6 ms·

I don't like USB-C because they all look the same on the outside, but they're not all the same on the inside. Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometime

I don't like USB-C because they all look the same on the outside, but they're not all the same on the inside. Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometimes they will charge, sometimes they won't charge, but all the cables look the same, and you don't tend to know in advance.

Onavo 2mo ago
I wish there are easy ways to figure out the maximum current and wattage supported by a cable. So many cables don't label themselves except on the box!
- freehorse 2mo ago
  Personally I have stopped buying cables that do not disclose this information. There are pretty fine alternatives that do, so I see no reason to take gambles. My only issues so far come from charging protocols rather than cables anyway. Moreover, stuff like how many watts a cable supports are issues that happen regardless connector type.
- joshstrange 2mo ago
  You're welcome: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYJL5Z67 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYJL5Z67 This device let me categorize all my loose cables (and throw out the truly terrible ones). It was worth every penny.
  - freehorse 2mo ago
    Not saying this device is not cool, but one can also get this info easily in a computer, if you find out what to look for. One had presented a utility here some time ago with a menu bar icon showing this information https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47972511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47972511
    - joshstrange 2mo ago
      If I remember correctly, that application/your computer is simply reading what the device _claims_ it can do whereas this device tests it. That app is probably a good place to start but I wouldn't trust it fully.
  - kps 2mo ago
    > Reads eMarker chip parameters in Type-C cables, providing detailed performance information (e.g., maximum current, voltage, data transfer rates) to help users fully understand cable capabilities and ensure safe, efficient device usage. Good thing nobody lies.
  - mystifyingpoi 2mo ago
    These PD testers are cool (I thought about buying one), but honestly, for the price of a tester, one can buy 2, maybe even 3 good quality cables and just throw away the rest.
    - joshstrange 2mo ago
      Fair point, I just have oodles of cables (literally 10-20+ per combo of micro/mini/standard-USB-A/B/C <-> micro/mini/standard-USB-A/B/C each) and I like having them all organized by capability so that when I need one I can grab from right bin. Before getting the tester I just kept buying new "known good" cables whenever I needed one since my cable drawer was just a huge unknown.
- PaulHoule 2mo ago
  Note there is a link at the end of the article to a device which can test cables and determine exactly that! But it's a sign of the problem that you need that thing. With USB-C cables I tend to throw them out unless they are premium cables that cost upwards of $20, I mean I could keep the cheap ones around to charge this or that but cheap cables have this way of going bad, like they are supposed to work if you plug them in either way except they don't, you plug your cheap device in overnight to charge and it doesn't really charge, etc. No way I could trust my wife to handle it. Personally I think USB got worse in a lot of ways in the 3.0 generation, like at 1.0 they designed a bus architecture that could enumerate 127 devices on a root hub. USB 3.0 doesn't promise anything and ff you start plugging in hubs to your laptop you will hit undocumented limits and find devices start dropping out randomly when you've plugged in several devices and it gives me the heebie jeebies because a mass storage device could drop out. I know mainstream filesytems today are pretty durable but still...
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    Even the simplest 3-wire cable with nothing but wires in it will handle 45W charging already, which is enough to power my laptop. It needs to be physically broken to not work. If it doesn't, it's usually the device's fault. There are many cheap devices out there that are just USB-C-shaped and don't actually implement the spec, working with some kinds of cables and not working with others.
PhilipRoman 2mo ago
Yeah I have some devices that expect the manufacturer charger (I guess it's pre-negotiated to 19V or something) and I'm not even sure what was the point in giving it a USB C connector.
- soneil 2mo ago
  I have a couple of devices that are 12V over usb-c. The devices themselves are fine, but the wallwarts the mffr provided are just that - 12v over usb-c. No PD. If a device is expecting 5V, there's a healthy chance it'll .. stop expecting 5V. We blame usb-c for all this, but it does feel like some mffrs are going out of their way to screw it up.
