5 ms·

He had a special singlet designed and undoubtedly carbon shoes. Makes you wonder how much raw human potential has progressed vs just having better equipment and

He had a special singlet designed and undoubtedly carbon shoes. Makes you wonder how much raw human potential has progressed vs just having better equipment and track surfaces?

jackmott42 2mo ago
The mile record has dropped due to equipment (tracks and shoes) and pacing innovation since the very first. And I repeat this all the time but nobody listens: modern shoes are fast because of the special foam and light weight, the carbon plates have very little to do with it, experiments have cut those plates in half and running economy remains unchanged. they likely provide important structural support for the thick foam, and carbon makes sense to use for that for weight reasons, on a budget plastic is fine.
- lynx__ 2mo ago
  Was the study you saw about carbon plates even for marathon distances?
jstanley 2mo ago
I'm sure the track surface and shoes are important, but if "singlet" means the clothing he is wearing? It's really hard to believe that makes a material difference.
- jackmott42 2mo ago
  It is very easy to do the math on the aerodynamics, even at running speeds it isn't insignificant. It drives me crazy that many pro marathoners are in flappy clothes, or big hair cuts! In a mile it could be between 1 and 7 tenths, depending on wind and and how bad the default outfit was. And that may seem insignificant but its big margins at the elite level.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- HarHarVeryFunny 2mo ago
  It seems conceivable - either less drag and/or some elastic store/return of energy, but OTOH I'm not aware of marathon runners (where you might think it'd make more difference) wearing any special kit. Could give a psychological boost though - a placebo effect - even if you only believe that it gives you an edge.
fidotron 2mo ago
The mention of pacemakers made me wonder if you could have some light marker on the track to show the ideal pace you should be keeping as well. If you can find the human equivalent of the rabbit for greyhounds then maybe even more could be achieved.
- ad_hockey 2mo ago
  Yep, they have that as well. You can see it in the photo here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/jul/18/josh-kerr-makes-athletics-history-by-shattering-one-mile-world-record-in-london https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/jul/18/josh-kerr-make...
  - fidotron 2mo ago
    Aha, thanks! Do you have any insight into what algorithm it uses? Like a ghost runner of the record pace or something?
    - ad_hockey 2mo ago
      I don't know. My knowledge is largely based on the caption of that photo :D I would guess it's just uniform world record pace, and it's up to the runner to use their own strategy - stay just in touch with the light for the first three laps and overtake it on the fourth, or something.
    - lynx__ 2mo ago
      The directors and organizers of the race control what the lights do. Typically they work with a specific athlete or group of athletes to hit a World Record, National Record, or Meet Record pace. They are almost always even splits, with a consistent pace through the entire race, though this can be adjusted if the runners request it; that is rare though. They typically have green lights, which is the target pace, and then a set of blue lights ahead of them, which gives a visual indicator of how far ahead a runner is from the green lights.
    - nianderwallace 2mo ago
      from https://www.letsrun.com/news/2026/07/chasing-342-inside-josh-kerrs-attempt-to-break-the-mile-world-record/ https://www.letsrun.com/news/2026/07/chasing-342-inside-josh... [Josh Kerr's coach, Danny] Mackey was set to have a meeting with representatives from Wavelight on Tuesday to discuss the pace. He said they have yet to lock in specific splits, but Kerr told LetsRun.com in April that “an even split or a slightly negative split, I think, is the way to do it.” 3:43.13 mile pace is 55.45 per 400, which would mean 1:50.90 at 800 if they were to go for even splits. Mackey says he hopes the pace is pretty even and “hopefully he’s got something left in the end.” They went through 800m in 1:51.1 according to another comment in this post.
cwbuilds 2mo ago
The shoes definitely help, but there are all sorts of other innovations that get far less press. More is known about optimal fuelling, hydration and sleep. Improve those and you improve your daily training. Better quality training compounds and allows you to reach closer to your talent ceiling. Kerr also had a system set up so his bedroom had less oxygen than the rest of his house (to mimic sleeping at altitude). He had two pacers breaking the air for the first 1,000m (although he had to do it himself the rest of the way, which was bloody impressive). Meant he could relax mentally for the first 2.5 laps and didn't have to focus on pace. I think El Guerrouj set the previous WR in a race without pacers. They also had pacing lights on the track which helps the pacers run at an even pace. And there are all sorts of innovations like taking sodium bicarbonate to reduce muscle acidity, nitrates to dilate the veins and increase blood flow to muscles and high doses of caffeine to reduce the rate of perceived exertion. As someone else mentioned, track surfaces are generally a little bouncier now than they used to be.
- rustyhancock 2mo ago
  Nitrates to dilate vessels just seems like cheating in the PED sense
  - goodmythical 2mo ago
    Where do you draw the line? (I know that the answer to that question is always 'somewhere') No one's getting significant levels of baking soda from their diet, and caffeine is a relatively recent cultural addition to most diets. The gels are much the same. Getting the same nutiritional ratios used to require carefully controlled eating and certainly weighed vastly more than the gels adding both weight and complexity and likely being less performant. Most(?) sports handle this by maintaining multiple leaderboards. The sub two hour 26.2 mile run was broken years ago, but the sub 2 marathon race was only recently completed, for instance. The difference being that the original was done much like this one in that it was paced, on a track, etc while the later was run in typical marathon conditions with other racers, variable winds etc.
    - 2mo ago
Lio 2mo ago
If it's just the singlet and the shoes you would expect lots of other runners to get close too. It's surprising that the previous record stood for 27 years if the equipment has been progressing since then.
- AceyMan 2mo ago
  Not when you consider that El Garrouj was a freak. The reason it stood for so long is that it was a helluva record.
goodmythical 2mo ago
>Makes you wonder how much raw human potential has progressed Surely raw human potential cannot have progressed very much at all in the (at most) two generations represented by the 27 years the record stood. Granted, the population is significantly higher, so it is more statistically likely that we've produced a genuinely faster human than existed 27 years ago. I think it's fairly well accepted that most of the records being broken now are down to tech, nutrition, and aids. Springier shoes, mechanical pacers, better 'fuels', deeper understanding of exercise periodization, etc. Give the old record runner all of the same boosts, the same training, I can't imagine he'd be noticeably slower, perhaps within hundreths, but I'd bet within a tenth or two.
- chneu 2mo ago
  I think a lot of it is also more people doing the sports. We are assuming the old record is "the best a human can do because one person did it best" or some form of that. There are likely hundreds or thousands of people alive right now who could break this record given the same lifestyle and training.
- imoverclocked 2mo ago
  Not everybody who can run, runs. Not everybody who runs, runs close to their full potential. Even elite athletes have a life that can “get in the way.” Many who run close to their full potential get injured and set their training back.
  - bonsai_spool 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - multjoy 2mo ago
      Why do you think this comment is helpful?
      - bonsai_spool 2mo ago
hnthrow10282910 2mo ago
[flagged]
- seanhunter 2mo ago
  Hn has entered “bro do you even lift?” Territory.

