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I couldn't get over the amount of time lost to commuting. Not saying that OP is living their life wrong or anything, to each their own of course, but I prefer w

I couldn't get over the amount of time lost to commuting. Not saying that OP is living their life wrong or anything, to each their own of course, but I prefer working from home precisely because of how much more _life_ I get to live as a result. The time most people spend commuting, I spend going on hikes with my dog in a forest or working out. For those who lack social activities as a result of working from home I suggest making friends to go out with or join activities that are positively minded towards strangers chatting, like indoor bouldering, which is my workout of choice, and every workout session is always filled with great conversations and fun.

mapontosevenths 1mo ago
I did the math during COVID. I was putting in about 30% more hours when I had to go to an office, and all of them were unproductive. I wasn't being paid any extra to do that - which was especially unfair since I also had additional wear and tear on the car, lunches out, fancier clothes to buy, etc. I may go back to the office someday if I'm forced to, but I won't do it for free. Companies need to compensate in office employees not just for the extra work, but for the expense. Now I use some of those extra hours for the company, and some to work on my side projects. It's glorious. I'm both more productive at work and happier than I've ever been. I also don't get sick when all the cube-dwellers do a few times per year.
- coldpie 1mo ago
  For me, I take the bus to work, so my commute time is spent on pleasant things like reading library books, or working through Chinese lessons on my phone, or just looking out the window, or occasionally chatting with other commuters. I actually enjoy my commute, it's some nice time set aside entirely for myself each day. If I had to be stuck in a car for my commute, I'd definitely resent it.
  - BLKNSLVR 1mo ago
    I feel the same way about my bus commute. Strange tangent, but I also donate plasma once a month and it's perfect for reading a book because there's literally nothing else you can do for the 45 minutes or so that the donation takes. Doing good, enforced reading time, plus free snacks. What's not to love? (other than the vein spiking, for some people).
  - askonomm 1mo ago
    Being in a disease-ridden tuna can that is often filled to the brim so you don't even get a seat is not exactly something that I would call pleasant. My friends who commute to work via public transport get sick multiple times per year, I don't.
    - cactacea 1mo ago
      I was constantly sick when I worked in downtown Seattle and rode the bus. I've been sick exactly once since I started WFH full time in 2019.
    - coldpie 1mo ago
      And 40,000 Americans die due to cars every year. Everything's got tradeoffs, I choose the one that makes me happy.
apercu 1mo ago
Lol - I should have read your post before writing mine.
supriyo-biswas 1mo ago
> Not saying that OP is living their life wrong or anything, to each their own of course, but I prefer working from home precisely because of how much more _life_ I get to live as a result. They have to find a job that allows them to do that, and such jobs are increasingly difficult to find. Where I'm based, even though it might be the smallest startup that could save a good bit by getting rid of their office costs if they gave people WFH, they won't.
xyzelement 1mo ago
I would have agreed with this a few years ago but it's more nuanced than that. Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. For example we have small kids and it's just not going to happen that I am going to tell my wife on a given morning or evening "take care of them while I go on a hike" or whatever. So on days they I decide to go to the office - I get about 2 hours (one hour each way) of reading time (or podcast time, if I were driving in) which realistically would not materialize any other way. I think many dads that are my fellow commuters see the commute as a sort of sacred solo space that's hard to maintain otherwise (eg the unspoken etiquette is if you see someone you know on the train you don't sit next to them so they can have their peace and quiet)
- calvinmorrison 1mo ago
  I am materially not a morning person. I will push until the last second in the morning to get ready. Forcing myself to wake up an hour earlier to drive in, get my coffee and let it percolate did wonders for my morning productivity. WFH lacks that so instead I got a dog which makes me get up at the ass crack but it's still not like a good mental workout of commuting in rush hour on i95 in a 80's sedan
  - Infernal 1mo ago
    Ooo which 80's sedan? I had an E28 20 years ago that I still think about
    - calvinmorrison 1mo ago
      saab 900 turbo
- fipar 1mo ago
  I understand your point completely, as I used to feel the same way in the past. Then I realized it's just that being forced to do a commute for work makes it OK to potentially put extra load on your spouse, or to leave your kids with some other caretaker, but this doesn't have to be this way. It should be fine to take some time if you need it even if there's no job-related reason behind it. So now both my wife and myself take time for ourselves to get that decompression time when needed.
fipar 1mo ago
