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The antidote to that would be for Meta to reveal all their internal communications. But they'll never do that because their own words and actions are likely far

by gtowey 25d ago

The antidote to that would be for Meta to reveal all their internal communications. But they'll never do that because their own words and actions are likely far more damning than any story the DOJ could weave. The trend I have noticed is anytime the actual truth leaks from these actors and companies, it's so much more evil than I could have imagined. Like the recent tell-all book from someone who worked directly with Zuckerberg, Careless People -- I was shocked at just how amoral those in leadership there. I had a dim view of them before, but their actual words and deeds were worse than I could have imagined.

voakbasda 25d ago
The fun part is their internal communication might be relatively exculpatory, but a good prosecutor can find the crumb or two to hang them. "Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find something in them to hang him." — Cardinal Richelieu (Armand Jean du Plessis)
- windexh8er 25d ago
  > The fun part is their internal communication might be relatively exculpatory, but a good prosecutor can find the crumb or two to hang them. To the first part of that sentence: maybe, but I highly doubt it and these would be the last people on earth to give the benefit of the doubt to. Zuckerberg, and his peers, are operating in an "us vs them" mentality and we should also prosecute them in the exact same manner. They don't care about their users and they don't view them as humans or equals in any regard. They are parasites who only consume, cast blame, have zero interest in what's fair and treat everything around them as a capitalistic game of who can hoard the most. I would love to see Zuckerberg have to defend himself in a court of law and, instead of dodge every question, have to answer to his worldly peers in a truthful manner. The hatred towards a person like that must weigh on him. The best part about him is Facebook was an initiative in his own failings amongst his personal life. And it never filled that void. Zuckerberg is probably still socially broke on the inside. He's a terrible human through and through.
  - gtowey 25d ago
    Indeed. Especially since we know that they know that they reserve the worst of it for face to face conversation and nothing gets recorded and it's all for the sake of maintaining plausible deniability. When asked about their private conversations they can and do lie.
andai 25d ago
> I mean, it's not like we could just demand to see the code that's governing our lives. What right do we have to poke around in Facebook's private affairs like that? -xkcd 1390
- smsm42 25d ago
  I think if facebook code governs your life, the major part of the fault does not lie with facebook. It is possible to live not being chained to the feed 24x7.
  - pstuart 25d ago
    Absolutely. But many others are, and they can have an impact on your life even if you never logged in.
    - ethbr1 24d ago
      The tyranny of democracy is that you only need to influence the most susceptible 50%+1.
      - pstuart 24d ago
        So far it seems to be the least-worst option. I wish there was a way to enable a citizen to vote their choice but do so in at least a reasonably informed way.
        ethbr1 24d ago
        The greatest strength of democracy is an ironclad guarantee that even people holding ideas opposed to current leaders', if there are enough likeminded people, can win power. That's what lets democracies change, even radically, through elections rather than revolutions. Unfortunately... the universal and equal suffrage that's a cornerstone of that also precludes any sorting by authority of vote value. Otherwise you inevitably end up with authority putting its thumb on the scales, similar to Iranian democracy (by design).
Aurornis 25d ago
A key part of trials like this is the discovery process, which would surface a lot of the documents and emails that supposedly contain this information you’re talking about. If the lawyers found it, they’d be using it. I think the takeaway from this is that they decided their own catchphrase was more compelling than any language they found in those documents.
- gtowey 25d ago
  I know about discovery. I have a hard time believing that Meta is being perfectly transparent or comprehensive in what they disclose to the prosecution.
  - ethbr1 24d ago
    I think it's fair to say there's a lot of internal Meta comms that are undiscoverable because they intentionally no longer exist. See Google's infamous 'Do we have deletion turned on for this chat?' executive records. Companies aren't dumb, and the easiest way to prevent discovery is to have a policy that ensures prompt document destruction. Luckily, humans (especially powerful ones) are terrible at adhering to often inconvenient opsec, hence the bits that do dribble out. But it's worth not forgetting those are just bits...
intended 25d ago
If you are into the book, I would highly recommend commentary from people who were also at the firm at the same time and currently working on the field. https://anchorchange.substack.com/p/careless-people-is-careless https://anchorchange.substack.com/p/careless-people-is-carel...

