9 ms·

Not going to lie, I wish they also added a square footage as a legal requirement too. It is entirely baffling to me as to why, but NYC is the only major city i

by filoleg 2mo ago

Not going to lie, I wish they also added a square footage as a legal requirement too. It is entirely baffling to me as to why, but NYC is the only major city in the US I've ever lived in where it is genuinely a problem. In all other cities, I had no issues with that, pretty much every single posting online had square footage. Meanwhile, on StreetEasy (and other platforms listing NYC rental units), looking for apartments is a major pain, because majority have zero square footage info. And then it turns into a pure guessing game that becomes super annoying, because an apartment I might be interested in is listed only as "1 bedroom", but just looking at the pics it is impossible to gauge whether it is 400sqft or 900sqft. Knowing that info would have made it much easier for renters, and I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information.

hbarka 2mo ago
> and I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information. The reason is simple. Omission is deception.
- LgWoodenBadger 2mo ago
  If it had a “good” square footage, it would be touted front and center. Because it’s not, you know it doesn’t. I see this all the time with motorcycle PPE. If something was CE A, AA, or AAA rated, it’d be at the top of the description/specs. When it’s not, I know it’s not so I just move on.
  - drivingmenuts 2mo ago
    I wish that e-bike ads had the classification. The bike classes are well-defined AFAIK - it's the class legality that's regional, if any. Right now, they're actively helping riders skirt/evade the laws.
    - sidewndr46 2mo ago
      I'm pretty sure if they stopped skirting the laws, it'd eliminate a decent cohort of their customer base. Watching someone come through a pedestrian area at 45 mph on a "bicycle" that clearly is an electric motorcycle is pretty interesting.
      - moron4hire 2mo ago
        Holy crap! How do they stop at that speed with those thin bicycle tires?
        pasc1878 2mo ago
        What thin bicycle tires - they are much thicker than normal. However yes they are a problem.
        LoganDark 2mo ago
        My e-scooter reaches 45 mph (advertised as 53). Normally, you would stop using the brakes or regen.
        pandaman 2mo ago
        Very slowly. Stopping is not as a big of an issue as cornering though - not only they don't have adequate traction for the speed and mass but they also don't use the front brake. Which is great as the trails which are fun to ride because of all the bends are also e-bike free other than old people riding their pedal-assist bikes at 15 mph.
  - preg_match 2mo ago
    Where it gets tricky is when the good people and bad people start working together because they both sell bad products. What I mean is: purposefully not advertising your good traits front and center, so that your worse product then "shine" more. And then everyone catches on and all your signals are gone. It happens sometimes.
- doginasuit 2mo ago
  No value is essentially "smaller than you would find acceptable."
pclmulqdq 2mo ago
There is square footage on many NYC listings, but it’s wrong. They often have the square footage of the total area occupied by the apartment, including all the interior walls and columns that can take 20% of the area away.
- luckman212 2mo ago
  Don't forget about those common areas too! I've seen many cases where hallways, elevators, and stairwells were included in the square footage numbers.
  - JoshTriplett 2mo ago
    The normal definition of square footage I've seen typically includes hallways and stairs. (Though often not garages.) Personally, I wish we would normalize including exact floor plans with measurements.
    - hirsin 2mo ago
      They mean the apartment building hallways and elevators. As in, if you summed the square footage of all the apartments on a floor, you'd get a number greater than the actual dimensions of the floor, because the common areas are counted multiple times.
      - hirako2000 2mo ago
        Could include the size of the pavements fronting the building and the basement with those trash bin also are shared space.
      - close04 2mo ago
        That shouldn’t be the case. In some cases it would also be ridiculous, when the common areas are larger than the apartments themselves (corridors, elevators, technical rooms, etc.). They do include the proportional square footage corresponding to each apartment. But this is still very misleading because some buildings have a lot of common areas that can double the advertised size of the very small apartments.
KennyBlanken 2mo ago
> I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information. Because it's to an extreme degree a landlord's market and thus none of them have any incentive to do more than the bare minimum? Even if it was listed everyone would "stretch" things by including closets and the like. The only way it would work is if the city did the measurements and maintained a database...but then you'd have people bribing the inspectors. they already do it over fire code. Renting an apartment should require at a minimum registration, inspection (fire code - window/egress, detectors, and ideally an extinguisher and fire blanket), proof of insurance, and some sort of bond per unit that the city holds onto and uses for emergency code compliance repairs.
- whateveracct 2mo ago
  > Because it's to an extreme degree a landlord's market and thus none of them have any incentive to do more than the bare minimum? okay let's change that? seems bad
  - stevekemp 2mo ago
    It's a landlord's market because there are not enough properties, if there was a larger supply the tenants would be able to make choices and defacto reject bad options. How do you change that, short of building more?
    - Symbiote 2mo ago
      Require advertisements for property to include the floor (and ground) area.
      - stevekemp 2mo ago
        While that would be useful it would not change it from a landlords-market - which is what the comment I replied to was about.
      - 9dev 2mo ago
        …and define rules for the measurement taken, like no stairs, count areas below roof sloping or outside on balconies etc. with a lower factor, exclude shared areas and cellars/attics, and so on. Not measuring correctly, not publishing the measurements, or publishing incorrect measurements outside an error margin gets counted as deception. Offer a simple reporting contact point to citizens to report landlords or offers that violate this regulation without a lawsuit.
owl57 2mo ago
> just looking at the pics it is impossible to gauge whether it is 400sqft or 900sqft Those are not good pics. Probably* for the same reason, to hide size and maybe something else. *Depends on culture and I don't know about NYC. I've seen another landlord's market where quite a few landlords just post one or two useless photos — and even heard advice to pay attention to such postings as they're definitely not prepared by a professional agent.
culopatin 2mo ago
Square footage is very much a lie in San Francisco as well
therealpygon 2mo ago
Wouldn’t it be easier for streeteasy to simply stop allowing 0 sq ft listings/innacurate listings? Maybe allowing people to report listings that are inaccurate and banning repeat offenders? If the market feels that strongly, the pressure on the company would be easy to achieve?

by filoleg 2mo ago

hbarka 2mo ago

> and I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information. The reason is simple. Omission is deception.