  - rangestransform 2mo ago
    Imagine if all USB-C cables had a patent owned by the consortium and an identification chip made by the consortium. The spec could require that devices would not use the cable at all unless the chip is cryptographically verified, and bad cable manufacturers could be sued into oblivion for breaking the patent. The more I age, and the more I expect my devices to justwork™, the more I appreciate Apple’s pro consumer monopolistic moves.
- Gigachad 2mo ago
  >I guess it's pre-negotiated to 19V or something This kind of defect is extremely rare since this would basically be a USB killer frying every other device you plug it in to. 99% of the time it's the device is missing some resistors on the cc pins which signal to the charger to send 5v. Since usb-c it defaults to 0v until you request something. But USB-A has no CC pins so it just puts 5v out at all times.
namuol 2mo ago
If switching to a type-A charger fixes it, it’s probably the device manufacturer’s fault, not the cable. Many manufacturers that need the 5v standard you’d normally get from an old type-A charger screw this up. For universal USB-C power support that works with modern power bricks, you need to tie 5k resistors to two pins of the port on the device. This tells the charger to use 5v. I can’t tell you how much cheap stuff out there omits these. They cost almost nothing but they still screw this up over and over, and people blame the standard or the cable…
- Gigachad 2mo ago
  I don't think it's cost reasons these are being omitted. The customer refunds would easily exceed the savings. It's most likely designers just swapping a micro usb port with a usb c one in an old design while making no other changes and seeing it works with the A to C cable they have.
  - namuol 2mo ago
    I share your theory about micro usb, yeah. I know it’s not cost savings, it’s just lazy/ignorant. If they’re changing the footprint on the board for a type-c port, they can add some smd resistors.
- starkrights 2mo ago
  I know of something expensive that omits it too! My insulin pump controller is a junkpile android phone (a NUU Mobile N5004L for the curious) whose only purpose in life is to run a singular android app. The device charges via usb-c, but refuses to do so if the charger is any relatively modern usb-c based brick. Only usb-a!
  - namuol 2mo ago
    Ugh, that’s infuriating to read, if not at all surprising. This sounds at once totally over-engineered (in the modern day, negative sense of the word) while being simultaneously under-engineered (in the traditional sense).
benoau 2mo ago
The thickness / durability of the cable is a pretty good indicator, if it's thin and flexible it'll only do basic charging if it's thick and durable it's because it's packing enough wiring to do power delivery, video etc, everything except probably Thunderbolt.
- ssl-3 2mo ago
  All standards-adherent cables that are adorned with USB C connectors at each end can supply at least 60W of power. This has nothing to do with feels.
CharlesW 2mo ago
> I don't like USB-C because they all look the same on the outside, but they're not all the same on the inside. Many people don't realize that USB-C (USB Type-C) just refers to the physical connector. At minimum, speed and power ratings should have been required for any cable using USB-C at one or both ends. It's almost breathtaking to consider how the USB Implementers Forum has fumbled these kinds of basic issues over the years.
- Gigachad 2mo ago
  USB-IF actually does have pretty clear labeling and standards that address most of the issues being posted in this thread. But most USB devices and cables are not certified and not compliant with the specs. Short of making USB proprietary and behind a licensing and certification scheme there is no way to solve this. People need to stop buying cheap junk.
orphea 2mo ago
Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometimes they will charge, sometimes they won't charge This is not USB C's fault. It's the manufacturers who cheaped out a cent - or even less - on CC resistors.
- superxpro12 2mo ago
  on 0401 5k resistor is fractions of a penny. its just silly at this point. My belief is that they all used some crappy reference schematic which omitted it once upon a time, and that's proliferated amongst all the cheapo designs.
rootusrootus 2mo ago
Yeah maybe USB-D will get it right. But probably not. I had such high hopes for USB-C. Now I keep a couple USB-C to USB-A adapters lying around to force the charger (which is just a normal home outlet with a couple built-in USB-C ports) to speak old school USB-A charging instead of trying to negotiate PD with a shitty device that did not implement USB-C correctly. Yes that's the fault of the manufacturer. But the wildly flexible spec for USB-C let it happen.