Yeah, I'm more like you. I also agree with "to each their own" and like that we're so different that someone like the author enjoys going to an office and struggles with phone/device usage when working from home, and others like us prefer remote work. To me, it's not just the commute. I actually prefer working from home. I enjoyed his description of Miyazaki greeting the ghosts though, I think I could work from an office if it was my studio, but I'd want it to be very close to my home. Remote work also makes it possible for me to follow my natural "productivity cycle," which means I often get to work until late in the evening while still being able to have dinner with my family and then just have a short commute to my bedroom when they're (usually) already asleep. I did late-night (and even all-night) work too from offices when I was young, but it's one thing to do that in your very early 20s and with only your parents as family, than as an almost 50 with a spouse and kids. As for enshittification defenses, besides having a family (including cats, used to have a dog too), having musical instruments within reach is great for when I need a quick break. Some breaks can also involve devices and still not be about dopamine, like when I reach out for my personal laptop to open renoise. Lately I've also taken up drawing a bit. I suck at it, but I still enjoy the activity. I agree on the benefits of social activities. My workout of choice is weightlifting and I do have regulars that I talk to (plus for some exercises you really do need someone around if you want to safely get to your breaking point). The one thing I miss from my youth days is social music playing. I hope I'll get back to that someday, but everybody's life is busy in different ways and, unlike getting together for coffee or beer, getting together to play music does require a bigger logistical effort and time budget. While I wait for the opportunity to arise, playing along to records is an OK way to get by.
Semkas 1mo ago
I think the quality of a commute is very different depending on whether it's by car or by train, since you can actually read / write / program / draw on a train. Obviously I'm still pretty glad when I get to work from home and sleep in a little and make some good coffee though.
- apercu 1mo ago
  I lived in the Toronto area for ~20 years. I could commute by car in anywhere form 1-1.5 hours each way, OR, drive 30 minutes to a train station and spend 5-10 minutes looking for parking, wait 10 minutes to board, take an hour to get downtown, then walk for 10-15 minutes, then do that in reverse, plus $18 dollars a day for a train ticket. So 4 hours a day by train or 2-3 hours a day by car. I mostly drove.
- GolfPopper 1mo ago
  I've had four long-term commutes before working from a home office since COVID. 1) Five minute walk. 2)
- ghaff 1mo ago
  I commuted into the city a few days a week for about 18 months quite a while back. I'd normally take the train unless I were doing something in the evening at which point the commuter rail timetable didn't work very well. Yes, it was better than driving but still wasn't that great. I had to catch the train at about 6:30 AM. And it was still a good 3 hours on the train any given day. Wasn't really very relaxing and I never found it an environment conducive to getting real work done.
  - kccqzy 1mo ago
    The point of a train commute isn’t to get more work done (that would be working extra hours for your employer). Instead it’s time for yourself to relax, away from work, family responsibilities, and all that. Find a good book, listen to some new music while not multitasking, daydream a bit, or get your HN fix.
ButlerianJihad 1mo ago
During the course of my sorry career, beginning in college in fact, my minimum commute time was 20 minutes. I had some commutes that were much longer and complex. Driving a motor vehicle was perhaps an opportunity for focus and solitude, but the act of driving itself is too active, too demanding, to be zen or deeply contemplative. The most I could do was rock out to a custom mixtape or the radio, and ignore my troubles. One commute was across a treacherous mountain pass with switchbacks and deadly fog. I once deliberately caused an accident there on the highway. I once came six inches from wrapping myself and my Integra around a pine tree. I don't miss driving to work. Later in life, when I was denied ownership of a vehicle, I commuted by public transit. This could be heaven or this could be hell. If there was a disturbance or complication on the bus, it was a daily trauma and I arrived at my destination as a triggered, frazzled, bundle of nerves. If the voyage was uneventful, I truly had a chance to space out, watch the scenery, and arrive relaxed and calm. Nowadays, I'm more likely to use a taxi or a rideshare. Waymo is the calmest and most efficient transport for solitude and silence. But taxis travel very fast, and being rushed is not conducive to contemplation. So, I do try to mix in some public transit wherever possible, and during those times, I pray it's on the uneventful side.
golly_ned 1mo ago
I think I once read that commute distance happened to be a strong predictor of adult happiness. I don't know if the source was reputable or not.
threatofrain 1mo ago
Minutes spent transporting to work is one of the best single factor predictors of turnover and workplace dissatisfaction.
tiznow 1mo ago
I've been in multiple car accidents this year, none of them my fault. Commuting might actually be the death of me, I can't express to a future employer how much I'm willing to trade just to not have to do it anymore. Doesn't help that I deal with some of the worst traffic in America...
kccqzy 1mo ago
It’s not time lost to commuting. For some people, without the structure of a workday imposed by commuting, they devolve into doing other time-wasting activities. In fact the author said without this commute they would “be on my phone/on Reddit/read HN comments all day/etc.” From this light, a commute doesn’t cause any more time to be lost, but rather it restricts the amount of time lost to be the commute itself, rather than the entire workday. This is something I’m seen very often in people who are dissatisfied with WFH. They lose focus, lose the sense of time, and waste the entire day without the commute.

