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Coin-sized device can hack a Boeing 737
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- LoganDark 1mo ago> “Our technical experts are confident that the layers of protection in place on the airplane, including within the system design and the operating environment, provide sufficient mitigation to significantly limit the feasibility and risk of real-world attacks,” the statement reads. So "We don't expect hackers to figure it out"
- x______________ 1mo ago>So "We don't expect hackers to figure it out" People
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- userbinator 1mo agoone that's routinely within reach of maintenance workers or other airport and airline staff between flights You already trust them (as well as the pilots) every time with your flight.
- pudgywalsh 1mo agoAre these the same maintenance workers that have access to even more sensitive parts of the airplane like the avionics compartment and its miles of wiring? Wait until they find out your mechanic has unfettered access to your car's OBD port when you hand them the keys. They could install a COIN SIZED device on the CAN bus and you'd never know. Some people do this voluntarily in exchange for a discount on their insurance. There's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. I forgot only the nefarious ones wear yellow reflective vests and earmuffs.
- b112 1mo agoThere's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want, is to hit the brakes in my car, and suddenly they're less/more sensitive, due to an update the night before, and it really does matter especially on snow/ice. And such updates happen. I also don't want a perfectly good, 100% working car to suddenly degrade in experience because "Wups! Sorry! Last update broke <whatever>, we'll update within the month to fix!". It's just pure, unbridled dumb. I recently bought a car, and the dealer tried to sell me an extended warranty. What? It's under a full warranty right now, and yes, my region has very strong warranty and anti-lemon laws. But my point is, they kept saying "there's a lot of complex and expensive electronics in this car, you're going to need an extended warranty". Um, what? Hello? You just explained that the car breaks down a lot because it's complex? So complex that there are more frequent, highly expensive issues? How is that a plus? If a car is "too complex" to roll out the assembly line, without needing updates to modules on a monthly basis for years, it's the opposite of positive. I've had multiple BCM(body control module) updates, updates to every single module in the car. There shouldn't be enough code to cause issues here, it should be simple, simple, simple. But it's not. It's complex and difficult to make bug free. And that makes me oh so very comfortable as I drive down the road.
- _puk 1mo agoBut you bought the car
- matherial 1mo ago> This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want Most people don't think about it when buying a car, or they have no practical way to evaluate it. So it is one of these things you probably need to fix with legislation, except the legislators love the idea too because sensor-rich, always-online cars give them more tools to police the society. I don't really know what to do with that, short of going neo-Luddite. People often see the excesses of ad tech as a failure of capitalism, but in a sense, we're seeing a tech-driven failure mode for free, democratic societies. In a world where your online presence is tied to your identity and always under the watchful eye of a large language model, and where you can't move from A to B without leaving a digital trail, it's not gonna be fun if you become a thorn in the government's side.
- altmanaltman 1mo agohttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airport-melbourne-man-detained-alleged-firearm-gun-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airp... That trust was what led to this incident where someone just walked into the airplane dressed as a maintainence worker and nobody stopped him. Also pilot suicide isn't something new and the aviation world has tried to come up with several regulations to ensure it doesn't happen even though we completely trust pilots on a normalative basis.
- pudgywalsh 1mo agoYou conveniently left out the part where he walked through a hole in the airport fence. Airfields are expected to be secure areas. If you can walk through a hole in a fence there's issues. Remember a guy stole an entire airplane a few years ago (RIP Sky King). Airplanes don't have ignition keys.
- markdown 1mo agoIs that the legend who managed to do a loop-the-loop?
- pudgywalsh 1mo agoYou know it is.
- altmanaltman 1mo agoI shared the link to the entire article so not sure how I left that out. And yes, there was a hole in the airport fence but he got so far because people trust these workers but that can be abused. And in that case (sky king), the guy was actually a maintainence worker who stole the plane. So just saying its okay to be vulnerable just because we trust all actors around the vulnerability, especially when its as easy as a freaking hole to abuse that trust is not a strong argument. RIP Sky King.
- kotaKat 1mo agoThe only subset I've seen with keys are old single-prop Cessnas (makes sense) but every old codger just leaves their keys in the plane anyways. Sooooooome private jets actually bother to slap a Medeco on the external doors, at least, but that's still the only control keeping you grounded.
- Nextgrid 1mo agoWith the low pay and ever-worsening working conditions, I'd be more worried about oversights/negligence than intentional sabotage (which sometimes happens all the way at manufacturing stage - see the Boeing door incident). Unfortunately, that is unlikely to get media coverage because the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, a severe crime in a late-stage capitalistic society.
- gryfft 1mo ago> the solution would be to respect and pay workers more Not to worry, they're furiously working on an alternative which will ensure no worker must ever be respected or paid ever again!
