6 ms·

It's not uncommon to see people (and young people) reading on public transport here in Spain. The odd thing is how popular actual paper books are vs. e-readers.

It's not uncommon to see people (and young people) reading on public transport here in Spain. The odd thing is how popular actual paper books are vs. e-readers. Since I got my Kindle in 2015 I haven't read a paper book since. That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. And if we look at stuff like the PISA scores, it doesn't seem like this supposed higher rate of reading is paying many dividends.

ghusto 2mo ago
> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. It's not all that odd to me. The barrier of entry to getting something printed and published is much, much, higher than putting something online, which effects the quality quite a bit. Obviously there are complete wastes of paper out there in terms of published books, but as a generalisation it's not odd to presume a printed book is going to be of higher quality than a webpage.
- broken-kebab 2mo ago
  You are describing monetization quality, not content quality. Printing has its moat, yes, which better protects it from copying, and process of consuming from interruptions, and creates payment in advance situation. Printing houses produce enormous amounts of cliche-by-cliche semi-porn "romantic novels", and various sensationalist garbage, and earn money without suffocating dependency on Google, FB and such. Good for them.
jermaustin1 2mo ago
> many books are pretty low quality. Even low-quality books have words people might not know. I often find people who don't read books (physical or eBook) have a much lower vocabulary, and they typically don't value vocabulary, which as an avid reader, I find weird, but I guess to each their own.
- carljungslabtek 2mo ago
  Yeah sadly let’s not kid ourselves, most people on their phone on the subway (in the USA) are watching very low quality short form video content. Or they’re reading gossip subreddits or something. If you want to really scare yourself go check out what teachers have to say about the current crop of students and their literacy rates. We should 100% ban all smart devices for people under 18. Not just in schools but entirely. Middle schoolers literally can’t spell their own names, or words like “want” and “cat”. I would have assumed some of the teachers were pearl-clutching but it’s not just a few of them saying this, it’s all of them, including my own mom who I trust a lot.
lbrito 2mo ago
>That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. That's a weird take. The internet has basically no barriers. Book publishing, with all of its many flaws, does. Anyone can technically self publish a book, but the odds that you'll find someone on the subway reading it are small. So odds are the book you see people reading on transit is on average better than an internet content.
- pessimizer 2mo ago
  No, the vast majority of published books are (and have always been) an insult to trees.
FranOntanaya 2mo ago
Most places where people do their weekly groceries in Spain have at least a small book section if not a bookstore by the entrance. It's a typical thing to bring over to the beach or a weekend trip that doesn't matter if it gets damaged or lost. Myself I have an e-ink reader but almost always take a paper book on the subway. It's still better quality print, not fragile in any way that matters, and I don't have to think about charge or aging electronics. I only bring the e-reader for manuals and such that change too often to be worth the paper cost, but still miss the old coding manuals with their ad-hoc page sizes, the spatial sense of where the information was in a book was part of the memory anchoring.
christkv 2mo ago
I´ve ended up switching back to paper for half of my reading. Kids prefer paper for reading to. Kindle goes with me on vacation when I don´t want to drag around 2-3 kilos of paper (Reading chunky history books at the moment).
bojan 2mo ago
I wonder if this is the reason Spain resisted the advent of far right for so long, compared to its European counterparts.
- pessimizer 2mo ago
  The Spanish Civil War would like to have a word with you, but maybe Franco is part of "the resistance" now.
  - mejutoco 2mo ago
    Franco died in 1975. They clearly mean recently.
    - pezezin 2mo ago
      He might have died 50 years ago, but sadly his shadow is very, very long even to this day...
      - elnatro 2mo ago
        Not really. If you compare Spanish politics with UK, for example.
  - bojan 2mo ago
    What an odd comment. I'd think it's obvious I referred to the current wave that started 15* years ago. * give or take some years
    - cyclopeanutopia 2mo ago
      Isn't it obvious that nothing is obvious?
      - bojan 2mo ago
        Obviously not.
sebastiennight 2mo ago
> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. You've received several answers on the "quality" side due to books being harder to create, but I'll cover two more arguments: 1. Nobody's "reading the internet" anymore, especially not on their phones. They're mindlessly scrolling short-form video, either muted or blasting them really loud with no headphones, if my experience of Spanish subway is accurate. 2. Even if all books were just printed directly from random internet pages, and there was zero difference in quality, it would be a huge step-up to go from reading one internet page at a time, to focusing on the same content for 200+ pages in a row. There is huge value in giving ourselves the longer attention span.
- broken-kebab 2mo ago
  >Nobody's "reading the internet" anymore Even as hyperbole it's too extreme.
  - sillyfluke 2mo ago
    Really? I find phone book reading to be a very primitive experience without researching SOTA book apps. Is there an app that turns ebooks into a single infinite scroll longform article with intuitive bookmarking and easy book purchase/discovery?
    - sebastiennight 2mo ago
      This plus a text-to-speech/audiobook feature with autoscrolling would probably do a lot for book consumption (I mean I, for one, would sign up for that waitlist)
      - larakerns 2mo ago
        We have all these features and more. In private beta now, sign up for the waiting list at: https://noveltree.ca https://noveltree.ca
      - 2mo ago
solid_fuel 2mo ago
> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. I don't think it's really about the quality, I think the difference is that with a book there's no easy next tab to switch to when a sentence or passage gets too long and loses your interest. Even if a book is poorly written, it will still require you to either fully focus for the duration - or put it down. There's no convenient "leave the tab open in the background and switch to something else for 30 seconds" for books like there is with the internet.

