11 ms·

why would any software want to have Kubernetes moment? can't count how devop I know that is confused by it

by netdur 2mo ago

xyzsparetimexyz 2mo ago
I still don't know what it is tbh. Something for docker?
- genghisjahn 2mo ago
  If you can get it implemented for anything you can’t be fired.
- Pxtl 2mo ago
  It's for running a massive number of docker containers and automatically managing them and scaling them up and down on demand. It is also so famously brutally complex that basically you need a dedicated Kube expert to handle it.
  - honkycat 2mo ago
    to be fair, at any large scale you need infra people.
    - RussianCow 2mo ago
      The problem is that companies tend to exaggerate their own scale and think they need k8s and dedicated infra people when they could get by with a handful of beefy VMs or dedicated servers.
      - honkycat 2mo ago
        Or you could use hosted k8s and be future proof. I would take a kube cluster over a bunch of VMs I have to hand wire: wire releasing to, managing processes, restarting crashed processes, log aggregation, load balancing, networking, secret injection, cert management, DNS management, monitoring, etc... Any day of the week. You just don't know what you're talking about, sorry. Kube is really easy now.
- spicyusername 2mo ago
  You... don't know what Kubernetes is... pretty impressive, honestly. Its 2026 and its the de facto method of deploying software basically everywhere. You gotta really work for it to not know what its for by now.
  - chrisandchris 2mo ago
    > Its 2026 and its the de facto method of deploying software basically everywhere. That is some really impressive bubble you are living within. Basically everywhere - nowhere near that, no. [edit]: Maybe containers, but software in general is so much more broad than containers.
  - recursive 2mo ago
    I don't do much deployment but I'm in the same boat. Something something docker automation?
  - YetAnotherNick 2mo ago
    2026 is the year for vercel and Render.
    - RussianCow 2mo ago
      I haven't used them but aren't they basically modernized Heroku? What's different?
      - throw-the-towel 2mo ago
        Heroku is dying, these are not.
      - mindwok 2mo ago
        Pretty close, they're very close to Heroku in spirit except the new wave of hosted backends (Vercel, and to a lesser extent Supabase and Cloudflare Workers) are much more tightly integrated with the app layer. You can almost think of them as libraries that run in the cloud which you can just use inside your app.
- chias 2mo ago
  I was in this state a few weeks ago. I spent a bit of time familiarizing myself then wrote up my learnings as a series of exercises. If you think of docker as "kinda like vms except not really" and k8s as "kinda like deploying and composing docker containers but not really", this may be for you: https://ojensen.net/infra/understanding-k8s-1 https://ojensen.net/infra/understanding-k8s-1 It's actually really neat, i wish i had bothered to learn it years ago.
  - munchler 2mo ago
    I appreciate the effort and I'm in your target audience, but that document didn't help me. It seems to dive into the details of installing and running k8s without saying much about the purpose. From my very ignorant standpoint, K8s seems to be about running a "cluster", but I don't know why I would want to do that.
    - what-is-water 2mo ago
      Kubernetes orchestrates your container workloads over a cluster, which consists of virtual/bare metal machines(nodes). This means you can tell the kubernetes API "I want to run a container workload" and it will be started on one of the nodes that form the cluster, unlike e.g. Docker, where a docker daemon belongs to a specific node. If you remove the node your workload is running on from the cluster the workload will be rescheduled on a different one, or if you have a new image version it will start the new container, wait for it to become healthy and ready, and then route requests to it. And if you want to send requests to your workload kubernetes allows you to define standardized abstractions to easily route them to your workload, irrespective of the node it is running on. It allows you to stop caring about the individual machines, and just treat them as combined compute, which starts mattering if you leave a single machine setup and need to start thinking about scaling in and out and gluing the individual parts together. Then you have known abstractions to do it. Of course you can do everything kubernetes does using a bespoke solution, and the concepts aren't new, but having a widely supported technology has a lot of advantages and creating something with even half the feature has a high chance of just being worse.
