11 ms·

It's so cheap that normal people could band together and re-buy democracy. It's the banding together part that is hard.

by 01284a7e 2mo ago

verisimi 2mo ago
"re-buy democracy"
- vitorfblima 2mo ago
  It says a lot, if you think about it.
triceratops 2mo ago
Normal people can't offer speaking fees, consulting gigs, and other sinecures to politicians and their staffers after they leave the government.
- thewebguyd 2mo ago
  Right. That's what actually buys you the politician. Being able to promise "Pass this regulation for us and we'll make sure you are set up for life, since we know it's politically unfavorable" the ~$2M just gets your foot in the door, that's it.
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    And also they can threaten to fund an opponent's PAC.
    - reactordev 2mo ago
      Or primary you
      - triceratops 2mo ago
        Opponents run in primaries too, not just general elections.
    - vjvjvjvjghv 2mo ago
      That's the real evil. Once a super PAC has enough money, they don't even have to spend it. The threat alone is enough to get most Congress people back in line.
- salemh 2mo ago
  [dead]
nancyminusone 2mo ago
I already pay for my government in taxes (which ironically these big cos don't pay). Besides, if I were to gather up 4 million to lobby, the opposition would simply spend 8 million instead which they could come up with just as easily. They don't have to outrun the bear, the just have to outrun you.
- simonw 2mo ago
  Yeah, I would like my taxes to go to paying for expertise to help make good governance decisions, personally.
  - TeMPOraL 2mo ago
    Oh so you're aligned with AI lobbying then? j/k, but then again, it's not like we have other means to "help make good governance decisions" that we haven't already tried before. Maybe except the failed cybernetics experiments that came a little before their time and in the wrong political regime, but then those are effectively replicated by any large multinational internally to some extent.
renegade-otter 2mo ago
I think of that Netflix series on FIFA and its rampant corruption. The bribes in question are laughable, considering that FIFA is a multi-billion dollar operation, and it's always some round number like $1M. At least add some cents to it so it's not glaringly obvious in the bank accounts.
- TeMPOraL 2mo ago
  Are the bribes round, or is it just usual bullshit journalism practice of fudging the numbers and rounding them in the process (usually made apparent when there are multiple reports for the same number, each using different units of currency or measure).
  - reactordev 2mo ago
    They are usually round so that those who worked on it can get paid.
  - mb5 2mo ago
    Plenty of nice round numbers in this indictment: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/file/450211/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/file/450211/dl?inline Search for “Wire transfer of” to jump to them. Plus a couple of $1,666,667 which stand out in contrast to all the zeroes.
jonas21 2mo ago
Many of the groups that spend the most on lobbying are composed of "normal" people who have banded together for some common interest. For example: - The AARP ($21M annual spend) has 38M members - The National Association of Realtors ($54M annual spend) has 1.5M members - The American Medical Association ($24M annual spend) has 300K members Of course that doesn't mean that their interests necessarily align with your interests.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 2mo ago
  Also if they want my money then their interests align.
  - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." - Adam Smith
    - ben_w 2mo ago
      A curious choice of quote on a tech forum attached to a VC firm :P
      - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
        You know what would be cool? A national startup accelerator!
- programmertote 2mo ago
  It really irks me for some reason that American Medical Association (one of the top spenders in lobbying) is doing the lobbying. I did a quick Gemini/Google search and these are the topics they lobby for. ``` Core Legislative PrioritiesMedicare Reform: Fighting to fix stagnant physician payment formulas and account for inflation. Prior Authorization: Pushing to reduce administrative roadblocks and delays enforced by insurance companies. Scope of Practice: Opposing laws that expand independent clinical roles for non-physicians like nurse practitioners and pharmacists. Burnout Reduction: Supporting federal and organizational relief to help doctors manage workplace stress and administrative tasks. -- Public Health and Science Public Health Crises: Supporting science-based policies on vaccinations, gun violence prevention, and chronic disease reduction. Digital Health: Guiding regulations for artificial intelligence and telehealth integration in medical practices ``` Most of these are about keeping the gate (i.e., doctor's compensation high). The US doctors are the highest paid in the world (among developed countries like UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, etc.) by a long shot. Kind of mad if you think about it. Disclaimer: My spouse is a specialist doctor. You can say I have selfish interest in keeping doctor's salaries high in the US. But I can't help highlighting that doctor's guilds (like AMA) are part of the reasons why the healthcare expenses are so high in the US.