- userbinator 1mo agobecause the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, They're already quite well-paid (and so are pilots). In fact the operating margins of airlines are infamously thin, so unless you want plane tickets to be several times their current price, it won't work.
- WalterBright 1mo ago> the company may not in fact implement any such update to their systems for years to come, given how rarely commercial airplanes are redesigned. Boeing commercial airplanes are constantly updated. As long as the airplane is in service, Boeing retains a team of engineers that update parts as needed. If FAA review is needed, this will of course take longer. BTW, anyone with access to the internals of an airplane could potentially sabotage it. Sadly, all people with access need to undergo a security check.
- ThrowawayTestr 1mo agoSadly?
- lukan 1mo agoIrony/point of view from an attacker.
- WalterBright 1mo agoSadly in that there are evil people.
- United857 1mo ago> less than a minute, that hardware implant can be fitted into a port accessible via a hatch on the exterior of the plane Just as with computers, as the saying goes, if you have physical access to the device then all bets are off. The tricky part is getting that physical access in the first place...
- dosshell 1mo agoIt is not that simple, atleast in the automotive industry _today_. Atleast here in EU. Every component is analyzed from a cyber security perspective. Many components needs tampering protection - while others need not. This includes replacing components with malicious ones. It is not logical at all and a stupid regulation. But it is not as simple as you can do what you want if you have physical access.
- philipallstar 1mo agoWell, the EU, being very much dictated by Germany, who have a large car industry, has a vested interest in making sure that if people want to have a better car they pay for a better one new rather than upgrade with an aftermarket chip.
- i_am_a_peasant 1mo agoI live in Germany. and i wish i lived in an EU that’s dictated by germany, but that is not the EU I live in. The above statement sounded way more edgy than intended lol
- philipallstar 1mo agoYou should try living in Greece or something, and you'll see what the EU (and the Euro) can wreak on a country.
- sfn42 1mo agoA better car for most people is not just a chip upgrade. Anyone with a lick of sense has no need for more horsepower than whatever a standard EV has. It's beyond plenty for normal driving. I drive an Opel Corsa E which is a cheap EV and it accelerates more than fast enough. Upgrading would be about better safety equipment, better range, more space, better seats, better sound system and stuff like that. None of that can be done with a chip. It would be a different car, which is what I plan to get in a few years. Paying for a horsepower upgrade chip is something very few people have any interest in doing. Mostly irresponsible assholes who are a danger to others, maybe a few people who need it to pull trailers or something.
- haunter 1mo agohttps://archive.md/3fpga https://archive.md/3fpga HN should have a rule like what does some reddit subs do. Either outright ban paywalled articles, or if not then either an archived link should be posted alongside, or the whole text of the article should be copy pasted as a comment
- Meetvelde 1mo agoI think a lot of these links are being shared via the browser extension, but yes I agree they should do something about this.
- Symbiote 1mo agoWho do you expect to pay for journalism?
- tgv 1mo agoJeff Bezos, probably. The internet really is the death of quality journalism, and democracy slowly dies with it.
- randomNumber7 1mo agoSlowly?
- inigyou 1mo agoWe're still in the denial phase.
- thaumasiotes 1mo ago> The internet really is the death of quality journalism At every level of quality, there is more journalism than there was before.
- acdha 1mo agoThere used to be journalists in every town or city working for local newspapers back when ad revenue stayed local. Don’t confuse the success of a handful of top journals with the health of the field. > In 1990 we had one daily news(paper) journalist for every 4,490 Americans. Now (or 2019 to be exact), we have one such reporter per 14,250. https://www.reportforamerica.org/2021/06/28/the-journalist-population/ https://www.reportforamerica.org/2021/06/28/the-journalist-p...
- numpad0 1mo ago...so they built an equivalent of OBDII reader for planes, and it worked just the same as ones for cars? Interesting but not as scary as the title may suggest.
- Razengan 1mo ago..I feel like I shouldn't bookmark this post, given the invasive "social media checks" in the so-called Free World :')
- snapsnail 1mo agohttp://archive.today/3fpga http://archive.today/3fpga
- danw1979 1mo agoI started my career proper as a junior network engineer for a regional British airline (British Midland, since subsumed by BA) in 2001, just before 9/11 continuing for 3 years until mid 2004. Throughout that time, I held an airside pass at LHR that allowed me to get pretty much anywhere I liked, apart from the taxiways and runways of course. This was pretty standard for most staff - once you’re airside, there were not many restrictions about getting down under the ramp or anywhere around an aircraft on a stand. Never was this illustrated better than the final homecoming of a BA Concorde in late 2003, when a whole load of staff from different roles across the airport all piled out onto the edge of the apron to wave it home. A junior IT bod in a high-vis touching something on the outside of an aircraft ? Wouldn’t stand out to anyone watching a CCTV feed. Maybe the other ramp staff would notice, but if you timed it right… What I’m trying to say is that physical access to aeroplanes even at a place like LHR was pretty much open to anyone who holds an airside pass.
