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Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19
- kranke155 2mo agohopefully we will get somewhere with these studies. The lack of solid research on a disease that affects millions (likely a good percentage undiagnosed) is really tough for patients - and myself really, as I've found i likely suffer from this. Finding out about autonomic dysfunction and small fiber neuropathy as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this has been very challenging.
- zx8080 2mo agoIt's probably more profitable to treat symptoms.
- jmye 2mo ago[dead]
- jambalaya8 2mo agoHard to treat symptoms with immunological conditions. I mean, there are vitamins and supplements, but noone is gonna generally hand out economy-sized bottles of controlled substances for exhaustion, etc. These sorts of conditions are systemic, and the causes and ways of dealing with the accompanying syndromes are probably always going to be different from individual to individual (well, likely the exact physiological causes anyway).
- J0nL 2mo agoIt's true, this is why there are so many government agencies focused on healthcare. The medical field lacks a healthy profit motive. Healthcare CEOs use their fiduciary responsibilities as an excuse and say they'll get sued if they don't exploit situations. There was a SARS vaccine as far as back 2016 which could have changed everything but was ignored. Pharmaceutical execs told them they were, "waiting to see if it comes back yearly" first
- PaulKeeble 2mo agoSo far all the trials attempting to do so have failed. Its not that people aren't trying this, it just doesn't work for most of the symptoms.
- naturalmovement 2mo ago> as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this Please don't do this. It's the medical equivalent of copy/pasting shit you don't understand from Stack Overflow. Go see a doctor who has a degree and training.
- hombre_fatal 2mo agoIf there's no test for it, then what is the doctor going to do for something as nebulous as long covid?
- internet_user 2mo agoPlenty of tests. Autonomic medicine is not nebulous, more often than not what’s happening is some homeostasis failure/some peripheral nerve thing/brain damage. At the very minimum. Widespread issues all over the body without readily obvious organ damage is nearly always nerves/brain. 99% of physicians wouldn’t know what to do with specialized test results anyway, even if they’d know what/how to order in the first place. Internists don’t know how to read PET scans, radiologists don’t know anything about homeostasis. general radiology cant even read head&neck scans, you want a specialized radiologist for that. geneticists don’t have the slightest idea about how to read nerve studies, which is actually a completely separate certification, not even every neurologist has it or does them. Medicine is the game of super-specialization. And nobody wants to bother to try to piece it all together for you. Very few MDs are actually able to, in the first place. Ideally, you have a very broadly competent internist to figure out what direction to even start digging at, and then find the sub specialist who has the expertise AND interest in that area. eg NIH’s section on neuro cardiology recently closed because this one dude who was REALLY into simply was too old, couldnt find a replacement or build a bigger lab that could sustain itself and retired. At times you need a specialist trained and practicing in two different specialties: eg ENT + neuro, for example. Those can be hard to find. Neuro cardio more common especially now.
- kranke155 2mo agoThere are tests for it. SFN biopsy, tilt table, ETT.
- jph00 2mo agoWow mucosal innervation was around half in long covid patients - that's super worrying and would have nasty symptoms in practice. The findings also support the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 may cause structural nerve damage, which is perhaps the even bigger worry. :(
- RandomTisk 2mo agoWhat kind of symptoms? I have insane stomach issues since early 2021 that only this year started to largely subside.
- PaulKeeble 2mo agoAny Long Covid patient can tell you its damaged their nerves, they can feel it. Nerve pain all over and various weird zaps and shakes etc, the nervous system is clearly damaged/being damaged across the entire body.
- peab 2mo agoi noticed a thing with headlines like these: "x may cause y". Whenever it's "may" or "might", it's almost always meaningless
- Fomite 2mo agoThere has been a shift - an understandable one, and one I by and large support (absent some edge cases) - to move away from causal language for observational studies.
- shiggydump 2mo agoOnly the Sith deal in absolutes.