- yard2010 2mo ago
  I was in the same boat as you until I needed to learn how to use it in my $dayjob. It was like discovering a new continent. I couldn't care less about it before, but the moment I realized it's a kind of cloud OS I was astounded by how this thing is genius. It's the kind of thing that gives you dopamine rushes when you use it. Something about how there is a solution to every problem you didn't know even mattered turns it into a magical perfect software. I just love it. There is something special about complex systems that just-work(tm)
  - m4rtink 2mo ago
    So Kubernetes is LSD? ;)
  - jdub 2mo ago
    This is the initial endorphin rush you get when wielding a complex system. The feeling changes when the complexity explodes in your face.
    - mystifyingpoi 2mo ago
      Well said. The rush is when one understands the loosely coupled control loops and how they work together... until something fails in the middle with no error.
  - johnvanommen 2mo ago
    > the moment I realized it's a kind of cloud OS The foundation of this is thirty years old: Mark Andreesen founded a company to do what Amazon did: Loudcloud. This was cloud computing, BEFORE AWS was public. Loudcloud was founded in the nineties; AWS opened its APIs in 2006. Loudcloud failed and became Opsware. Opsware was server automation. Its competitor was Bladelogic. Luke Kanies, from BladeLogic, founded Puppet. Puppet was open source, and steamrollered over nearly every installation of BladeLogic and Opsware in existence, because you can’t beat free. Folks from BladeLogic migrated to jobs at DCOS. DCOS was steamrollered by Kubernetes, the same way Puppet steamrollered BladeLogic. The author of the piece predicts that open weight models will steamroller everything next. I fear he’s right. I worked for Opsware and BladeLogic. I watched it happen in real time. Financially, Andreesen’s wealth stems from Opsware. He is known for Mosaic, but Opsware put him on the map, financially. HP bought them. If one wants to follow in Andreesen’s footsteps, study how he did it at Opsware. Conveniently, there is a book. “The Hard Thing about Hard Things.”
- marcosdumay 2mo ago
  Kubernetes is for docker what your init system is for daemons.
honkycat 2mo ago
Recently my company bought another company, and we kept zero of the original engineers, we just had to run the ghost ship. We walked in, and it was fine. Because it was all kubernetes and laid out like every other app for the most part. The kube hate is just sad at this point. You need to know like 15 concepts that are all applied in the same way. It mostly just works.
- itomato 2mo ago
  Ghost ship status is not something most orgs aspire to. The value built on that stability was probably worth acquiring, and it’s infra will decay.
- Syntaf 2mo ago
  It’s the pineapple on pizza of ops, people just like to fit in sometimes. I’ve been running my own personal k8s cluster on digital ocean for the last 5+ years now and it’s dead simple. Takes me 30 minutes to create a new namespace a deploy an app, love the bonus of having complete flexibility on my stack too — PVC + SQLite ftw
- singingtoday 2mo ago
  I ported my company over to k8s to solve a concurrency and scaling issues. What 15 concepts? You're making me worry that I missed something. It was straight forward: pods, nodes, hw type, lifecycle, deployment. They run almost the same docker as the old ec2s used. What did I miss? Is there something important I need to read?
  - honkycat 2mo ago
    Lol no you got em I would say: - deployments - pods -services - ingress - namespaces - cert-manager - external DNS - external secrets - configmaps - hpa - docker - volumes/pvc That's the basics
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