voicedYoda 2mo ago
That's how Groupon originally started.
jMyles 2mo ago
It seems to me that there's really nothing at that store that "normal people" want to buy. Everything that we want to do can be done through ordinary collaboration with no need for the state. The special services which the state provides (violence and threats of violence, imperialism, inhibition of movement of people and goods across imaginary lines, etc) are the kinds of things that are really only interesting to the kinds of people who are already spending their money on lobbying.
Aurornis 2mo ago
This is what a PAC is. Political Action Committee. They primarily only get headlines for outrage topics when people don’t like what they’re pushing toward. Many of the top PACs are from groups like realtors or sheet metal workers lobbying for their interests. Most people skip PACs and donate straight to political candidates instead. Individual donations to candidates outweigh anything the AI companies are spending by a huge number.
- CSSer 2mo ago
  Yes, and it’s trivial to form one! If you look up the documentation necessary you may not believe your eyes.
  - carlosjobim 2mo ago
    Why should it be hard? It's something which should be completely unregulated in a free country.
    - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
      Letting mega-billionaires spend mega-millions to buy the conversation around elections isn't my definition of freedom.
      - carlosjobim 2mo ago
        Which people do you allow to work together for their political goals then, oh grand hacker? Do you understand the basics of a free society, which include freedom of association? You don't have much of a democracy left if you remove that.
        smallmancontrov 2mo ago
        America wasn't a democracy before the 2010 Citizens United ruling allowed corporations and wealthy donors to spend unlimited money on elections? That's news to me. I don't feel more free at all on account of that ruling. Maybe if you said "freedom" one or two more times, that would do the trick.
runarberg 2mo ago
It would not surprise me that the cost of lobbying rises exponentially as the policy moves left on the political spectrum. That pro-business, pro-austerity, neo-liberal policy is orders of magnitude cheaper to lobby for, then pro-worker, pro-democracy, pro-consumer policy.
- philipallstar 2mo ago
  Pro business is pro consumer.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    Pro business is pro business. That's reality, not a value judgement.
    - philipallstar 2mo ago
      Sorry, I've no idea what either of those sentences are doing.
      - triceratops 2mo ago
        I thought it was obvious but I'll spell it out. Businesses do what's good for the business. Often, happily, that turns out to be to the benefit of consumers. But that is never the objective. Businesses take anti-consumer decisions every day with no qualms when it serves them. "Pro business is pro business" was my reply to your naive "Pro business is pro consumer" declaration of faith. My second sentence clarified that my first sentence carried no judgement of businesses. That's just their nature, it's what they do.
jmyeet 2mo ago
The estimated spending on the 2026 election season is $11.6 billion [1]. One primary has had an estimated $60 million spent on it (ie the Michigan Democratic primary). Thomas Massie's primary had an estimated $35 million spent on it. A GOP Super PAC has earmarked $342 million for 8 Senate races [2]. Over $5 billion was spent on lobbying in 2025 [3]. To truly move policy you need to get pliable representatives first and that's not just money. There is a pipeline here. First, you get the right connections. That could be coming from a wealth family, be the nephew or grandson of some politician, do your time as a staffer or whatever. Going up through the ranks acts as a giant filter to make sure you will maintain the status quo. So you have to find candidates to run for these offices who have been weeded out by the existing processes. And if you don't have enough of them, the DNC or RNC will spend selectively against you in the primary and general election. And an increasing number of races have over $100 million spent on them. Buying back democracy would be very, very expensive. And then after all that there's the income and jobs pipeline. Your children get six-figure jobs with think tanks and interested companies. You leave office and get placed on boards of large companies. You can't compete with that. [1]: https://finance.yahoo.com/media-advertising/articles/2026-election-ad-spending-set-123200240.html https://finance.yahoo.com/media-advertising/articles/2026-el... [2]: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5818507-gop-super-pac-announces-342m-investment-in-midterm-senate-races/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5818507-gop-super-pac-... [3]: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying
alkr-g234 2mo ago
And you cannot offer the Kushner family OpenAI shares. The 4 million is just the surface.