- vablings 2mo ago
  It's not a flexible specification, its straight up bad engineering. The specification literally says if you do not want negotiation, you must add the resistor.
- acheron 2mo ago
  Unfortunately the EU has written USB-C into law, so there will never be a USB-D. I guess we should be glad they didn’t do this 30 years ago, or we’d still be using PS/2 connectors.
  - Narishma 2mo ago
    Law is not immutable. It will be changed if/when there is a need to.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
vablings 2mo ago
Buy yourself a handful of good cable for charging. (I quite like the silicone anker 643) And throw everything else away in a box. For data transfer you can just pick up one or two thunderbolt 5 rated cables, they will do max transfer for USB4, or any other spec in the near future. The LTT true spec cables are fairly priced but there are other big brands that sell the same thing. Keep a shitty USB-A to C for those devices that do not have the correct pulldown resistor to support 5v 2a charging.
russdill 2mo ago
This is an acceptable failure mode. I'd be nice if there was a standardized LED flash or color that you could get so if your relative said something isn't working, you could ask, "Is it flashing three times?" or whatever. The alternative is barrel connectors. If you plug in the wrong one, there's a decent chance that it a) won't work, or b) never work again.
- vel0city 2mo ago
  And then you go someplace, realize you left your charger at home, and find out despite your friend having dozens of barrel type power connector power adapters not a single one match the size/voltage/amperage/polarity of your device. Or you just borrow their USB-C adapter and don't have any worries.
- kalleboo 2mo ago
  > The alternative is barrel connectors. If you plug in the wrong one, there's a decent chance that it a) won't work, or b) never work again. I remember my parents had a D-Link ADSL modem and a D-Link router. They even stacked onto of each other with rubber feet! They had identical-looking power bricks, with the same barrel plug. They were different voltages!
seba_dos1 2mo ago
Usually they won't charge because they're not actually USB-C devices but are just broken and only pretend to be one (mostly due to missing resistors on CC lines, but there are other ways a device can be non-compliant too).
usrusr 2mo ago
I read about this so often, yet it's a problem I just never encountered. If I need super high bandwidth like connecting a display, I pick one of those annoyingly unlflexible fat cables. Easy. They even tend to feature the TB4 flash icon. Surely I would not expect any of the light and nimble ones to do that trick. When I need strong PD, it's also either one of those or one of the far more flexible but still quite thick braided ones. Often they have some hinge gimmick connector to prevent any hope for bandwidth one might be tempted to have. All other cables, I expect nothing but legacy USB. Yeah, and some of those won't do data at all (curiosly those are never the lightest cables in my stable, the lightest ones tend to do the legacy USB "gear not, some bits will eventually get through!" just fine)
notatoad 2mo ago
This is really only a problem if you buy cheap cables. Pick the baseline spec you want your USB cables to meet, and throw out all the ones that don’t. Problem solved. It’s still a minor frustration if you have to borrow a cable, but that’s solved by packing a cable, and by encouraging as many other people as possible to also throw out their cheap cables.
- qurren 2mo ago
  If you want to cover all use cases your only option are the 240 W, 40 Gbps cables, and they are not cheap (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charging/dp/B09YM3V7NX?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charg...).
  - notatoad 2mo ago
    amazon hides some prices because i'm viewing the page from canada, but it looks like that says the cable you linked is $15? that's what i've been paying for cables, and it seems reasonable to me.
    - qurren 2mo ago
      It's a cable, it should cost $2 at most.
      - notatoad 2mo ago
        okay, i mean, that's exactly what my original comment said: this is only a problem if you buy cheap cables.
        pineapplepizza6 2mo ago
        If some of your devices require a $30 cable and you use the same cables for everything, then you use a $30 cable for your mouse.
kccqzy 2mo ago
> Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometimes they will charge, sometimes they won't charge You can fix that by buying USB-C to USB-C adapters with 5.1 kiloohm resistors. It should have taken the manufacturer less than one cent to include the resistors, but as a consumer product they will unfortunately cost at least a dollar each.