He had a special singlet designed and undoubtedly carbon shoes. Makes you wonder how much raw human potential has progressed vs just having better equipment and track surfaces?

jackmott42 2mo ago

The mile record has dropped due to equipment (tracks and shoes) and pacing innovation since the very first. And I repeat this all the time but nobody listens: modern shoes are fast because of the special foam and light weight, the carbon plates have very little to do with it, experiments have cut those plates in half and running economy remains unchanged. they likely provide important structural support for the thick foam, and carbon makes sense to use for that for weight reasons, on a budget plastic is fine.

lynx__ 2mo ago
Was the study you saw about carbon plates even for marathon distances?

jstanley 2mo ago

I'm sure the track surface and shoes are important, but if "singlet" means the clothing he is wearing? It's really hard to believe that makes a material difference.

jackmott42 2mo ago
It is very easy to do the math on the aerodynamics, even at running speeds it isn't insignificant. It drives me crazy that many pro marathoners are in flappy clothes, or big hair cuts! In a mile it could be between 1 and 7 tenths, depending on wind and and how bad the default outfit was. And that may seem insignificant but its big margins at the elite level.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
HarHarVeryFunny 2mo ago
It seems conceivable - either less drag and/or some elastic store/return of energy, but OTOH I'm not aware of marathon runners (where you might think it'd make more difference) wearing any special kit. Could give a psychological boost though - a placebo effect - even if you only believe that it gives you an edge.

fidotron 2mo ago

The mention of pacemakers made me wonder if you could have some light marker on the track to show the ideal pace you should be keeping as well. If you can find the human equivalent of the rabbit for greyhounds then maybe even more could be achieved.