It's so cheap that normal people could band together and re-buy democracy. It's the banding together part that is hard.

verisimi 2mo ago

"re-buy democracy"

vitorfblima 2mo ago
It says a lot, if you think about it.

triceratops 2mo ago

Normal people can't offer speaking fees, consulting gigs, and other sinecures to politicians and their staffers after they leave the government.

thewebguyd 2mo ago
Right. That's what actually buys you the politician. Being able to promise "Pass this regulation for us and we'll make sure you are set up for life, since we know it's politically unfavorable" the ~$2M just gets your foot in the door, that's it.
- triceratops 2mo ago
  And also they can threaten to fund an opponent's PAC.
  - reactordev 2mo ago
    Or primary you
    - triceratops 2mo ago
      Opponents run in primaries too, not just general elections.
  - vjvjvjvjghv 2mo ago
    That's the real evil. Once a super PAC has enough money, they don't even have to spend it. The threat alone is enough to get most Congress people back in line.
salemh 2mo ago
[dead]

nancyminusone 2mo ago

I already pay for my government in taxes (which ironically these big cos don't pay). Besides, if I were to gather up 4 million to lobby, the opposition would simply spend 8 million instead which they could come up with just as easily. They don't have to outrun the bear, the just have to outrun you.

simonw 2mo ago
Yeah, I would like my taxes to go to paying for expertise to help make good governance decisions, personally.
- TeMPOraL 2mo ago
  Oh so you're aligned with AI lobbying then? j/k, but then again, it's not like we have other means to "help make good governance decisions" that we haven't already tried before. Maybe except the failed cybernetics experiments that came a little before their time and in the wrong political regime, but then those are effectively replicated by any large multinational internally to some extent.

renegade-otter 2mo ago

I think of that Netflix series on FIFA and its rampant corruption. The bribes in question are laughable, considering that FIFA is a multi-billion dollar operation, and it's always some round number like $1M. At least add some cents to it so it's not glaringly obvious in the bank accounts.

TeMPOraL 2mo ago
Are the bribes round, or is it just usual bullshit journalism practice of fudging the numbers and rounding them in the process (usually made apparent when there are multiple reports for the same number, each using different units of currency or measure).
- reactordev 2mo ago
  They are usually round so that those who worked on it can get paid.
- mb5 2mo ago
  Plenty of nice round numbers in this indictment: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/file/450211/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/file/450211/dl?inline Search for “Wire transfer of” to jump to them. Plus a couple of $1,666,667 which stand out in contrast to all the zeroes.

jonas21 2mo ago

Many of the groups that spend the most on lobbying are composed of "normal" people who have banded together for some common interest. For example: - The AARP ($21M annual spend) has 38M members - The National Association of Realtors ($54M annual spend) has 1.5M members - The American Medical Association ($24M annual spend) has 300K members Of course that doesn't mean that their interests necessarily align with your interests.

0xdeadbeefbabe 2mo ago
Also if they want my money then their interests align.
- smallmancontrov 2mo ago
  "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." - Adam Smith
  - ben_w 2mo ago
    A curious choice of quote on a tech forum attached to a VC firm :P
    - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
      You know what would be cool? A national startup accelerator!
programmertote 2mo ago
It really irks me for some reason that American Medical Association (one of the top spenders in lobbying) is doing the lobbying. I did a quick Gemini/Google search and these are the topics they lobby for. ``` Core Legislative PrioritiesMedicare Reform: Fighting to fix stagnant physician payment formulas and account for inflation. Prior Authorization: Pushing to reduce administrative roadblocks and delays enforced by insurance companies. Scope of Practice: Opposing laws that expand independent clinical roles for non-physicians like nurse practitioners and pharmacists. Burnout Reduction: Supporting federal and organizational relief to help doctors manage workplace stress and administrative tasks. -- Public Health and Science Public Health Crises: Supporting science-based policies on vaccinations, gun violence prevention, and chronic disease reduction. Digital Health: Guiding regulations for artificial intelligence and telehealth integration in medical practices ``` Most of these are about keeping the gate (i.e., doctor's compensation high). The US doctors are the highest paid in the world (among developed countries like UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, etc.) by a long shot. Kind of mad if you think about it. Disclaimer: My spouse is a specialist doctor. You can say I have selfish interest in keeping doctor's salaries high in the US. But I can't help highlighting that doctor's guilds (like AMA) are part of the reasons why the healthcare expenses are so high in the US.

voicedYoda 2mo ago

That's how Groupon originally started.

jMyles 2mo ago

It seems to me that there's really nothing at that store that "normal people" want to buy. Everything that we want to do can be done through ordinary collaboration with no need for the state. The special services which the state provides (violence and threats of violence, imperialism, inhibition of movement of people and goods across imaginary lines, etc) are the kinds of things that are really only interesting to the kinds of people who are already spending their money on lobbying.