Onavo 2mo ago

I wish there are easy ways to figure out the maximum current and wattage supported by a cable. So many cables don't label themselves except on the box!

freehorse 2mo ago
Personally I have stopped buying cables that do not disclose this information. There are pretty fine alternatives that do, so I see no reason to take gambles. My only issues so far come from charging protocols rather than cables anyway. Moreover, stuff like how many watts a cable supports are issues that happen regardless connector type.
joshstrange 2mo ago
You're welcome: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYJL5Z67 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYJL5Z67 This device let me categorize all my loose cables (and throw out the truly terrible ones). It was worth every penny.
- freehorse 2mo ago
  Not saying this device is not cool, but one can also get this info easily in a computer, if you find out what to look for. One had presented a utility here some time ago with a menu bar icon showing this information https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47972511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47972511
  - joshstrange 2mo ago
    If I remember correctly, that application/your computer is simply reading what the device _claims_ it can do whereas this device tests it. That app is probably a good place to start but I wouldn't trust it fully.
- kps 2mo ago
  > Reads eMarker chip parameters in Type-C cables, providing detailed performance information (e.g., maximum current, voltage, data transfer rates) to help users fully understand cable capabilities and ensure safe, efficient device usage. Good thing nobody lies.
- mystifyingpoi 2mo ago
  These PD testers are cool (I thought about buying one), but honestly, for the price of a tester, one can buy 2, maybe even 3 good quality cables and just throw away the rest.
  - joshstrange 2mo ago
    Fair point, I just have oodles of cables (literally 10-20+ per combo of micro/mini/standard-USB-A/B/C <-> micro/mini/standard-USB-A/B/C each) and I like having them all organized by capability so that when I need one I can grab from right bin. Before getting the tester I just kept buying new "known good" cables whenever I needed one since my cable drawer was just a huge unknown.
PaulHoule 2mo ago
Note there is a link at the end of the article to a device which can test cables and determine exactly that! But it's a sign of the problem that you need that thing. With USB-C cables I tend to throw them out unless they are premium cables that cost upwards of $20, I mean I could keep the cheap ones around to charge this or that but cheap cables have this way of going bad, like they are supposed to work if you plug them in either way except they don't, you plug your cheap device in overnight to charge and it doesn't really charge, etc. No way I could trust my wife to handle it. Personally I think USB got worse in a lot of ways in the 3.0 generation, like at 1.0 they designed a bus architecture that could enumerate 127 devices on a root hub. USB 3.0 doesn't promise anything and ff you start plugging in hubs to your laptop you will hit undocumented limits and find devices start dropping out randomly when you've plugged in several devices and it gives me the heebie jeebies because a mass storage device could drop out. I know mainstream filesytems today are pretty durable but still...
- seba_dos1 2mo ago
  Even the simplest 3-wire cable with nothing but wires in it will handle 45W charging already, which is enough to power my laptop. It needs to be physically broken to not work. If it doesn't, it's usually the device's fault. There are many cheap devices out there that are just USB-C-shaped and don't actually implement the spec, working with some kinds of cables and not working with others.

PhilipRoman 2mo ago

Yeah I have some devices that expect the manufacturer charger (I guess it's pre-negotiated to 19V or something) and I'm not even sure what was the point in giving it a USB C connector.

soneil 2mo ago
I have a couple of devices that are 12V over usb-c. The devices themselves are fine, but the wallwarts the mffr provided are just that - 12v over usb-c. No PD. If a device is expecting 5V, there's a healthy chance it'll .. stop expecting 5V. We blame usb-c for all this, but it does feel like some mffrs are going out of their way to screw it up.
- rangestransform 2mo ago
  Imagine if all USB-C cables had a patent owned by the consortium and an identification chip made by the consortium. The spec could require that devices would not use the cable at all unless the chip is cryptographically verified, and bad cable manufacturers could be sued into oblivion for breaking the patent. The more I age, and the more I expect my devices to justwork™, the more I appreciate Apple’s pro consumer monopolistic moves.
Gigachad 2mo ago
>I guess it's pre-negotiated to 19V or something This kind of defect is extremely rare since this would basically be a USB killer frying every other device you plug it in to. 99% of the time it's the device is missing some resistors on the cc pins which signal to the charger to send 5v. Since usb-c it defaults to 0v until you request something. But USB-A has no CC pins so it just puts 5v out at all times.