- naturalmovement 2mo ago[flagged]
- jambalaya8 2mo agoProblem with those conditions and long COVID and CFS are generally similar: No really reliable guaranteed test for most of them, just a series of symptomatic diagnoses and years of ruling out conditions. No offense, but while some people might be full of crap, you sound really insensitive.
- naturalmovement 2mo agoIf you suppose it's all malarkey and conjecture, what is the problem? When your doctor says that you're wrong, do you accept his advice or tell him he should be more like Dale Carnegie?
- jambalaya8 2mo agoMost logical, rational adults would seek a second opinion, at least in places where those are available; they usually are. Interesting that I said 'some people' and you generalised. FWIW, if my doctor were unfriendly enough, though, I might do that also.
- flextheruler 2mo ago8 people as the entire control group... yeah I'd say "may" is the operative word in the title. My takeaway from long covid is that it's probably as severe as the much more deadly pandemic of the Spanish Flu. Considering there's now a newfound interest in "long flu", I think a spotlight has now been placed on the impact of severe respiratory illness. Whether that illness be covid or one of the any other respiratory illnesses.
- jambalaya8 2mo agoYeah, twelve patients and eight in the control group isn't really a study.
- thenerdhead 2mo agois a small proof of concept study not a study anymore? gastric biopsies aren’t exactly easy to obtain at scale.
- Fomite 2mo agoThey are studies, and frankly, without something like this, doing things like the appropriate power calculations and risk assessments for larger studies would be hard to do.
- jambalaya8 2mo agoI would consider things like these the equivalent of a test to see if a study is viable, not a study. Sort of like, okay, if I have a hundred water balloons and I dropped fifty of those water balloons off the top of my house growing up, and fifty off the top of the Empire State building, would the latter always be that much worse? Just a few off the first and I can guess the outcome, and let's call that a control group, but the second, who knows... sure you might get lucky and knock one or two people out (or get a couple of good people showing results or seeming connections you want in a study) but you probably need more than a few to prove it isn't just a fluke. ;) Okay, messing around with the water balloons. Not with the study thing.
- remarkEon 2mo agoIs there a test for long covid?
- thenerdhead 2mo agonot quite. A grab bag of biomarkers being validated in research labs across the USA though
- PaulKeeble 2mo agoNothing you can order from your doctor yet but plenty of abnormal findings in almost every aspect of the body. As far as I know none of the findings yet is found in every sufferer, a combination can often get to ~95% but its very heterogenous and that has made it very hard to come up with a single test.
- internet_user 2mo agoWouldn’t this be completely expected though? A sizable percentage of autoimmune cases of well accepted autoimmune diseases (rheumatoid arthritis, celiac, etc etc etc ) are completely seronegative despite glaringly obvious clinical signs: eg peeing skin, deformed joints etc etc - all blood work perfectly normal. Happens all the time. Why would we expect anything different here?
- nradov 2mo agoThere's no such thing as "long COVID" specifically. Any serious viral infection has the potential to cause sequalae in susceptible patients for reasons that are still not well understood. Some of those are detectible in lab tests to an extent but there's no single clear diagnostic test.
- thenerdhead 2mo agothey are pretty well understood now with growing evidence of viral persistence in the gut and immune cells, and immune dysfunction causing autoantibodies. they are also distinct from other conditions like ME/CFS or other sequelae although they may share overlapping symptoms. A lot of research is going into different PAIS post acute infection syndromes
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- sehw 2mo ago[dead]
- ltbarcly3 2mo ago[flagged]
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- tsoukase 2mo agoFirstly the term 'long' is not good. Better is post-COVID syndrom, because the virus has been eliminated and not staying for long but the situation remains post infection. Secondly, the majority of burden is caused by CNS/brain dysfunction, especially a form of neurotransmitter depletion, and not due to peripheral autonomous imbalance. And the former is a much more difficult therapeutic target: in my experience incurable for ever but also quite more rare that it is shown in the media.