by gtowey 25d ago

voakbasda 25d ago

The fun part is their internal communication might be relatively exculpatory, but a good prosecutor can find the crumb or two to hang them. "Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find something in them to hang him." — Cardinal Richelieu (Armand Jean du Plessis)

windexh8er 25d ago
> The fun part is their internal communication might be relatively exculpatory, but a good prosecutor can find the crumb or two to hang them. To the first part of that sentence: maybe, but I highly doubt it and these would be the last people on earth to give the benefit of the doubt to. Zuckerberg, and his peers, are operating in an "us vs them" mentality and we should also prosecute them in the exact same manner. They don't care about their users and they don't view them as humans or equals in any regard. They are parasites who only consume, cast blame, have zero interest in what's fair and treat everything around them as a capitalistic game of who can hoard the most. I would love to see Zuckerberg have to defend himself in a court of law and, instead of dodge every question, have to answer to his worldly peers in a truthful manner. The hatred towards a person like that must weigh on him. The best part about him is Facebook was an initiative in his own failings amongst his personal life. And it never filled that void. Zuckerberg is probably still socially broke on the inside. He's a terrible human through and through.
- gtowey 25d ago
  Indeed. Especially since we know that they know that they reserve the worst of it for face to face conversation and nothing gets recorded and it's all for the sake of maintaining plausible deniability. When asked about their private conversations they can and do lie.

andai 25d ago

> I mean, it's not like we could just demand to see the code that's governing our lives. What right do we have to poke around in Facebook's private affairs like that? -xkcd 1390

smsm42 25d ago
I think if facebook code governs your life, the major part of the fault does not lie with facebook. It is possible to live not being chained to the feed 24x7.
- pstuart 25d ago
  Absolutely. But many others are, and they can have an impact on your life even if you never logged in.
  - ethbr1 24d ago
    The tyranny of democracy is that you only need to influence the most susceptible 50%+1.
    - pstuart 24d ago
      So far it seems to be the least-worst option. I wish there was a way to enable a citizen to vote their choice but do so in at least a reasonably informed way.
      - ethbr1 24d ago
        The greatest strength of democracy is an ironclad guarantee that even people holding ideas opposed to current leaders', if there are enough likeminded people, can win power. That's what lets democracies change, even radically, through elections rather than revolutions. Unfortunately... the universal and equal suffrage that's a cornerstone of that also precludes any sorting by authority of vote value. Otherwise you inevitably end up with authority putting its thumb on the scales, similar to Iranian democracy (by design).

Aurornis 25d ago

A key part of trials like this is the discovery process, which would surface a lot of the documents and emails that supposedly contain this information you’re talking about. If the lawyers found it, they’d be using it. I think the takeaway from this is that they decided their own catchphrase was more compelling than any language they found in those documents.

gtowey 25d ago
I know about discovery. I have a hard time believing that Meta is being perfectly transparent or comprehensive in what they disclose to the prosecution.
- ethbr1 24d ago
  I think it's fair to say there's a lot of internal Meta comms that are undiscoverable because they intentionally no longer exist. See Google's infamous 'Do we have deletion turned on for this chat?' executive records. Companies aren't dumb, and the easiest way to prevent discovery is to have a policy that ensures prompt document destruction. Luckily, humans (especially powerful ones) are terrible at adhering to often inconvenient opsec, hence the bits that do dribble out. But it's worth not forgetting those are just bits...

intended 25d ago

If you are into the book, I would highly recommend commentary from people who were also at the firm at the same time and currently working on the field. https://anchorchange.substack.com/p/careless-people-is-careless https://anchorchange.substack.com/p/careless-people-is-carel...