Aurornis 2mo ago

This is what a PAC is. Political Action Committee. They primarily only get headlines for outrage topics when people don’t like what they’re pushing toward. Many of the top PACs are from groups like realtors or sheet metal workers lobbying for their interests. Most people skip PACs and donate straight to political candidates instead. Individual donations to candidates outweigh anything the AI companies are spending by a huge number.

CSSer 2mo ago
Yes, and it’s trivial to form one! If you look up the documentation necessary you may not believe your eyes.
- carlosjobim 2mo ago
  Why should it be hard? It's something which should be completely unregulated in a free country.
  - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
    Letting mega-billionaires spend mega-millions to buy the conversation around elections isn't my definition of freedom.
    - carlosjobim 2mo ago
      Which people do you allow to work together for their political goals then, oh grand hacker? Do you understand the basics of a free society, which include freedom of association? You don't have much of a democracy left if you remove that.
      - smallmancontrov 2mo ago
        America wasn't a democracy before the 2010 Citizens United ruling allowed corporations and wealthy donors to spend unlimited money on elections? That's news to me. I don't feel more free at all on account of that ruling. Maybe if you said "freedom" one or two more times, that would do the trick.

runarberg 2mo ago

It would not surprise me that the cost of lobbying rises exponentially as the policy moves left on the political spectrum. That pro-business, pro-austerity, neo-liberal policy is orders of magnitude cheaper to lobby for, then pro-worker, pro-democracy, pro-consumer policy.

philipallstar 2mo ago
Pro business is pro consumer.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- triceratops 2mo ago
  Pro business is pro business. That's reality, not a value judgement.
  - philipallstar 2mo ago
    Sorry, I've no idea what either of those sentences are doing.
    - triceratops 2mo ago
      I thought it was obvious but I'll spell it out. Businesses do what's good for the business. Often, happily, that turns out to be to the benefit of consumers. But that is never the objective. Businesses take anti-consumer decisions every day with no qualms when it serves them. "Pro business is pro business" was my reply to your naive "Pro business is pro consumer" declaration of faith. My second sentence clarified that my first sentence carried no judgement of businesses. That's just their nature, it's what they do.

jmyeet 2mo ago

The estimated spending on the 2026 election season is $11.6 billion [1]. One primary has had an estimated $60 million spent on it (ie the Michigan Democratic primary). Thomas Massie's primary had an estimated $35 million spent on it. A GOP Super PAC has earmarked $342 million for 8 Senate races [2]. Over $5 billion was spent on lobbying in 2025 [3]. To truly move policy you need to get pliable representatives first and that's not just money. There is a pipeline here. First, you get the right connections. That could be coming from a wealth family, be the nephew or grandson of some politician, do your time as a staffer or whatever. Going up through the ranks acts as a giant filter to make sure you will maintain the status quo. So you have to find candidates to run for these offices who have been weeded out by the existing processes. And if you don't have enough of them, the DNC or RNC will spend selectively against you in the primary and general election. And an increasing number of races have over $100 million spent on them. Buying back democracy would be very, very expensive. And then after all that there's the income and jobs pipeline. Your children get six-figure jobs with think tanks and interested companies. You leave office and get placed on boards of large companies. You can't compete with that. [1]: https://finance.yahoo.com/media-advertising/articles/2026-election-ad-spending-set-123200240.html https://finance.yahoo.com/media-advertising/articles/2026-el... [2]: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5818507-gop-super-pac-announces-342m-investment-in-midterm-senate-races/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5818507-gop-super-pac-... [3]: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying

alkr-g234 2mo ago

And you cannot offer the Kushner family OpenAI shares. The 4 million is just the surface.