mapontosevenths 1mo ago

I did the math during COVID. I was putting in about 30% more hours when I had to go to an office, and all of them were unproductive. I wasn't being paid any extra to do that - which was especially unfair since I also had additional wear and tear on the car, lunches out, fancier clothes to buy, etc. I may go back to the office someday if I'm forced to, but I won't do it for free. Companies need to compensate in office employees not just for the extra work, but for the expense. Now I use some of those extra hours for the company, and some to work on my side projects. It's glorious. I'm both more productive at work and happier than I've ever been. I also don't get sick when all the cube-dwellers do a few times per year.

coldpie 1mo ago
For me, I take the bus to work, so my commute time is spent on pleasant things like reading library books, or working through Chinese lessons on my phone, or just looking out the window, or occasionally chatting with other commuters. I actually enjoy my commute, it's some nice time set aside entirely for myself each day. If I had to be stuck in a car for my commute, I'd definitely resent it.
- BLKNSLVR 1mo ago
  I feel the same way about my bus commute. Strange tangent, but I also donate plasma once a month and it's perfect for reading a book because there's literally nothing else you can do for the 45 minutes or so that the donation takes. Doing good, enforced reading time, plus free snacks. What's not to love? (other than the vein spiking, for some people).
- askonomm 1mo ago
  Being in a disease-ridden tuna can that is often filled to the brim so you don't even get a seat is not exactly something that I would call pleasant. My friends who commute to work via public transport get sick multiple times per year, I don't.
  - cactacea 1mo ago
    I was constantly sick when I worked in downtown Seattle and rode the bus. I've been sick exactly once since I started WFH full time in 2019.
  - coldpie 1mo ago
    And 40,000 Americans die due to cars every year. Everything's got tradeoffs, I choose the one that makes me happy.

apercu 1mo ago

Lol - I should have read your post before writing mine.

supriyo-biswas 1mo ago

> Not saying that OP is living their life wrong or anything, to each their own of course, but I prefer working from home precisely because of how much more _life_ I get to live as a result. They have to find a job that allows them to do that, and such jobs are increasingly difficult to find. Where I'm based, even though it might be the smallest startup that could save a good bit by getting rid of their office costs if they gave people WFH, they won't.

xyzelement 1mo ago

I would have agreed with this a few years ago but it's more nuanced than that. Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. For example we have small kids and it's just not going to happen that I am going to tell my wife on a given morning or evening "take care of them while I go on a hike" or whatever. So on days they I decide to go to the office - I get about 2 hours (one hour each way) of reading time (or podcast time, if I were driving in) which realistically would not materialize any other way. I think many dads that are my fellow commuters see the commute as a sort of sacred solo space that's hard to maintain otherwise (eg the unspoken etiquette is if you see someone you know on the train you don't sit next to them so they can have their peace and quiet)

calvinmorrison 1mo ago
I am materially not a morning person. I will push until the last second in the morning to get ready. Forcing myself to wake up an hour earlier to drive in, get my coffee and let it percolate did wonders for my morning productivity. WFH lacks that so instead I got a dog which makes me get up at the ass crack but it's still not like a good mental workout of commuting in rush hour on i95 in a 80's sedan
- Infernal 1mo ago
  Ooo which 80's sedan? I had an E28 20 years ago that I still think about
  - calvinmorrison 1mo ago
    saab 900 turbo
fipar 1mo ago
I understand your point completely, as I used to feel the same way in the past. Then I realized it's just that being forced to do a commute for work makes it OK to potentially put extra load on your spouse, or to leave your kids with some other caretaker, but this doesn't have to be this way. It should be fine to take some time if you need it even if there's no job-related reason behind it. So now both my wife and myself take time for ourselves to get that decompression time when needed.