namuol 2mo ago

If switching to a type-A charger fixes it, it’s probably the device manufacturer’s fault, not the cable. Many manufacturers that need the 5v standard you’d normally get from an old type-A charger screw this up. For universal USB-C power support that works with modern power bricks, you need to tie 5k resistors to two pins of the port on the device. This tells the charger to use 5v. I can’t tell you how much cheap stuff out there omits these. They cost almost nothing but they still screw this up over and over, and people blame the standard or the cable…

Gigachad 2mo ago
I don't think it's cost reasons these are being omitted. The customer refunds would easily exceed the savings. It's most likely designers just swapping a micro usb port with a usb c one in an old design while making no other changes and seeing it works with the A to C cable they have.
- namuol 2mo ago
  I share your theory about micro usb, yeah. I know it’s not cost savings, it’s just lazy/ignorant. If they’re changing the footprint on the board for a type-c port, they can add some smd resistors.
starkrights 2mo ago
I know of something expensive that omits it too! My insulin pump controller is a junkpile android phone (a NUU Mobile N5004L for the curious) whose only purpose in life is to run a singular android app. The device charges via usb-c, but refuses to do so if the charger is any relatively modern usb-c based brick. Only usb-a!
- namuol 2mo ago
  Ugh, that’s infuriating to read, if not at all surprising. This sounds at once totally over-engineered (in the modern day, negative sense of the word) while being simultaneously under-engineered (in the traditional sense).

benoau 2mo ago

The thickness / durability of the cable is a pretty good indicator, if it's thin and flexible it'll only do basic charging if it's thick and durable it's because it's packing enough wiring to do power delivery, video etc, everything except probably Thunderbolt.

ssl-3 2mo ago
All standards-adherent cables that are adorned with USB C connectors at each end can supply at least 60W of power. This has nothing to do with feels.

CharlesW 2mo ago

> I don't like USB-C because they all look the same on the outside, but they're not all the same on the inside. Many people don't realize that USB-C (USB Type-C) just refers to the physical connector. At minimum, speed and power ratings should have been required for any cable using USB-C at one or both ends. It's almost breathtaking to consider how the USB Implementers Forum has fumbled these kinds of basic issues over the years.

Gigachad 2mo ago
USB-IF actually does have pretty clear labeling and standards that address most of the issues being posted in this thread. But most USB devices and cables are not certified and not compliant with the specs. Short of making USB proprietary and behind a licensing and certification scheme there is no way to solve this. People need to stop buying cheap junk.

orphea 2mo ago

Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometimes they will charge, sometimes they won't charge This is not USB C's fault. It's the manufacturers who cheaped out a cent - or even less - on CC resistors.

superxpro12 2mo ago
on 0401 5k resistor is fractions of a penny. its just silly at this point. My belief is that they all used some crappy reference schematic which omitted it once upon a time, and that's proliferated amongst all the cheapo designs.

rootusrootus 2mo ago

Yeah maybe USB-D will get it right. But probably not. I had such high hopes for USB-C. Now I keep a couple USB-C to USB-A adapters lying around to force the charger (which is just a normal home outlet with a couple built-in USB-C ports) to speak old school USB-A charging instead of trying to negotiate PD with a shitty device that did not implement USB-C correctly. Yes that's the fault of the manufacturer. But the wildly flexible spec for USB-C let it happen.

