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F. Scott Fitzgerald's test of top-tier intelligence - > Holding two opposing views in the mind means accepting two contradictory ideas at the same time without

by bitpush 1mo ago

F. Scott Fitzgerald's test of top-tier intelligence - > Holding two opposing views in the mind means accepting two contradictory ideas at the same time without needing to pick one side or rush to a simple answer I continue to use Apple products because they are top class even though everytime I think of Tim Cook in the Oval Office presenting the gold plaque to the current president, it makes me wanna puke. World isnt black or white.

phyzome 1mo ago
Ah, Google must be very intelligent indeed, then.
Cider9986 1mo ago
The reason I mentioned it is because Google seems to have a strange aversion to E2EE. Apple has added the option to iCloud but Google only has one consumer facing E2EE product, Google messages. A password manager is the most obviously important place to use it. I can't name another password manager that isn't.
- rpedroso 1mo ago
  How many customers are using Google Password Manager? How much revenue does it generate? What would it cost to add E2EE? How would it affect the UX? How much revenue would it generate? What projects would have to be de-prioritized to fund this work? I agree, a password manager without E2EE is unusable in my eyes. However, I can also understand the institutional reasons this might be the case. I don't think it reflects an organizational aversion to E2EE.
  - ameliaquining 1mo ago
    Google Password Manager does in fact have E2EE. It's quite straightforward to enable. Your interlocutor is complaining that it's not the default, which I'm quite sure is a deliberate decision made on the grounds that the typical user, the one for whom the default matters because they won't tweak their settings, needs workable account recovery more than they need defense against the specific kinds of security threats that make E2EE relevant.
    - Cider9986 1mo ago
      LastPass, designed for regular users and one of the most popular password managers, had a breach of user vaults. If they hadn't implemented E2EE then it would have been more devastating than it was (crypto wallets were found from vaults with weak master passwords).
      - ameliaquining 1mo ago
        Google's security record at avoiding that kind of breach is just about the best in the industry, and their system that handles custody of password manager secrets is designed to withstand even a compromise of their production infrastructure (https://security.googleblog.com/2022/10/SecurityofPasskeysintheGooglePasswordManager.html https://security.googleblog.com/2022/10/SecurityofPasskeysin...). I would advise almost all users to worry more about getting locked out of their password database than about that. Of course, I would also advise almost all users not to self-custody cryptocurrency.
        Cider9986 1mo ago
        Your link is about them using E2EE not that they can be as secure as E2EE for users without it. Users would lose their passkeys if they lost all secrets and devices. Google couldn't recover them. They can still and should still continue using great security practices while protecting E2EE data. >Of course, I would also advise almost all users not to self-custody cryptocurrency. There's no point in crypto if you're not holding your own keys. It's the antithesis of cryptocurrency. People can have highly secure self custody wallets on a modern iPhone or Pixel. And their seeds would have been safe if LastPass didn't have terrible security or they used long passphrases.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
- skybrian 1mo ago
  I'm pretty sure I've seen it sometimes in video calls. But it might only be two-way conversations?
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    That was my bad on the complete statement. If I could still edit I would say "that I know of".
michaelmrose 1mo ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 1mo ago
  > This is generally the test of extreme stupidity because those so adept rarely realize there is even a contradiction because they lack in critical thinking. > You can separate Cook is a garbage person We've banned this account. We've asked you politely, several times over the years to observe the guidelines. In recent times you've been acting more than ever like they don't apply to you. They do apply to you just as they apply to everyone and it's time we made that clear. In this case, someone has raised the notion that sometimes someone can hold two legitimate positions that are contradictory, which, as the original commenter mentioned, is attributable to F. Scott Fitzgerald but has been noted in different ways by many reputable philosophers and scholars through history. In your reply, you've effectively sneered at anyone who wrestles with such contradictions, including the parent commenter, then gone on to use the term “garbage person” for another human. Other terms you've used in past months include: most humans are dumber than a box of rocks literally not figuratively the 1930s Nazis fools idiots morons cretins It's always a challenge for us to fairly moderate political discussions on HN. We want people to be able to discuss important, difficult topics and ideally to work together to develop ways of making the world better. HN is a place for builders, and that can and should include building solutions for the difficult problems the world faces, or at least talking about how we could. Identifying and critiquing flaws in the ideas and actions of one's political or intellectual opponents is fine and healthy. Continually demeaning individuals or groups with dehumanizing or contemptuous epithets and caricatured characterizations makes this place toxic and drives away people who come here with the expectation of having intellectually gratifying discussions with reasonable people. When people continue to break the guidelines, even after several appeals from moderators, we have to assume they have no intention to use the site as intended and in fact want to be banned. If that's not the case, you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com to discuss how you can demonstrate that.
  - garbagewoman 1mo ago
    Ehh, “dumber than a box of rocks” or similar is more hyperbole than dehumanising speech. Dehumanising speech is calling someone something like a cockroach or a rat. Bit of an overreaction here mate
eventualcomp 1mo ago
Why are we citing novelists for appeals to authority on something like intelligence. I thought this might be a figure on developmental psychology to give value to your comment, but it's not even that. Should I be citing George Orwell's doublethink to counter you?
agilemonkey 29d ago
That must be the most convenient excuse I have seen to avoid taking responsibility. "I know the raw materials for these clothes come from slavery, but hey, what can I do ? They're the softest."

by bitpush 1mo ago

phyzome 1mo ago

Ah, Google must be very intelligent indeed, then.

