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Have they? I know a lot of my peers went to college for free with the Millennium Scholarship. But so many young people vape now that it's becoming cool to smo

Have they? I know a lot of my peers went to college for free with the Millennium Scholarship. But so many young people vape now that it's becoming cool to smoke analog cigarettes. I barely knew anyone who smoked 10-20y ago. Many people that age now do.

deleted 21d ago
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SoftTalker 21d ago
Smoking tobacco is something people have done for centuries. Pretty unlikely that we'd eliminate it in a few decades.
- RicardoLuis0 21d ago
  smoking tobacco is bad, but smoking cigarettes is much, much worse because of all the extra shit that's added in to make them even more addictive (and more carcinogenic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarette...
  - rwyinuse 21d ago
    If you inhale the smoke, it's quite irrelevant whether smoking an industrial cigarette, pipe or a hand-crafted cigar without additives. You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough. Smoke is always carcinogenic. I don't really get the point when there are many ways of getting nicotine without the smoke.
    - SoftTalker 21d ago
      I don't smoke, but when I've talked to smokers a lot of it is about the ritual. Filling the pipe, cutting and smelling the cigar, or removing the cigarette from the pack, tapping it, lighting it up, the taste and smell of the smoke, it's all part of it not just the nicotine.
    - d1sxeyes 21d ago
      That’s not true. The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%, not “probably” (somewhere between 15 and 30 times higher risk than a non-smoker). In fact, only about half of smokers die prematurely from their smoking. I mean, I’m not saying start smoking, but also let’s at least have accurate facts.
      - shakna 20d ago
        > By age 80y, an estimated 48.3% of current-smokers (41.1% never-smokers) will develop cancer, and 14% will develop lung cancer [0] "The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%". Yup. That's probably true. It is also incredibly misleading, because that isn't the only cancer you are at risk from. So... I wouldn't call what you just said, an accurate fact. [0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.33685 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.33685
        d1sxeyes 20d ago
        OP said: “You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough”. That’s not true, and is why I focused on lung cancer. Don’t forget that smokers don’t just die of cancer, so even if we take your source, we still don’t have the proper picture. That’s why I also added the point that about half of smokers die prematurely due to their smoking, because I was not planning to exhaustively list every possible cause of death which could be caused by smoking.
    - compass_copium 21d ago
      You're not wrong about smoke always being bad--there's a reason American Spirits have to have a disclaimer about "additive-free" not meaning healthier. Tobacco takes up alpha emitters from the soil and leaves them in your body--never good. Pipe and cigar smokers are much less likely to smoke a pack's worth of tobacco a day. You also don't inhale them into your lungs, you hold the smoke in your mouth. Smoking cigarettes is less about getting nicotine and more about having something to do when you are stressed etc.
      - wyre 21d ago
        Fun fact: the stress that smoking cigarettes relieves is only the stress caused by the addiction/relapse from nicotine. Surely, there might be some placebo effects going on, but nicotine is not a stress relieving chemical. So really it is just about getting nicotine, but over time the ritual around the addiction adds to the addiction.
        compass_copium 21d ago
        True, but I am vaguely aware of people taking like Zyn for performance enhancement reasons, and I don't think anyone starts smoking like that.
        wyre 21d ago
        Zyn is freebase nicotine which does show some signs of being performance enhancing; mostly around focus. There are a lot of people with unmedicated ADHD self-medicating with Zyn, or vapes, or smoking due to the this.
      - 4petesake 21d ago
        Well, I suppose less radiation could be one of the advantages of a crack habit
    - jimbob45 21d ago
      It’s true and smoking marijuana is arguably as harmful as cigarettes but the pro-weed crowd throws a fit any time anyone points that out.
      - deleted 21d ago
        [deleted]
- AlecSchueler 21d ago
  We've been harming children for even longer
- hoppp 21d ago
  Europeans started smoking tobacco in 1492 and it spread super fast. It probably can't be eliminated completely, but if they slowly make it illegal for young people to start the habit it can be reduced
loeg 21d ago
Vaping is distinctly less harmful than smoking.
- HPMOR 21d ago
  I actually do not know if this is true.
  - hoppp 21d ago
    Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage. So vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters.
    - nobody9999 21d ago
      >Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage. Propylene glycol covers the alvoelae and over time (~15-20 years) blocks uptake of oxygen, causing respiratory failure and a slow, painful death. Vegetable glycerine coats the lungs and over time (~10-25 years) blocks fluid from draining out of the lungs, causing congestive heart failure/pulmonary edema. Which ends up causing one to drown in their own bodily fluids and a slow, painful death. If you disagree, please cite any long term studies that disprove the above. Thanks!
      - hoppp 20d ago
        I do not disagree, but can you cite the studies proving this? Also proof that people did die from respiratory failure due to propylene glycol inhaling? You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies.
        nobody9999 20d ago
        >You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies. My point was that we don't know what the long-term effects of vaping are. Because there hasn't been time for the longitudinal studies that will tell us what those effects are. I requested studies refuting those claims because I know they don't exist. I also know that studies confirming such claims don't exist either. Making the statement that "...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters" is disingenuous because we have no idea what long-term (note that qualification) effects vaping does or does not have. It might be that vaping increases human lifespan by 80%. Or it might be that vaping decreases lifespan by 25%. Or it might be that vaping either causes or prevents dementia. We just don't know. It may be that none of those things apply. Who knows? Not me. And not you or anyone else. Yet. Because vaping hasn't been widely used for long enough to make claims about its long-term effects. My claims are just as valid as yours ("...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters"). That was my point. My apologies for expecting you to make the conceptual leap and understand the above by making similarly unsupported claims as the one you made. I guess that wasn't the best way to do so. I'll try to do better in the future. I hope I've cleared up your confusion.
temporallobe 21d ago
Analog cigarettes! I love how “analog” has become synonymous with everything more manual, natural, even or better.
- californical 21d ago
  My favorite is the “acoustic bike” instead of electric bike (the joke comes from guitars, I think)
  - account42 21d ago
    I'll start calling normal chairs acoustic chairs now to stretch this joke even further.
- AlecSchueler 21d ago
  ICCs? Internal combustion cigarettes
- dlandis 21d ago
  Alternative Meanings (Noun)Comparable Thing: Something similar or comparable to another thing (also spelled analogue).
Melatonic 21d ago
Maybe you know different young people now ? I saw way more smoking 10-20 years ago. All have quit now. I see a good amount vape but rarely see cigarettes these days
- dprkh 21d ago
  I can't go outside in Toronto without having to smell cigarettes/cannabis.
esseph 21d ago
> I barely knew anyone who smoked 10-20y ago What country? In a lot of the US, smoking sections still existed in restaurants then. Just checked my home town, some bans were enacted in 2014 and existing restaurants and bars are still grandfathered in!
iso1631 20d ago
In England, in 2000 25% of 15 year olds regularly smoked, by 2023 it was 2.5% For the 11-15 group as a whole it dropped from 11% to 1.2% Vaping in that 11-15 group was 5% in 2023 So combined smoking and vaping in young people halved from 11% in 2000 to 6% in 2023, almost all of which is vaping https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Youth-Smoking-Fact-Sheet.pdf https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Youth-Smoking-Fact-Sheet.pdf https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-young-people-in-great-britain#1-2-vaping-by-age https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-...