- jen729w 1mo agoTangential story. I used to work for one of Australia's 'Big 4' banks. One night I was working in one of the 2 'tier 1' DCs. The place was chock-full of ancient kit. Old mainframes. Tape drives. Nothing in a locked cabinet: this was a room from the 1960s, still active in 2007. I remember it being very beige. It occurred to me that the catastrophe I could have caused simply by ripping out as many cables as I could see would have been … if not a mini-recession, certainly the sort of thing that moved markets. Yeah yeah, redundancy and backups. I knew the infrastructure. It wouldn't have worked, not for weeks anyway. To be in said room, I had undergone a cursory police check.
- elias_t 1mo agoIt’s crazy how much trust there was prior 9/11. I’m wondering if it’s the same nowadays if you get to a certain position or if everything is perfectly compartmentalised
- TheOtherHobbes 1mo agoYou'd have to build many more barriers and gates to stop that, which would be awkward for baggage systems, fuelling, and general maintenance. The question is more - how hard is it to get airside without a pass? I once went in through the main arrivals exit doors at Heathrow. I'd forgotten something so I went in, got it, came out again. It was a stupid thing to do, but I wasn't arrested, stopped, or anythinged. This was before 9/11 so I doubt you could do it today. But even so.
- fragmede 1mo ago[dead]
- kotaKat 1mo ago“researchers aren't revealing which port they targeted on the 737, nor are they releasing some details of how their hacking device is able to spoof commands to the plane's computers” Bro. You put “429 interceptor” on the PCB. You’re just fucking on the ARINC 429 bus. Also, this exists as a commercial product (in some ways): https://www.astronics.com/wireless-electronic-flight-bags-webfb https://www.astronics.com/wireless-electronic-flight-bags-we... There's already a dongle on the market hooked in some 737s that gives you WiFi access to the 429 and 717 busses through the same port... EDIT (again): Oh come on, the paper says they went into the Open Maintenance Connector through the E&E bay through the nose gear. C'moooon. Double-triple edit: Also - ARINC 429 is kinda fun. You can do things like take old glass cockpit hardware and work it into your flight simulator by just feeding the cockpit hardware simulated 429 messages over the wire from your flight sim. Here's some 737 instruments being driven from FSX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtTJiU-vArs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtTJiU-vArs
- rramadass 1mo agoFor folks who might be interested to know more; ARINC defines a series of standards for Avionics Systems and Communications - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC ARINC 429 is the most widely used data bus standard for aviation. Electrical and data format characteristics are defined for a two-wire serial bus with one transmitter and up to 20 receivers. The bus is capable of operating at a speed of 100 kbit/s. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC_429 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC_429
- kotaKat 1mo agoPS: HN, I'm really fucking getting tired of being punted to the absolute bottom of every fucking post, even when I post actually decent fucking content for once. Parent comment at +5 points and it's parked all the way at the dead bottom next to the greys. I get locked out for over a month with a half-ass "sorry, your account was flagged as spammy" excuse from dang and then still get punted into the bottom as if I'm too spammy.
- alexthedigger 1mo agoStill too big, I’d like it to fit on the tip of a needle.
- kmoser 1mo ago> In their paper, the researchers outline a range of fixes for the vulnerability they've uncovered, starting with removing the connector in the vulnerable port altogether, or plugging it with epoxy. If you can safely disable the port completely, that implies the port is not needed to begin with. Is that really true? What's the purpose for it?
- padjo 1mo agoProbably diagnostics and debugging.
- iFire 1mo agoWhy coin sized, you can fit a gps tracker in a grain of rice-size pellet, why not a phone card.
- ctippett 1mo agoThe connector shown in the article is apparently the 24-pin connector known as the Open Maintenance Connector (OMC). It's located in the electronics and equipment bay under the nose of the Boeing 737 NG and 737 Max. I say "apparently" as I had Gemini identify the port from the image. The OMC provides direct access to key avionics data networks, including the ARINC 429 buses that link the pilot's Flight Management Computer (FMC) to the Multi-Function Control and Display Unit (MCDU).
- stefansavage 1mo agoIt’s not actually called the OMC. That was a generic name used in the paper in lieu of naming the precise connector.
- stefansavage 1mo agoActual paper for those interested: https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~savage/papers/UsenixSec26-429.pdf https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~savage/papers/UsenixSec26-429.pdf