fipar 1mo ago

Yeah, I'm more like you. I also agree with "to each their own" and like that we're so different that someone like the author enjoys going to an office and struggles with phone/device usage when working from home, and others like us prefer remote work. To me, it's not just the commute. I actually prefer working from home. I enjoyed his description of Miyazaki greeting the ghosts though, I think I could work from an office if it was my studio, but I'd want it to be very close to my home. Remote work also makes it possible for me to follow my natural "productivity cycle," which means I often get to work until late in the evening while still being able to have dinner with my family and then just have a short commute to my bedroom when they're (usually) already asleep. I did late-night (and even all-night) work too from offices when I was young, but it's one thing to do that in your very early 20s and with only your parents as family, than as an almost 50 with a spouse and kids. As for enshittification defenses, besides having a family (including cats, used to have a dog too), having musical instruments within reach is great for when I need a quick break. Some breaks can also involve devices and still not be about dopamine, like when I reach out for my personal laptop to open renoise. Lately I've also taken up drawing a bit. I suck at it, but I still enjoy the activity. I agree on the benefits of social activities. My workout of choice is weightlifting and I do have regulars that I talk to (plus for some exercises you really do need someone around if you want to safely get to your breaking point). The one thing I miss from my youth days is social music playing. I hope I'll get back to that someday, but everybody's life is busy in different ways and, unlike getting together for coffee or beer, getting together to play music does require a bigger logistical effort and time budget. While I wait for the opportunity to arise, playing along to records is an OK way to get by.

Semkas 1mo ago

I think the quality of a commute is very different depending on whether it's by car or by train, since you can actually read / write / program / draw on a train. Obviously I'm still pretty glad when I get to work from home and sleep in a little and make some good coffee though.

apercu 1mo ago
I lived in the Toronto area for ~20 years. I could commute by car in anywhere form 1-1.5 hours each way, OR, drive 30 minutes to a train station and spend 5-10 minutes looking for parking, wait 10 minutes to board, take an hour to get downtown, then walk for 10-15 minutes, then do that in reverse, plus $18 dollars a day for a train ticket. So 4 hours a day by train or 2-3 hours a day by car. I mostly drove.
GolfPopper 1mo ago
I've had four long-term commutes before working from a home office since COVID. 1) Five minute walk. 2)
ghaff 1mo ago
I commuted into the city a few days a week for about 18 months quite a while back. I'd normally take the train unless I were doing something in the evening at which point the commuter rail timetable didn't work very well. Yes, it was better than driving but still wasn't that great. I had to catch the train at about 6:30 AM. And it was still a good 3 hours on the train any given day. Wasn't really very relaxing and I never found it an environment conducive to getting real work done.
- kccqzy 1mo ago
  The point of a train commute isn’t to get more work done (that would be working extra hours for your employer). Instead it’s time for yourself to relax, away from work, family responsibilities, and all that. Find a good book, listen to some new music while not multitasking, daydream a bit, or get your HN fix.

ButlerianJihad 1mo ago

During the course of my sorry career, beginning in college in fact, my minimum commute time was 20 minutes. I had some commutes that were much longer and complex. Driving a motor vehicle was perhaps an opportunity for focus and solitude, but the act of driving itself is too active, too demanding, to be zen or deeply contemplative. The most I could do was rock out to a custom mixtape or the radio, and ignore my troubles. One commute was across a treacherous mountain pass with switchbacks and deadly fog. I once deliberately caused an accident there on the highway. I once came six inches from wrapping myself and my Integra around a pine tree. I don't miss driving to work. Later in life, when I was denied ownership of a vehicle, I commuted by public transit. This could be heaven or this could be hell. If there was a disturbance or complication on the bus, it was a daily trauma and I arrived at my destination as a triggered, frazzled, bundle of nerves. If the voyage was uneventful, I truly had a chance to space out, watch the scenery, and arrive relaxed and calm. Nowadays, I'm more likely to use a taxi or a rideshare. Waymo is the calmest and most efficient transport for solitude and silence. But taxis travel very fast, and being rushed is not conducive to contemplation. So, I do try to mix in some public transit wherever possible, and during those times, I pray it's on the uneventful side.

golly_ned 1mo ago

I think I once read that commute distance happened to be a strong predictor of adult happiness. I don't know if the source was reputable or not.

threatofrain 1mo ago

Minutes spent transporting to work is one of the best single factor predictors of turnover and workplace dissatisfaction.

tiznow 1mo ago

I've been in multiple car accidents this year, none of them my fault. Commuting might actually be the death of me, I can't express to a future employer how much I'm willing to trade just to not have to do it anymore. Doesn't help that I deal with some of the worst traffic in America...

kccqzy 1mo ago

It’s not time lost to commuting. For some people, without the structure of a workday imposed by commuting, they devolve into doing other time-wasting activities. In fact the author said without this commute they would “be on my phone/on Reddit/read HN comments all day/etc.” From this light, a commute doesn’t cause any more time to be lost, but rather it restricts the amount of time lost to be the commute itself, rather than the entire workday. This is something I’m seen very often in people who are dissatisfied with WFH. They lose focus, lose the sense of time, and waste the entire day without the commute.