7 ms·

"It also prices out a lot of other better uses for their labor...." "Projects I work on..."

by DEF14A 2mo ago

estearum 2mo ago
Considering we are in a gigantic housing shortage, it would be great if a house didn't have to compete for talent with a data center.
- Permit 2mo ago
  The housing shortage has nothing to do with a lack of electrical engineers or plumbers. It’s entirely self inflicted and cheaper electricians will not change that. More directly: I doubt there will be a meaningful increase in housing in states that have banned construction of new data centers (NY, Maine) than those where data centers are allowed to be built.
  - estearum 2mo ago
    You don't work in construction do you? Lack of skilled tradesmen is a widespread problem and a major source of project delay (on top of massively higher housing production costs). I assume next comes the zoning-causes-all-shortages and if only we could fix zoning then we'd solve housing – a thesis for which there's zero evidence.
    - AngryData 2mo ago
      That "lack" of labor is the norm because construction is a boom-bust business and nobody wants to pay to retain talent and skills they aren't actively profiting off. And very few want to spend time training new people when they are currently earning 3x their normal rate working a boom cycle. If the AI boom crashes, how many of these people will get laid off and unable to find comparable paying work for years afterward? Even if it picks up again 5 years later, many of those people have moved on to new careers. And the only way to get them back, even temporarily, is pay them way more than their current career to pay for their losses and hardships of quiting their current career path. So ultimately boils down to "pay people more" because you aren't just incentivizing people to work for you specifically during a boom cycle, you are also trying to poach workers out of other industries for a job they know is temporary.
      - estearum 2mo ago
        Yes, the labor supply for skilled tradesmen is very inelastic. Which is one reason it sucks to have so much of it drawn into a probably-speculative boom.
- quickthrowman 2mo ago
  There is almost zero overlap between residential and commercial electricians. There is a shortage of residential electricians because the customers are a nightmare to deal with (both builders and homeowners, homeowners are incredibly entitled and I refuse to deal with them, lol) and the pay sucks.
  - estearum 2mo ago
    What do those residential electricians do then? Become baristas?
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - Marsymars 2mo ago
    > and the pay sucks. This is baffling to me from the homeowner's perspective. I just checked the last invoice I had for electrical work - $300 for something that took <30 minutes and <$20 of supplies. (And like, he did good work and I'd hire him again... but at those rates it's worth me doing anything I can myself even if it takes me 5x longer.)
    - lotsofpulp 2mo ago
      Are you including travel time in the 30 minutes? Time to travel and provide free estimates? Sick/vacation time?
      - danans 2mo ago
        > Sick/vacation time? Don't forget health insurance for when they have to use that sick time to get treatment - so they can get back to work ASAP. Plus, during a bust if they get laid off, we don't have universal health insurance, so they have to factor that in as well.
      - Marsymars 2mo ago
        I mean, obviously not. (Though no travel for free estimates, estimates are just done by phone.) Obviously my electrician isn't making anywhere close to $30040 hours52 weeks = $600k+/year - and I don't begrudge my electrician making a good living. But from my perspective as a homeowner, skilled trades are punishingly expensive, and my response was to a post specifically claiming that the pay sucks.

"It also prices out a lot of other better uses for their labor...." "Projects I work on..."

by DEF14A 2mo ago

"It also prices out a lot of other better uses for their labor...." "Projects I work on..."

Considering we are in a gigantic housing shortage, it would be great if a house didn't have to compete for talent with a data center.

Permit 2mo ago
The housing shortage has nothing to do with a lack of electrical engineers or plumbers. It’s entirely self inflicted and cheaper electricians will not change that. More directly: I doubt there will be a meaningful increase in housing in states that have banned construction of new data centers (NY, Maine) than those where data centers are allowed to be built.
- estearum 2mo ago
  You don't work in construction do you? Lack of skilled tradesmen is a widespread problem and a major source of project delay (on top of massively higher housing production costs). I assume next comes the zoning-causes-all-shortages and if only we could fix zoning then we'd solve housing – a thesis for which there's zero evidence.
  - AngryData 2mo ago
    That "lack" of labor is the norm because construction is a boom-bust business and nobody wants to pay to retain talent and skills they aren't actively profiting off. And very few want to spend time training new people when they are currently earning 3x their normal rate working a boom cycle. If the AI boom crashes, how many of these people will get laid off and unable to find comparable paying work for years afterward? Even if it picks up again 5 years later, many of those people have moved on to new careers. And the only way to get them back, even temporarily, is pay them way more than their current career to pay for their losses and hardships of quiting their current career path. So ultimately boils down to "pay people more" because you aren't just incentivizing people to work for you specifically during a boom cycle, you are also trying to poach workers out of other industries for a job they know is temporary.
    - estearum 2mo ago
      Yes, the labor supply for skilled tradesmen is very inelastic. Which is one reason it sucks to have so much of it drawn into a probably-speculative boom.
quickthrowman 2mo ago
There is almost zero overlap between residential and commercial electricians. There is a shortage of residential electricians because the customers are a nightmare to deal with (both builders and homeowners, homeowners are incredibly entitled and I refuse to deal with them, lol) and the pay sucks.
- estearum 2mo ago
  What do those residential electricians do then? Become baristas?
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- Marsymars 2mo ago
  > and the pay sucks. This is baffling to me from the homeowner's perspective. I just checked the last invoice I had for electrical work - $300 for something that took <30 minutes and <$20 of supplies. (And like, he did good work and I'd hire him again... but at those rates it's worth me doing anything I can myself even if it takes me 5x longer.)
  - lotsofpulp 2mo ago
    Are you including travel time in the 30 minutes? Time to travel and provide free estimates? Sick/vacation time?
    - danans 2mo ago
      > Sick/vacation time? Don't forget health insurance for when they have to use that sick time to get treatment - so they can get back to work ASAP. Plus, during a bust if they get laid off, we don't have universal health insurance, so they have to factor that in as well.
    - Marsymars 2mo ago
      I mean, obviously not. (Though no travel for free estimates, estimates are just done by phone.) Obviously my electrician isn't making anywhere close to $30040 hours52 weeks = $600k+/year - and I don't begrudge my electrician making a good living. But from my perspective as a homeowner, skilled trades are punishingly expensive, and my response was to a post specifically claiming that the pay sucks.