deleted 21d ago

[deleted]

SoftTalker 21d ago

Smoking tobacco is something people have done for centuries. Pretty unlikely that we'd eliminate it in a few decades.

RicardoLuis0 21d ago
smoking tobacco is bad, but smoking cigarettes is much, much worse because of all the extra shit that's added in to make them even more addictive (and more carcinogenic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarette...
- rwyinuse 21d ago
  If you inhale the smoke, it's quite irrelevant whether smoking an industrial cigarette, pipe or a hand-crafted cigar without additives. You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough. Smoke is always carcinogenic. I don't really get the point when there are many ways of getting nicotine without the smoke.
  - SoftTalker 21d ago
    I don't smoke, but when I've talked to smokers a lot of it is about the ritual. Filling the pipe, cutting and smelling the cigar, or removing the cigarette from the pack, tapping it, lighting it up, the taste and smell of the smoke, it's all part of it not just the nicotine.
  - d1sxeyes 21d ago
    That’s not true. The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%, not “probably” (somewhere between 15 and 30 times higher risk than a non-smoker). In fact, only about half of smokers die prematurely from their smoking. I mean, I’m not saying start smoking, but also let’s at least have accurate facts.
    - shakna 20d ago
      > By age 80y, an estimated 48.3% of current-smokers (41.1% never-smokers) will develop cancer, and 14% will develop lung cancer [0] "The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%". Yup. That's probably true. It is also incredibly misleading, because that isn't the only cancer you are at risk from. So... I wouldn't call what you just said, an accurate fact. [0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.33685 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.33685
      - d1sxeyes 20d ago
        OP said: “You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough”. That’s not true, and is why I focused on lung cancer. Don’t forget that smokers don’t just die of cancer, so even if we take your source, we still don’t have the proper picture. That’s why I also added the point that about half of smokers die prematurely due to their smoking, because I was not planning to exhaustively list every possible cause of death which could be caused by smoking.
  - compass_copium 21d ago
    You're not wrong about smoke always being bad--there's a reason American Spirits have to have a disclaimer about "additive-free" not meaning healthier. Tobacco takes up alpha emitters from the soil and leaves them in your body--never good. Pipe and cigar smokers are much less likely to smoke a pack's worth of tobacco a day. You also don't inhale them into your lungs, you hold the smoke in your mouth. Smoking cigarettes is less about getting nicotine and more about having something to do when you are stressed etc.
    - wyre 21d ago
      Fun fact: the stress that smoking cigarettes relieves is only the stress caused by the addiction/relapse from nicotine. Surely, there might be some placebo effects going on, but nicotine is not a stress relieving chemical. So really it is just about getting nicotine, but over time the ritual around the addiction adds to the addiction.
      - compass_copium 21d ago
        True, but I am vaguely aware of people taking like Zyn for performance enhancement reasons, and I don't think anyone starts smoking like that.
        wyre 21d ago
        Zyn is freebase nicotine which does show some signs of being performance enhancing; mostly around focus. There are a lot of people with unmedicated ADHD self-medicating with Zyn, or vapes, or smoking due to the this.
    - 4petesake 21d ago
      Well, I suppose less radiation could be one of the advantages of a crack habit
  - jimbob45 21d ago
    It’s true and smoking marijuana is arguably as harmful as cigarettes but the pro-weed crowd throws a fit any time anyone points that out.
    - deleted 21d ago
      [deleted]
AlecSchueler 21d ago
We've been harming children for even longer
hoppp 21d ago
Europeans started smoking tobacco in 1492 and it spread super fast. It probably can't be eliminated completely, but if they slowly make it illegal for young people to start the habit it can be reduced

