5 ms·

> Infinite scroll is very obviously unnecessary All the different flavors of yogurt in the grocery store are unnecessary. We only need 2.

by peder 2mo ago

dghlsakjg 2mo ago
Nobody has ever been guided down an extremist rabbit hole ending in a misogynist shooting because of yogurt. At least, not to my knowledge. There is a very real harm to allowing an engagement optimizing algorithm (which, if programmed effectively, almost always ends up a negative emotion firehose). I don't know if this is the right solution, but I don't see that an extensive yogurt selection is the same thing as whatever the fuck is going on with Facebook feeding an endless stream of corrosive bullshit to users.
- tqi 2mo ago
  Yeah there were no shootings before the internet
  - ben_w 2mo ago
    Meta claims itself to be beneficial because of all the ads it sells in support of small businesses. We had ads and small businesses before the internet, too. The question that both Meta and anyone opposed to infinite scroll has to answer is: did this change anything? Well, one thing that definitely changed everywhere in a way well-correlated with local access to smartphones, is reduced fertility, so something definitely happened, but was that something infinite scroll, or something else?
  - dghlsakjg 2mo ago
    Just because we can’t eliminate all harms doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to minimize them. Online radicalization is a documented issue. Engagement optimizing algorithms pushing extreme and polarizing content is also well documented. Even the excess screen time on algorithmic feeds is well documented as harmful in young populations even if the radical content issues are ignored. So while we did have shootings before, we did not have incels, groypers, ISIS sleepers and other weird people encouraging and glorifying them. If we can stop one at the cost of eliminating endless scrolling on Facebook, I think it’s a fair trade.
breuleux 2mo ago
I mean, unironically, yeah. If you want flavor, just mix jam in your plain yogurt.
ckosidows 2mo ago
This is a false equivalence. I don't use a product _because_ it's got an endless scroll. I use a product and then they add that "feature" without giving me an option. I would, and have, turned it off when possible. But it's not currently possible to do so on apps like Reddit. In no way is this like yogurt. If I don't like that one yogurt has trace amounts of heroin in it, I can buy a different yogurt. If I don't like that reddit has an infinite scroll, I have to miss out on conversations in communities I like. There simply aren't similar communities I've ever been able to find for certain topics. And anything similar also has an infinite scroll (Facebook, twitter, etc.). If, in your example, all yogurts had trace amounts of heroin in them, I would agree with the comparison.
- iamnothere 2mo ago
  Fortunately social media contains neither heroin nor nicotine. All clear!
  - dudefeliciano 2mo ago
    You seem incredibly sure about the health safety of a technology we've had for ~20 years and of which the daily usage has been steadily rising in that time. US kids average 5 hours/day on social media. By the way heroin use was widespread in the early 1900s, it took decades to regulate it even though the addictive and detrimental effects were very obvious to everyone. And let's not get started on nicotine. See the similarities?
    - iamnothere 2mo ago
      I wasn’t aware that there was a public health exemption to the first amendment, and I’m having trouble finding it. Can you show me where to find it?
      - dudefeliciano 2mo ago
        ony if you explain how infinite scroll is necessary for freedom of speech and of the press

> Infinite scroll is very obviously unnecessary All the different flavors of yogurt in the grocery store are unnecessary. We only need 2.

by peder 2mo ago

> Infinite scroll is very obviously unnecessary All the different flavors of yogurt in the grocery store are unnecessary. We only need 2.

dghlsakjg 2mo ago

Nobody has ever been guided down an extremist rabbit hole ending in a misogynist shooting because of yogurt. At least, not to my knowledge. There is a very real harm to allowing an engagement optimizing algorithm (which, if programmed effectively, almost always ends up a negative emotion firehose). I don't know if this is the right solution, but I don't see that an extensive yogurt selection is the same thing as whatever the fuck is going on with Facebook feeding an endless stream of corrosive bullshit to users.

tqi 2mo ago
Yeah there were no shootings before the internet
- ben_w 2mo ago
  Meta claims itself to be beneficial because of all the ads it sells in support of small businesses. We had ads and small businesses before the internet, too. The question that both Meta and anyone opposed to infinite scroll has to answer is: did this change anything? Well, one thing that definitely changed everywhere in a way well-correlated with local access to smartphones, is reduced fertility, so something definitely happened, but was that something infinite scroll, or something else?
- dghlsakjg 2mo ago
  Just because we can’t eliminate all harms doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to minimize them. Online radicalization is a documented issue. Engagement optimizing algorithms pushing extreme and polarizing content is also well documented. Even the excess screen time on algorithmic feeds is well documented as harmful in young populations even if the radical content issues are ignored. So while we did have shootings before, we did not have incels, groypers, ISIS sleepers and other weird people encouraging and glorifying them. If we can stop one at the cost of eliminating endless scrolling on Facebook, I think it’s a fair trade.

breuleux 2mo ago

I mean, unironically, yeah. If you want flavor, just mix jam in your plain yogurt.

ckosidows 2mo ago

This is a false equivalence. I don't use a product _because_ it's got an endless scroll. I use a product and then they add that "feature" without giving me an option. I would, and have, turned it off when possible. But it's not currently possible to do so on apps like Reddit. In no way is this like yogurt. If I don't like that one yogurt has trace amounts of heroin in it, I can buy a different yogurt. If I don't like that reddit has an infinite scroll, I have to miss out on conversations in communities I like. There simply aren't similar communities I've ever been able to find for certain topics. And anything similar also has an infinite scroll (Facebook, twitter, etc.). If, in your example, all yogurts had trace amounts of heroin in them, I would agree with the comparison.

iamnothere 2mo ago
Fortunately social media contains neither heroin nor nicotine. All clear!
- dudefeliciano 2mo ago
  You seem incredibly sure about the health safety of a technology we've had for ~20 years and of which the daily usage has been steadily rising in that time. US kids average 5 hours/day on social media. By the way heroin use was widespread in the early 1900s, it took decades to regulate it even though the addictive and detrimental effects were very obvious to everyone. And let's not get started on nicotine. See the similarities?
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    I wasn’t aware that there was a public health exemption to the first amendment, and I’m having trouble finding it. Can you show me where to find it?
    - dudefeliciano 2mo ago
      ony if you explain how infinite scroll is necessary for freedom of speech and of the press