vablings 2mo ago
It's not a flexible specification, its straight up bad engineering. The specification literally says if you do not want negotiation, you must add the resistor.
acheron 2mo ago
Unfortunately the EU has written USB-C into law, so there will never be a USB-D. I guess we should be glad they didn’t do this 30 years ago, or we’d still be using PS/2 connectors.
- Narishma 2mo ago
  Law is not immutable. It will be changed if/when there is a need to.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]

vablings 2mo ago

Buy yourself a handful of good cable for charging. (I quite like the silicone anker 643) And throw everything else away in a box. For data transfer you can just pick up one or two thunderbolt 5 rated cables, they will do max transfer for USB4, or any other spec in the near future. The LTT true spec cables are fairly priced but there are other big brands that sell the same thing. Keep a shitty USB-A to C for those devices that do not have the correct pulldown resistor to support 5v 2a charging.

russdill 2mo ago

This is an acceptable failure mode. I'd be nice if there was a standardized LED flash or color that you could get so if your relative said something isn't working, you could ask, "Is it flashing three times?" or whatever. The alternative is barrel connectors. If you plug in the wrong one, there's a decent chance that it a) won't work, or b) never work again.

vel0city 2mo ago
And then you go someplace, realize you left your charger at home, and find out despite your friend having dozens of barrel type power connector power adapters not a single one match the size/voltage/amperage/polarity of your device. Or you just borrow their USB-C adapter and don't have any worries.
kalleboo 2mo ago
> The alternative is barrel connectors. If you plug in the wrong one, there's a decent chance that it a) won't work, or b) never work again. I remember my parents had a D-Link ADSL modem and a D-Link router. They even stacked onto of each other with rubber feet! They had identical-looking power bricks, with the same barrel plug. They were different voltages!

seba_dos1 2mo ago

Usually they won't charge because they're not actually USB-C devices but are just broken and only pretend to be one (mostly due to missing resistors on CC lines, but there are other ways a device can be non-compliant too).

usrusr 2mo ago

I read about this so often, yet it's a problem I just never encountered. If I need super high bandwidth like connecting a display, I pick one of those annoyingly unlflexible fat cables. Easy. They even tend to feature the TB4 flash icon. Surely I would not expect any of the light and nimble ones to do that trick. When I need strong PD, it's also either one of those or one of the far more flexible but still quite thick braided ones. Often they have some hinge gimmick connector to prevent any hope for bandwidth one might be tempted to have. All other cables, I expect nothing but legacy USB. Yeah, and some of those won't do data at all (curiosly those are never the lightest cables in my stable, the lightest ones tend to do the legacy USB "gear not, some bits will eventually get through!" just fine)

notatoad 2mo ago

This is really only a problem if you buy cheap cables. Pick the baseline spec you want your USB cables to meet, and throw out all the ones that don’t. Problem solved. It’s still a minor frustration if you have to borrow a cable, but that’s solved by packing a cable, and by encouraging as many other people as possible to also throw out their cheap cables.

qurren 2mo ago
If you want to cover all use cases your only option are the 240 W, 40 Gbps cables, and they are not cheap (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charging/dp/B09YM3V7NX?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Supports-Display-Transfer-Charg...).
- notatoad 2mo ago
  amazon hides some prices because i'm viewing the page from canada, but it looks like that says the cable you linked is $15? that's what i've been paying for cables, and it seems reasonable to me.
  - qurren 2mo ago
    It's a cable, it should cost $2 at most.
    - notatoad 2mo ago
      okay, i mean, that's exactly what my original comment said: this is only a problem if you buy cheap cables.
      - pineapplepizza6 2mo ago
        If some of your devices require a $30 cable and you use the same cables for everything, then you use a $30 cable for your mouse.

kccqzy 2mo ago

> Especially my cheap consumer electronics. Sometimes they will charge, sometimes they won't charge You can fix that by buying USB-C to USB-C adapters with 5.1 kiloohm resistors. It should have taken the manufacturer less than one cent to include the resistors, but as a consumer product they will unfortunately cost at least a dollar each.