ghusto 2mo ago

> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. It's not all that odd to me. The barrier of entry to getting something printed and published is much, much, higher than putting something online, which effects the quality quite a bit. Obviously there are complete wastes of paper out there in terms of published books, but as a generalisation it's not odd to presume a printed book is going to be of higher quality than a webpage.

broken-kebab 2mo ago
You are describing monetization quality, not content quality. Printing has its moat, yes, which better protects it from copying, and process of consuming from interruptions, and creates payment in advance situation. Printing houses produce enormous amounts of cliche-by-cliche semi-porn "romantic novels", and various sensationalist garbage, and earn money without suffocating dependency on Google, FB and such. Good for them.

jermaustin1 2mo ago

> many books are pretty low quality. Even low-quality books have words people might not know. I often find people who don't read books (physical or eBook) have a much lower vocabulary, and they typically don't value vocabulary, which as an avid reader, I find weird, but I guess to each their own.

carljungslabtek 2mo ago
Yeah sadly let’s not kid ourselves, most people on their phone on the subway (in the USA) are watching very low quality short form video content. Or they’re reading gossip subreddits or something. If you want to really scare yourself go check out what teachers have to say about the current crop of students and their literacy rates. We should 100% ban all smart devices for people under 18. Not just in schools but entirely. Middle schoolers literally can’t spell their own names, or words like “want” and “cat”. I would have assumed some of the teachers were pearl-clutching but it’s not just a few of them saying this, it’s all of them, including my own mom who I trust a lot.

lbrito 2mo ago

>That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. That's a weird take. The internet has basically no barriers. Book publishing, with all of its many flaws, does. Anyone can technically self publish a book, but the odds that you'll find someone on the subway reading it are small. So odds are the book you see people reading on transit is on average better than an internet content.

pessimizer 2mo ago
No, the vast majority of published books are (and have always been) an insult to trees.

FranOntanaya 2mo ago

Most places where people do their weekly groceries in Spain have at least a small book section if not a bookstore by the entrance. It's a typical thing to bring over to the beach or a weekend trip that doesn't matter if it gets damaged or lost. Myself I have an e-ink reader but almost always take a paper book on the subway. It's still better quality print, not fragile in any way that matters, and I don't have to think about charge or aging electronics. I only bring the e-reader for manuals and such that change too often to be worth the paper cost, but still miss the old coding manuals with their ad-hoc page sizes, the spatial sense of where the information was in a book was part of the memory anchoring.

christkv 2mo ago

I´ve ended up switching back to paper for half of my reading. Kids prefer paper for reading to. Kindle goes with me on vacation when I don´t want to drag around 2-3 kilos of paper (Reading chunky history books at the moment).

bojan 2mo ago

I wonder if this is the reason Spain resisted the advent of far right for so long, compared to its European counterparts.

pessimizer 2mo ago
The Spanish Civil War would like to have a word with you, but maybe Franco is part of "the resistance" now.
- mejutoco 2mo ago
  Franco died in 1975. They clearly mean recently.
  - pezezin 2mo ago
    He might have died 50 years ago, but sadly his shadow is very, very long even to this day...
    - elnatro 2mo ago
      Not really. If you compare Spanish politics with UK, for example.
- bojan 2mo ago
  What an odd comment. I'd think it's obvious I referred to the current wave that started 15* years ago. * give or take some years
  - cyclopeanutopia 2mo ago
    Isn't it obvious that nothing is obvious?
    - bojan 2mo ago
      Obviously not.

sebastiennight 2mo ago

> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. You've received several answers on the "quality" side due to books being harder to create, but I'll cover two more arguments: 1. Nobody's "reading the internet" anymore, especially not on their phones. They're mindlessly scrolling short-form video, either muted or blasting them really loud with no headphones, if my experience of Spanish subway is accurate. 2. Even if all books were just printed directly from random internet pages, and there was zero difference in quality, it would be a huge step-up to go from reading one internet page at a time, to focusing on the same content for 200+ pages in a row. There is huge value in giving ourselves the longer attention span.

broken-kebab 2mo ago
>Nobody's "reading the internet" anymore Even as hyperbole it's too extreme.
- sillyfluke 2mo ago
  Really? I find phone book reading to be a very primitive experience without researching SOTA book apps. Is there an app that turns ebooks into a single infinite scroll longform article with intuitive bookmarking and easy book purchase/discovery?
  - sebastiennight 2mo ago
    This plus a text-to-speech/audiobook feature with autoscrolling would probably do a lot for book consumption (I mean I, for one, would sign up for that waitlist)
    - larakerns 2mo ago
      We have all these features and more. In private beta now, sign up for the waiting list at: https://noveltree.ca https://noveltree.ca
    - 2mo ago

solid_fuel 2mo ago

> That said, I find it odd that people assume that reading a book is always higher quality than reading the internet etc. - many books are pretty low quality. I don't think it's really about the quality, I think the difference is that with a book there's no easy next tab to switch to when a sentence or passage gets too long and loses your interest. Even if a book is poorly written, it will still require you to either fully focus for the duration - or put it down. There's no convenient "leave the tab open in the background and switch to something else for 30 seconds" for books like there is with the internet.