loeg 21d ago

Vaping is distinctly less harmful than smoking.

HPMOR 21d ago
I actually do not know if this is true.
- hoppp 21d ago
  Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage. So vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters.
  - nobody9999 21d ago
    >Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage. Propylene glycol covers the alvoelae and over time (~15-20 years) blocks uptake of oxygen, causing respiratory failure and a slow, painful death. Vegetable glycerine coats the lungs and over time (~10-25 years) blocks fluid from draining out of the lungs, causing congestive heart failure/pulmonary edema. Which ends up causing one to drown in their own bodily fluids and a slow, painful death. If you disagree, please cite any long term studies that disprove the above. Thanks!
    - hoppp 20d ago
      I do not disagree, but can you cite the studies proving this? Also proof that people did die from respiratory failure due to propylene glycol inhaling? You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies.
      - nobody9999 20d ago
        >You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies. My point was that we don't know what the long-term effects of vaping are. Because there hasn't been time for the longitudinal studies that will tell us what those effects are. I requested studies refuting those claims because I know they don't exist. I also know that studies confirming such claims don't exist either. Making the statement that "...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters" is disingenuous because we have no idea what long-term (note that qualification) effects vaping does or does not have. It might be that vaping increases human lifespan by 80%. Or it might be that vaping decreases lifespan by 25%. Or it might be that vaping either causes or prevents dementia. We just don't know. It may be that none of those things apply. Who knows? Not me. And not you or anyone else. Yet. Because vaping hasn't been widely used for long enough to make claims about its long-term effects. My claims are just as valid as yours ("...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters"). That was my point. My apologies for expecting you to make the conceptual leap and understand the above by making similarly unsupported claims as the one you made. I guess that wasn't the best way to do so. I'll try to do better in the future. I hope I've cleared up your confusion.

temporallobe 21d ago

Analog cigarettes! I love how “analog” has become synonymous with everything more manual, natural, even or better.

californical 21d ago
My favorite is the “acoustic bike” instead of electric bike (the joke comes from guitars, I think)
- account42 21d ago
  I'll start calling normal chairs acoustic chairs now to stretch this joke even further.
AlecSchueler 21d ago
ICCs? Internal combustion cigarettes
dlandis 21d ago
Alternative Meanings (Noun)Comparable Thing: Something similar or comparable to another thing (also spelled analogue).

Melatonic 21d ago

Maybe you know different young people now ? I saw way more smoking 10-20 years ago. All have quit now. I see a good amount vape but rarely see cigarettes these days

dprkh 21d ago
I can't go outside in Toronto without having to smell cigarettes/cannabis.

esseph 21d ago

> I barely knew anyone who smoked 10-20y ago What country? In a lot of the US, smoking sections still existed in restaurants then. Just checked my home town, some bans were enacted in 2014 and existing restaurants and bars are still grandfathered in!

iso1631 20d ago

In England, in 2000 25% of 15 year olds regularly smoked, by 2023 it was 2.5% For the 11-15 group as a whole it dropped from 11% to 1.2% Vaping in that 11-15 group was 5% in 2023 So combined smoking and vaping in young people halved from 11% in 2000 to 6% in 2023, almost all of which is vaping https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Youth-Smoking-Fact-Sheet.pdf https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Youth-Smoking-Fact-Sheet.pdf https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-young-people-in-great-britain#1-2-vaping-by-age https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-...