5 ms·

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke a

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave-caused-more-than-2700-heat-related-deaths/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-3700-excess-deaths/a-77823303 https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

pjerem 2mo ago
Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is when you are living in an apartment and the condominium council refuses AC installation for esthetical reasons, but it's something that can change (either by the vote of co-owners, or by law if needed). And if you are renting, you are stuck until the legislation changes and forces owners to provide summer comfort the same way they must provide heating in winter.
- weberer 2mo ago
  >It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.
  - pjerem 2mo ago
    That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort. Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.
    - BeetleB 2mo ago
      > You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.
      - mrguyorama 2mo ago
        >you are not blocked because you're a renter. You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want. My previous US apartment banned window mount air conditioners. I was stuck with a "mobile" AC unit that could barely handle a little humidity. Even someone in a "Historic" property in Europe that isn't allowed to touch anything would have that option as well.
        BeetleB 2mo ago
        > You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want. In my state, they cannot. I legally have the right to install a window AC unit as long as I'm not doing any damage or violating a safety guideline.
  - distances 2mo ago
    Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so. German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though? I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.
wolvoleo 2mo ago
The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the largest contributors no less). But if you move here and care about it just pick a place that has it or where you can install it. It's available if you want it. It's not a big thing that should be influencing any decision to move. It's just being blown up and politicised because of the current heatwave. Aircon is not prohibited nor frowned upon here, it's just that we didn't really need it so much before and people are still reluctant to invest in it. Especially in the more northern countries it's not really needed anyway, during a heatwave yes but that's a couple weeks a year. Also, it's not a complete solution. Most of us here live outdoor much more, we don't drive cars much so we need to deal with the heat outside anyway. We also have nice community options like climate shelters here.
- dataflow 2mo ago
  ...what are you talking about? This was from my personal experience being in Europe many times, including in the middle of this very last heat wave. This one thing made it miserable. I couldn't even sleep and had to move to other buildings more than once. On more than one occasion locals themselves told me there were legal reasons certain buildings couldn't have A/C, despite them wanting to install it. And it from people there that I heard - several times - about the deaths when I complained about the lack of A/C, not from right-wing US media! I had no idea Republicans were even talking about this until your comment! I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.
  - ecshafer 2mo ago
    Republicans aren't talking about it, people are making fun of Europe on X for their lack of AC, and how regulations are whats keeping them from having AC. This is coming from right wing Europeans. I think the parent is tilting at windmills.
gf000 2mo ago
That's pretty regional, countries that historically had warmer summers have them available on basically every house. Where the heatwave is only recent, there are some bureaucratic issues (like historic buildings should not get "defaced" by the external unit and whatnot), but I think this is way too exaggerated when talking about the whole of the EU.

pjerem 2mo ago

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is when you are living in an apartment and the condominium council refuses AC installation for esthetical reasons, but it's something that can change (either by the vote of co-owners, or by law if needed). And if you are renting, you are stuck until the legislation changes and forces owners to provide summer comfort the same way they must provide heating in winter.

weberer 2mo ago
>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.
- pjerem 2mo ago
  That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort. Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.
  - BeetleB 2mo ago
    > You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.
    - mrguyorama 2mo ago
      >you are not blocked because you're a renter. You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want. My previous US apartment banned window mount air conditioners. I was stuck with a "mobile" AC unit that could barely handle a little humidity. Even someone in a "Historic" property in Europe that isn't allowed to touch anything would have that option as well.
      - BeetleB 2mo ago
        > You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want. In my state, they cannot. I legally have the right to install a window AC unit as long as I'm not doing any damage or violating a safety guideline.
- distances 2mo ago
  Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so. German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though? I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.

wolvoleo 2mo ago

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the largest contributors no less). But if you move here and care about it just pick a place that has it or where you can install it. It's available if you want it. It's not a big thing that should be influencing any decision to move. It's just being blown up and politicised because of the current heatwave. Aircon is not prohibited nor frowned upon here, it's just that we didn't really need it so much before and people are still reluctant to invest in it. Especially in the more northern countries it's not really needed anyway, during a heatwave yes but that's a couple weeks a year. Also, it's not a complete solution. Most of us here live outdoor much more, we don't drive cars much so we need to deal with the heat outside anyway. We also have nice community options like climate shelters here.

dataflow 2mo ago
...what are you talking about? This was from my personal experience being in Europe many times, including in the middle of this very last heat wave. This one thing made it miserable. I couldn't even sleep and had to move to other buildings more than once. On more than one occasion locals themselves told me there were legal reasons certain buildings couldn't have A/C, despite them wanting to install it. And it from people there that I heard - several times - about the deaths when I complained about the lack of A/C, not from right-wing US media! I had no idea Republicans were even talking about this until your comment! I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.
- ecshafer 2mo ago
  Republicans aren't talking about it, people are making fun of Europe on X for their lack of AC, and how regulations are whats keeping them from having AC. This is coming from right wing Europeans. I think the parent is tilting at windmills.

gf000 2mo ago

That's pretty regional, countries that historically had warmer summers have them available on basically every house. Where the heatwave is only recent, there are some bureaucratic issues (like historic buildings should not get "defaced" by the external unit and whatnot), but I think this is way too exaggerated when talking about the whole of the EU.