Cider9986 1mo ago

The reason I mentioned it is because Google seems to have a strange aversion to E2EE. Apple has added the option to iCloud but Google only has one consumer facing E2EE product, Google messages. A password manager is the most obviously important place to use it. I can't name another password manager that isn't.

rpedroso 1mo ago
How many customers are using Google Password Manager? How much revenue does it generate? What would it cost to add E2EE? How would it affect the UX? How much revenue would it generate? What projects would have to be de-prioritized to fund this work? I agree, a password manager without E2EE is unusable in my eyes. However, I can also understand the institutional reasons this might be the case. I don't think it reflects an organizational aversion to E2EE.
- ameliaquining 1mo ago
  Google Password Manager does in fact have E2EE. It's quite straightforward to enable. Your interlocutor is complaining that it's not the default, which I'm quite sure is a deliberate decision made on the grounds that the typical user, the one for whom the default matters because they won't tweak their settings, needs workable account recovery more than they need defense against the specific kinds of security threats that make E2EE relevant.
  - Cider9986 1mo ago
    LastPass, designed for regular users and one of the most popular password managers, had a breach of user vaults. If they hadn't implemented E2EE then it would have been more devastating than it was (crypto wallets were found from vaults with weak master passwords).
    - ameliaquining 1mo ago
      Google's security record at avoiding that kind of breach is just about the best in the industry, and their system that handles custody of password manager secrets is designed to withstand even a compromise of their production infrastructure (https://security.googleblog.com/2022/10/SecurityofPasskeysintheGooglePasswordManager.html https://security.googleblog.com/2022/10/SecurityofPasskeysin...). I would advise almost all users to worry more about getting locked out of their password database than about that. Of course, I would also advise almost all users not to self-custody cryptocurrency.
      - Cider9986 1mo ago
        Your link is about them using E2EE not that they can be as secure as E2EE for users without it. Users would lose their passkeys if they lost all secrets and devices. Google couldn't recover them. They can still and should still continue using great security practices while protecting E2EE data. >Of course, I would also advise almost all users not to self-custody cryptocurrency. There's no point in crypto if you're not holding your own keys. It's the antithesis of cryptocurrency. People can have highly secure self custody wallets on a modern iPhone or Pixel. And their seeds would have been safe if LastPass didn't have terrible security or they used long passphrases.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
skybrian 1mo ago
I'm pretty sure I've seen it sometimes in video calls. But it might only be two-way conversations?
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  That was my bad on the complete statement. If I could still edit I would say "that I know of".

michaelmrose 1mo ago

[flagged]

tomhow 1mo ago
> This is generally the test of extreme stupidity because those so adept rarely realize there is even a contradiction because they lack in critical thinking. > You can separate Cook is a garbage person We've banned this account. We've asked you politely, several times over the years to observe the guidelines. In recent times you've been acting more than ever like they don't apply to you. They do apply to you just as they apply to everyone and it's time we made that clear. In this case, someone has raised the notion that sometimes someone can hold two legitimate positions that are contradictory, which, as the original commenter mentioned, is attributable to F. Scott Fitzgerald but has been noted in different ways by many reputable philosophers and scholars through history. In your reply, you've effectively sneered at anyone who wrestles with such contradictions, including the parent commenter, then gone on to use the term “garbage person” for another human. Other terms you've used in past months include: most humans are dumber than a box of rocks literally not figuratively the 1930s Nazis fools idiots morons cretins It's always a challenge for us to fairly moderate political discussions on HN. We want people to be able to discuss important, difficult topics and ideally to work together to develop ways of making the world better. HN is a place for builders, and that can and should include building solutions for the difficult problems the world faces, or at least talking about how we could. Identifying and critiquing flaws in the ideas and actions of one's political or intellectual opponents is fine and healthy. Continually demeaning individuals or groups with dehumanizing or contemptuous epithets and caricatured characterizations makes this place toxic and drives away people who come here with the expectation of having intellectually gratifying discussions with reasonable people. When people continue to break the guidelines, even after several appeals from moderators, we have to assume they have no intention to use the site as intended and in fact want to be banned. If that's not the case, you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com to discuss how you can demonstrate that.
- garbagewoman 1mo ago
  Ehh, “dumber than a box of rocks” or similar is more hyperbole than dehumanising speech. Dehumanising speech is calling someone something like a cockroach or a rat. Bit of an overreaction here mate

eventualcomp 1mo ago

Why are we citing novelists for appeals to authority on something like intelligence. I thought this might be a figure on developmental psychology to give value to your comment, but it's not even that. Should I be citing George Orwell's doublethink to counter you?

agilemonkey 29d ago

That must be the most convenient excuse I have seen to avoid taking responsibility. "I know the raw materials for these clothes come from slavery, but hey, what can I do ? They're the softest."