why would any software want to have Kubernetes moment? can't count how devop I know that is confused by it

by netdur 2mo ago

why would any software want to have Kubernetes moment? can't count how devop I know that is confused by it

xyzsparetimexyz 2mo ago

I still don't know what it is tbh. Something for docker?

genghisjahn 2mo ago
If you can get it implemented for anything you can’t be fired.
Pxtl 2mo ago
It's for running a massive number of docker containers and automatically managing them and scaling them up and down on demand. It is also so famously brutally complex that basically you need a dedicated Kube expert to handle it.
- honkycat 2mo ago
  to be fair, at any large scale you need infra people.
  - RussianCow 2mo ago
    The problem is that companies tend to exaggerate their own scale and think they need k8s and dedicated infra people when they could get by with a handful of beefy VMs or dedicated servers.
    - honkycat 2mo ago
      Or you could use hosted k8s and be future proof. I would take a kube cluster over a bunch of VMs I have to hand wire: wire releasing to, managing processes, restarting crashed processes, log aggregation, load balancing, networking, secret injection, cert management, DNS management, monitoring, etc... Any day of the week. You just don't know what you're talking about, sorry. Kube is really easy now.
spicyusername 2mo ago
You... don't know what Kubernetes is... pretty impressive, honestly. Its 2026 and its the de facto method of deploying software basically everywhere. You gotta really work for it to not know what its for by now.
- chrisandchris 2mo ago
  > Its 2026 and its the de facto method of deploying software basically everywhere. That is some really impressive bubble you are living within. Basically everywhere - nowhere near that, no. [edit]: Maybe containers, but software in general is so much more broad than containers.
- recursive 2mo ago
  I don't do much deployment but I'm in the same boat. Something something docker automation?
- YetAnotherNick 2mo ago
  2026 is the year for vercel and Render.
  - RussianCow 2mo ago
    I haven't used them but aren't they basically modernized Heroku? What's different?
    - throw-the-towel 2mo ago
      Heroku is dying, these are not.
    - mindwok 2mo ago
      Pretty close, they're very close to Heroku in spirit except the new wave of hosted backends (Vercel, and to a lesser extent Supabase and Cloudflare Workers) are much more tightly integrated with the app layer. You can almost think of them as libraries that run in the cloud which you can just use inside your app.
chias 2mo ago
I was in this state a few weeks ago. I spent a bit of time familiarizing myself then wrote up my learnings as a series of exercises. If you think of docker as "kinda like vms except not really" and k8s as "kinda like deploying and composing docker containers but not really", this may be for you: https://ojensen.net/infra/understanding-k8s-1 https://ojensen.net/infra/understanding-k8s-1 It's actually really neat, i wish i had bothered to learn it years ago.
- munchler 2mo ago
  I appreciate the effort and I'm in your target audience, but that document didn't help me. It seems to dive into the details of installing and running k8s without saying much about the purpose. From my very ignorant standpoint, K8s seems to be about running a "cluster", but I don't know why I would want to do that.
  - what-is-water 2mo ago
    Kubernetes orchestrates your container workloads over a cluster, which consists of virtual/bare metal machines(nodes). This means you can tell the kubernetes API "I want to run a container workload" and it will be started on one of the nodes that form the cluster, unlike e.g. Docker, where a docker daemon belongs to a specific node. If you remove the node your workload is running on from the cluster the workload will be rescheduled on a different one, or if you have a new image version it will start the new container, wait for it to become healthy and ready, and then route requests to it. And if you want to send requests to your workload kubernetes allows you to define standardized abstractions to easily route them to your workload, irrespective of the node it is running on. It allows you to stop caring about the individual machines, and just treat them as combined compute, which starts mattering if you leave a single machine setup and need to start thinking about scaling in and out and gluing the individual parts together. Then you have known abstractions to do it. Of course you can do everything kubernetes does using a bespoke solution, and the concepts aren't new, but having a widely supported technology has a lot of advantages and creating something with even half the feature has a high chance of just being worse.
yard2010 2mo ago
I was in the same boat as you until I needed to learn how to use it in my $dayjob. It was like discovering a new continent. I couldn't care less about it before, but the moment I realized it's a kind of cloud OS I was astounded by how this thing is genius. It's the kind of thing that gives you dopamine rushes when you use it. Something about how there is a solution to every problem you didn't know even mattered turns it into a magical perfect software. I just love it. There is something special about complex systems that just-work(tm)
- m4rtink 2mo ago
  So Kubernetes is LSD? ;)
- jdub 2mo ago
  This is the initial endorphin rush you get when wielding a complex system. The feeling changes when the complexity explodes in your face.
  - mystifyingpoi 2mo ago
    Well said. The rush is when one understands the loosely coupled control loops and how they work together... until something fails in the middle with no error.
- johnvanommen 2mo ago
  > the moment I realized it's a kind of cloud OS The foundation of this is thirty years old: Mark Andreesen founded a company to do what Amazon did: Loudcloud. This was cloud computing, BEFORE AWS was public. Loudcloud was founded in the nineties; AWS opened its APIs in 2006. Loudcloud failed and became Opsware. Opsware was server automation. Its competitor was Bladelogic. Luke Kanies, from BladeLogic, founded Puppet. Puppet was open source, and steamrollered over nearly every installation of BladeLogic and Opsware in existence, because you can’t beat free. Folks from BladeLogic migrated to jobs at DCOS. DCOS was steamrollered by Kubernetes, the same way Puppet steamrollered BladeLogic. The author of the piece predicts that open weight models will steamroller everything next. I fear he’s right. I worked for Opsware and BladeLogic. I watched it happen in real time. Financially, Andreesen’s wealth stems from Opsware. He is known for Mosaic, but Opsware put him on the map, financially. HP bought them. If one wants to follow in Andreesen’s footsteps, study how he did it at Opsware. Conveniently, there is a book. “The Hard Thing about Hard Things.”
marcosdumay 2mo ago
Kubernetes is for docker what your init system is for daemons.

honkycat 2mo ago

Recently my company bought another company, and we kept zero of the original engineers, we just had to run the ghost ship. We walked in, and it was fine. Because it was all kubernetes and laid out like every other app for the most part. The kube hate is just sad at this point. You need to know like 15 concepts that are all applied in the same way. It mostly just works.

itomato 2mo ago
Ghost ship status is not something most orgs aspire to. The value built on that stability was probably worth acquiring, and it’s infra will decay.
Syntaf 2mo ago
It’s the pineapple on pizza of ops, people just like to fit in sometimes. I’ve been running my own personal k8s cluster on digital ocean for the last 5+ years now and it’s dead simple. Takes me 30 minutes to create a new namespace a deploy an app, love the bonus of having complete flexibility on my stack too — PVC + SQLite ftw
singingtoday 2mo ago
I ported my company over to k8s to solve a concurrency and scaling issues. What 15 concepts? You're making me worry that I missed something. It was straight forward: pods, nodes, hw type, lifecycle, deployment. They run almost the same docker as the old ec2s used. What did I miss? Is there something important I need to read?
- honkycat 2mo ago
  Lol no you got em I would say: - deployments - pods -services - ingress - namespaces - cert-manager - external DNS - external secrets - configmaps - hpa - docker - volumes/pvc That's the basics

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]