ad_hockey 2mo ago
Yep, they have that as well. You can see it in the photo here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/jul/18/josh-kerr-makes-athletics-history-by-shattering-one-mile-world-record-in-london https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/jul/18/josh-kerr-make...
- fidotron 2mo ago
  Aha, thanks! Do you have any insight into what algorithm it uses? Like a ghost runner of the record pace or something?
  - ad_hockey 2mo ago
    I don't know. My knowledge is largely based on the caption of that photo :D I would guess it's just uniform world record pace, and it's up to the runner to use their own strategy - stay just in touch with the light for the first three laps and overtake it on the fourth, or something.
  - lynx__ 2mo ago
    The directors and organizers of the race control what the lights do. Typically they work with a specific athlete or group of athletes to hit a World Record, National Record, or Meet Record pace. They are almost always even splits, with a consistent pace through the entire race, though this can be adjusted if the runners request it; that is rare though. They typically have green lights, which is the target pace, and then a set of blue lights ahead of them, which gives a visual indicator of how far ahead a runner is from the green lights.
  - nianderwallace 2mo ago
    from https://www.letsrun.com/news/2026/07/chasing-342-inside-josh-kerrs-attempt-to-break-the-mile-world-record/ https://www.letsrun.com/news/2026/07/chasing-342-inside-josh... [Josh Kerr's coach, Danny] Mackey was set to have a meeting with representatives from Wavelight on Tuesday to discuss the pace. He said they have yet to lock in specific splits, but Kerr told LetsRun.com in April that “an even split or a slightly negative split, I think, is the way to do it.” 3:43.13 mile pace is 55.45 per 400, which would mean 1:50.90 at 800 if they were to go for even splits. Mackey says he hopes the pace is pretty even and “hopefully he’s got something left in the end.” They went through 800m in 1:51.1 according to another comment in this post.

cwbuilds 2mo ago

The shoes definitely help, but there are all sorts of other innovations that get far less press. More is known about optimal fuelling, hydration and sleep. Improve those and you improve your daily training. Better quality training compounds and allows you to reach closer to your talent ceiling. Kerr also had a system set up so his bedroom had less oxygen than the rest of his house (to mimic sleeping at altitude). He had two pacers breaking the air for the first 1,000m (although he had to do it himself the rest of the way, which was bloody impressive). Meant he could relax mentally for the first 2.5 laps and didn't have to focus on pace. I think El Guerrouj set the previous WR in a race without pacers. They also had pacing lights on the track which helps the pacers run at an even pace. And there are all sorts of innovations like taking sodium bicarbonate to reduce muscle acidity, nitrates to dilate the veins and increase blood flow to muscles and high doses of caffeine to reduce the rate of perceived exertion. As someone else mentioned, track surfaces are generally a little bouncier now than they used to be.

rustyhancock 2mo ago
Nitrates to dilate vessels just seems like cheating in the PED sense
- goodmythical 2mo ago
  Where do you draw the line? (I know that the answer to that question is always 'somewhere') No one's getting significant levels of baking soda from their diet, and caffeine is a relatively recent cultural addition to most diets. The gels are much the same. Getting the same nutiritional ratios used to require carefully controlled eating and certainly weighed vastly more than the gels adding both weight and complexity and likely being less performant. Most(?) sports handle this by maintaining multiple leaderboards. The sub two hour 26.2 mile run was broken years ago, but the sub 2 marathon race was only recently completed, for instance. The difference being that the original was done much like this one in that it was paced, on a track, etc while the later was run in typical marathon conditions with other racers, variable winds etc.
  - 2mo ago

Lio 2mo ago

If it's just the singlet and the shoes you would expect lots of other runners to get close too. It's surprising that the previous record stood for 27 years if the equipment has been progressing since then.

AceyMan 2mo ago
Not when you consider that El Garrouj was a freak. The reason it stood for so long is that it was a helluva record.

goodmythical 2mo ago

>Makes you wonder how much raw human potential has progressed Surely raw human potential cannot have progressed very much at all in the (at most) two generations represented by the 27 years the record stood. Granted, the population is significantly higher, so it is more statistically likely that we've produced a genuinely faster human than existed 27 years ago. I think it's fairly well accepted that most of the records being broken now are down to tech, nutrition, and aids. Springier shoes, mechanical pacers, better 'fuels', deeper understanding of exercise periodization, etc. Give the old record runner all of the same boosts, the same training, I can't imagine he'd be noticeably slower, perhaps within hundreths, but I'd bet within a tenth or two.

chneu 2mo ago
I think a lot of it is also more people doing the sports. We are assuming the old record is "the best a human can do because one person did it best" or some form of that. There are likely hundreds or thousands of people alive right now who could break this record given the same lifestyle and training.
imoverclocked 2mo ago
Not everybody who can run, runs. Not everybody who runs, runs close to their full potential. Even elite athletes have a life that can “get in the way.” Many who run close to their full potential get injured and set their training back.
- bonsai_spool 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - multjoy 2mo ago
    Why do you think this comment is helpful?
    - bonsai_spool 2mo ago

hnthrow10282910 2mo ago

[flagged]

seanhunter 2mo ago
Hn has entered “bro do you even lift?” Territory.