We can fix this by holding each other accountable. Peer pressure and community sanctions of bad actors will result in the changes we need.
  - Jtsummers 15d ago
    > Peer pressure and community sanctions of bad actors will result in the changes we need. It's been demonstrated over centuries that this is unreliable. We end up needing a third party (commonly governments) to step in and establish rules and referee behavior. We wouldn't have an EPA, FCC, SEC, or many other organizations and laws if private actors could successfully police themselves.
    - doodlebugging 15d ago
      Private actors are inevitably part of groups. Those groups need to hold the individual members accountable. That obviously doesn't work any more in SV among wealth-obsessed tech-bros. It still works in other parts of the economy though.
  - blitzar 15d ago
    Guessing you haven't take the HR training - thats not allowed anymore.
    - doodlebugging 15d ago
      Evidently not in that industry.
- ViktorRay 15d ago
  One could make the argument that "just do it and ask for forgiveness later" is what the entire LLM industry is based on. They swallowed up all of society’s copyrighted texts without really asking for permission from anyone. This is just par for the course for them it seems unfortunately.
  - jimnotgym 15d ago
    One could argue that it is what Trevithick did to make better steam engines, or what Cisco did with routers. Or countless others. IP theft can really pay off.
- baxtr 15d ago
  Well the asking for forgiveness part is also missing in this case, entirely.
  - ted_dunning 15d ago
    In legal speak "please forgive me" is pronounced "so sue me!"
  - everybodyknows 15d ago
    It's actually forbidden, by advice of legal counsel, because in court the other side would present it as evidence of knowing culpability.
Jtsummers 15d ago
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr.drink https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr... - I had only vague memories of this, but here's an article from the time about it.
- 3ddds 15d ago
  [dead]
asdff 15d ago
Funny to imagine that food scientists at these companies must have cracked these recipes decades ago, and the secrecy might now only serve as a loyalty test for the uninitiated in the food and beverage guild.
himata4113 15d ago
That's because pepsi already had coca-cola's secret recipe. I'm sure if they didn't have it already they would have been more than happy to at least have some knowledge before reporting it, but not like they didn't have the talent, money or technology to reverse engineer it at least a decade ago at that point.
- bena 15d ago
  No, it's because Pepsi isn't trying to be Coke, they're trying to be better than Coke. So having the recipe is kind of moot. Even if they were to take the recipe and publish it for all to see, you would still need all of the other machinery that is Coca-Cola to make Coca-Cola. And then you have issues of quality. Coca-Cola has certain standards, it's not a guarantee that everyone else will have those same standards. Like, people buy the expensive brand of milk despite all milk being the same. It's one ingredient. With quality standards given by the government. There is really no room for interpretation.
  - himata4113 15d ago
    Is this an AI response? coca-cola was replicated by one guy and confirmed in blind taste test by several other people, no magical machinery needed to make it once you know the ingredients. What about quality? That has nothing to do with it. Of course they're trying to be the better coke, that's why they tried making coke with the same color with more sugar and made the flavors stronger.
    - s__s 15d ago
      Coca-Cola is the only company that can legally import and process raw coca leaves into a flavoring agent. It’s literally impossible to duplicate their exact recipe.
      - jjtheblunt 15d ago
        where did you find that? (super interesting)

by xvxvx 15d ago

vasco 15d ago

Based on all evidence so far Sam Altman has negative scruples so I'm pretty sure this would be incentivised if anything.

jmclnx 15d ago

Not really OpenAI but today's society. I say this started with the "just do it and ask for forgiveness later" attitude that started maybe 20 or 30 years ago. At one time most people had respect, even people at the top, now many people just do what they want. Plus most of the time they get away with it.

doodlebugging 15d ago
We can fix this by holding each other accountable. Peer pressure and community sanctions of bad actors will result in the changes we need.
- Jtsummers 15d ago
  > Peer pressure and community sanctions of bad actors will result in the changes we need. It's been demonstrated over centuries that this is unreliable. We end up needing a third party (commonly governments) to step in and establish rules and referee behavior. We wouldn't have an EPA, FCC, SEC, or many other organizations and laws if private actors could successfully police themselves.
  - doodlebugging 15d ago
    Private actors are inevitably part of groups. Those groups need to hold the individual members accountable. That obviously doesn't work any more in SV among wealth-obsessed tech-bros. It still works in other parts of the economy though.
- blitzar 15d ago
  Guessing you haven't take the HR training - thats not allowed anymore.
  - doodlebugging 15d ago
    Evidently not in that industry.
ViktorRay 15d ago
One could make the argument that "just do it and ask for forgiveness later" is what the entire LLM industry is based on. They swallowed up all of society’s copyrighted texts without really asking for permission from anyone. This is just par for the course for them it seems unfortunately.
- jimnotgym 15d ago
  One could argue that it is what Trevithick did to make better steam engines, or what Cisco did with routers. Or countless others. IP theft can really pay off.
baxtr 15d ago
Well the asking for forgiveness part is also missing in this case, entirely.
- ted_dunning 15d ago
  In legal speak "please forgive me" is pronounced "so sue me!"
- everybodyknows 15d ago
  It's actually forbidden, by advice of legal counsel, because in court the other side would present it as evidence of knowing culpability.

Jtsummers 15d ago

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr.drink https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr... - I had only vague memories of this, but here's an article from the time about it.

3ddds 15d ago
[dead]

asdff 15d ago

Funny to imagine that food scientists at these companies must have cracked these recipes decades ago, and the secrecy might now only serve as a loyalty test for the uninitiated in the food and beverage guild.

himata4113 15d ago

That's because pepsi already had coca-cola's secret recipe. I'm sure if they didn't have it already they would have been more than happy to at least have some knowledge before reporting it, but not like they didn't have the talent, money or technology to reverse engineer it at least a decade ago at that point.

bena 15d ago
No, it's because Pepsi isn't trying to be Coke, they're trying to be better than Coke. So having the recipe is kind of moot. Even if they were to take the recipe and publish it for all to see, you would still need all of the other machinery that is Coca-Cola to make Coca-Cola. And then you have issues of quality. Coca-Cola has certain standards, it's not a guarantee that everyone else will have those same standards. Like, people buy the expensive brand of milk despite all milk being the same. It's one ingredient. With quality standards given by the government. There is really no room for interpretation.
- himata4113 15d ago
  Is this an AI response? coca-cola was replicated by one guy and confirmed in blind taste test by several other people, no magical machinery needed to make it once you know the ingredients. What about quality? That has nothing to do with it. Of course they're trying to be the better coke, that's why they tried making coke with the same color with more sugar and made the flavors stronger.
  - s__s 15d ago
    Coca-Cola is the only company that can legally import and process raw coca leaves into a flavoring agent. It’s literally impossible to duplicate their exact recipe.
    - jjtheblunt 15d ago
      where did you find that? (super interesting)