LgWoodenBadger 2mo ago
If it had a “good” square footage, it would be touted front and center. Because it’s not, you know it doesn’t. I see this all the time with motorcycle PPE. If something was CE A, AA, or AAA rated, it’d be at the top of the description/specs. When it’s not, I know it’s not so I just move on.
- drivingmenuts 2mo ago
  I wish that e-bike ads had the classification. The bike classes are well-defined AFAIK - it's the class legality that's regional, if any. Right now, they're actively helping riders skirt/evade the laws.
  - sidewndr46 2mo ago
    I'm pretty sure if they stopped skirting the laws, it'd eliminate a decent cohort of their customer base. Watching someone come through a pedestrian area at 45 mph on a "bicycle" that clearly is an electric motorcycle is pretty interesting.
    - moron4hire 2mo ago
      Holy crap! How do they stop at that speed with those thin bicycle tires?
      - pasc1878 2mo ago
        What thin bicycle tires - they are much thicker than normal. However yes they are a problem.
      - LoganDark 2mo ago
        My e-scooter reaches 45 mph (advertised as 53). Normally, you would stop using the brakes or regen.
      - pandaman 2mo ago
        Very slowly. Stopping is not as a big of an issue as cornering though - not only they don't have adequate traction for the speed and mass but they also don't use the front brake. Which is great as the trails which are fun to ride because of all the bends are also e-bike free other than old people riding their pedal-assist bikes at 15 mph.
- preg_match 2mo ago
  Where it gets tricky is when the good people and bad people start working together because they both sell bad products. What I mean is: purposefully not advertising your good traits front and center, so that your worse product then "shine" more. And then everyone catches on and all your signals are gone. It happens sometimes.
doginasuit 2mo ago
No value is essentially "smaller than you would find acceptable."

pclmulqdq 2mo ago

There is square footage on many NYC listings, but it’s wrong. They often have the square footage of the total area occupied by the apartment, including all the interior walls and columns that can take 20% of the area away.

luckman212 2mo ago
Don't forget about those common areas too! I've seen many cases where hallways, elevators, and stairwells were included in the square footage numbers.
- JoshTriplett 2mo ago
  The normal definition of square footage I've seen typically includes hallways and stairs. (Though often not garages.) Personally, I wish we would normalize including exact floor plans with measurements.
  - hirsin 2mo ago
    They mean the apartment building hallways and elevators. As in, if you summed the square footage of all the apartments on a floor, you'd get a number greater than the actual dimensions of the floor, because the common areas are counted multiple times.
    - hirako2000 2mo ago
      Could include the size of the pavements fronting the building and the basement with those trash bin also are shared space.
    - close04 2mo ago
      That shouldn’t be the case. In some cases it would also be ridiculous, when the common areas are larger than the apartments themselves (corridors, elevators, technical rooms, etc.). They do include the proportional square footage corresponding to each apartment. But this is still very misleading because some buildings have a lot of common areas that can double the advertised size of the very small apartments.

KennyBlanken 2mo ago

> I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information. Because it's to an extreme degree a landlord's market and thus none of them have any incentive to do more than the bare minimum? Even if it was listed everyone would "stretch" things by including closets and the like. The only way it would work is if the city did the measurements and maintained a database...but then you'd have people bribing the inspectors. they already do it over fire code. Renting an apartment should require at a minimum registration, inspection (fire code - window/egress, detectors, and ideally an extinguisher and fire blanket), proof of insurance, and some sort of bond per unit that the city holds onto and uses for emergency code compliance repairs.

whateveracct 2mo ago
> Because it's to an extreme degree a landlord's market and thus none of them have any incentive to do more than the bare minimum? okay let's change that? seems bad
- stevekemp 2mo ago
  It's a landlord's market because there are not enough properties, if there was a larger supply the tenants would be able to make choices and defacto reject bad options. How do you change that, short of building more?
  - Symbiote 2mo ago
    Require advertisements for property to include the floor (and ground) area.
    - stevekemp 2mo ago
      While that would be useful it would not change it from a landlords-market - which is what the comment I replied to was about.
    - 9dev 2mo ago
      …and define rules for the measurement taken, like no stairs, count areas below roof sloping or outside on balconies etc. with a lower factor, exclude shared areas and cellars/attics, and so on. Not measuring correctly, not publishing the measurements, or publishing incorrect measurements outside an error margin gets counted as deception. Offer a simple reporting contact point to citizens to report landlords or offers that violate this regulation without a lawsuit.

owl57 2mo ago

> just looking at the pics it is impossible to gauge whether it is 400sqft or 900sqft Those are not good pics. Probably* for the same reason, to hide size and maybe something else. *Depends on culture and I don't know about NYC. I've seen another landlord's market where quite a few landlords just post one or two useless photos — and even heard advice to pay attention to such postings as they're definitely not prepared by a professional agent.

culopatin 2mo ago

Square footage is very much a lie in San Francisco as well

therealpygon 2mo ago

Wouldn’t it be easier for streeteasy to simply stop allowing 0 sq ft listings/innacurate listings? Maybe allowing people to report listings that are inaccurate and banning repeat offenders? If the market feels that strongly, the pressure on the company would be easy to achieve?