6 ms·

I don’t know anything about Germany’s postal service. In the US, what the parent comment was getting it, is why are we even talking about this in the first pla

I don’t know anything about Germany’s postal service. In the US, what the parent comment was getting it, is why are we even talking about this in the first place? What problem is privatization trying to solve? As an American, I have zero complaints about our postal service or how much we pay for it. Apart from the fact that I wish there were more branch offices and a few more workers at most locations. I don’t think privatization will solve either of those. Why do we need to reform something that already works?

msandford 3mo ago
My problem rate with Fedex or UPS is maybe 0.1% of packages. I can't remember the last time I had a delivery issue. Just this week I had a package that was supposed to be delivered by Monday that lost tracking and didn't show up until Wednesday. It might be "basically fine and good enough" but it's definitely not "amazing and completely beyond reproach" at least in my opinion.
- thayne 3mo ago
  Sure, it's not perfect, but I'm doubtful privatizing it would make it any better. And on the list of things I want fixed in the US, it is far from the top.
- Swizec 3mo ago
  > Just this week I had a package that was supposed to be delivered by Monday that lost tracking and didn't show up until Wednesday. This is the sort of problem you solve with more funding not privatization. Here’s how these privatizations work: 1. Cut funding for public service 2. Service becomes bad 3. Cut more funding because service is bad and unused 4. Service becomes worse 5. Privatize 6. Strip the service for parts, a bunch of people get rich, classic PE stuff but worse 7. Start extracting rents, you have a nice monopoly 8. Public has no or worse service for higher cost
  - msandford 3mo ago
    1. They do a really bad job because you can't get fired 2. My package is delivered late yet again 3. I don't bother calling because the other 8 times I did I wasted an hour, nobody did anything (because nobody can get fired) and I didn't get any money back 4. Look how great we're doing! Complaints are down 5. Give us more funding because we're doing such a good job This is just as likely of a spiral if we keep it publicly owned. It's also not good. How do you get good outcomes with.no accountability?
    - 8note 3mo ago
      accountability is contacting your member of congress, no? and getting them to be properly funded for providing an essential service rather than setting your quality of service by how profitable your area is public systems have accountability through democratic means. make sure you vote for people that care about the postal service working well, rather than focusing on trans kids, and youll have a working post office
- deathanatos 3mo ago
  > My problem rate with Fedex or UPS is maybe 0.1% of packages. I can't remember the last time I had a delivery issue. Well… I had a package being delivered, and it had missed its estimated arrival; it ended with me have a long discussion w/ their support that I'm sure was fed to /dev/null. FedEx was the carrier, it turned out, and they claimed they had attempted delivery. Problem was, they required a signature. I live in an apartment, & we have a dedicated package room. But FedEx's stance is that they can't deliver to the secure package room: they require a signature. But at my apartment, they come to the door with the street address on it. Weirdly, that is not the door with the buzzer — that's at a separate, more remote door. The delivery person is not going to take the time to find that door, assuming their corporate overlord's maximum dwell time even permits them to. So they can't buzz me. So they sticker an utterly arbitrary window on the building, and leave. The landlord clears the window. I am never notified. Somewhere this kicks around in their system until I get a call from an unknown number of "hey your package is undeliverable." But the "guaranteed" delivery date was overshot, of course. I was, of course, home the entire time. These are what spawn the "missed delivery" memes … https://xkcd.com/921/ https://xkcd.com/921/ This is a systemic problem, not just a "one time" issue: every package shipped via FedEx that requires a signature to me is undeliverable. The shipper (my bank, in this case) was also less-than-helpful: they apparently have no idea who they ship with, let alone what tracking number they used. Worse, they refused to refund me the extra I had paid to expedite the shipment (which, as you can imagine from the above, did not arrive on time; worse, the expiditing fee was extortionary…) … and this is modern capitalism these days. A fractal of bad service where the customer ends up having to do 90% of the support work.
  - fn-mote 3mo ago
    Special case pain in your rear. Sorry that happened. FYI, I am quite sure that you can provide special delivery instructions for your address to FedEx. You should try to figure out how to do that. Dealing with your bank, though… good luck with that when they don’t care.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
- fn-mote 3mo ago
  All shopping companies lose packages, damage packages, and fail to deliver on time as promised. The question is just about the rate it happens and the ease with which you can get restitution. Remember when Amazon’s delivery dates were commitments instead of estimates? That was interesting for me to think about in this context.
- queenkjuul 3mo ago
  I spent many years shipping out online orders every day via UPS, Fedex, and USPS. USPS was not meaningfully worse in aggregate, UPS and FedEx still fucked up plenty
Eridrus 3mo ago
I think the problem being solved here is largely one of waste. USPS hides 9bn of unfunded pension obligations every year and underserves urban areas to subsidize rural areas. Mail volume is also generally falling as everything moves to email, so it is getting both less profitable and less critical. The US is a rich country, we can afford to waste a lot of money and not notice, and of course one person's waste is another person's easier job or subsidized service, but given the ongoing decline in the importance of mail (vs package) delivery, it's not clear that this is a particularly important utility for the government to maintain any more.
- 8note 3mo ago
  it would be interesting to see the navy make a profit and have to pay for its own pensions for veterans rather than hiding it in the defense budget
  - Eridrus 3mo ago
    I am not super interested in a pirate navy, thanks.
  - eru 2mo ago
    Presumably the navy would sell military services to the government in that case?
- 7bees 3mo ago
  I'm not aware of any organization that has the same requirements to fund its future pension obligations that the USPS has. That requirement was created by Congress as part of a sustained campaign to damage the USPS. It seems like your argument is actually that Congress should rescind that requirement, so that USPS can afford to better service urban customers while continuing to be a critical lifeline to rural areas.
  - eru 3mo ago
    Well, if postal services were provided by normal private companies, then there would be none (or less) of that kind of political interference you are complaining about here.
treis 3mo ago
The USPS is about $100 billion short in funds for retiree healthcare. Operationally they're slated to run out of cash shortly and that's going to get worse as they have to directly fund more and more retiree health care.
- danaris 3mo ago
  ...specifically because they were forced to pre-fund pensions to an absurd degree by a Republican Congress. And the sole purpose of this was to damage the USPS so that it looked like it was doing much worse than it really is, so that they could push for privatizing it.
  - treis 3mo ago
    They barely made any of those payments and the rule was rescinded several years ago. The $100 billion shortfall is because they didn't make those payments and the ongoing cash flow issues are continued degredation of the USPS economic reality

msandford 3mo ago

My problem rate with Fedex or UPS is maybe 0.1% of packages. I can't remember the last time I had a delivery issue. Just this week I had a package that was supposed to be delivered by Monday that lost tracking and didn't show up until Wednesday. It might be "basically fine and good enough" but it's definitely not "amazing and completely beyond reproach" at least in my opinion.

thayne 3mo ago
Sure, it's not perfect, but I'm doubtful privatizing it would make it any better. And on the list of things I want fixed in the US, it is far from the top.
Swizec 3mo ago
> Just this week I had a package that was supposed to be delivered by Monday that lost tracking and didn't show up until Wednesday. This is the sort of problem you solve with more funding not privatization. Here’s how these privatizations work: 1. Cut funding for public service 2. Service becomes bad 3. Cut more funding because service is bad and unused 4. Service becomes worse 5. Privatize 6. Strip the service for parts, a bunch of people get rich, classic PE stuff but worse 7. Start extracting rents, you have a nice monopoly 8. Public has no or worse service for higher cost
- msandford 3mo ago
  1. They do a really bad job because you can't get fired 2. My package is delivered late yet again 3. I don't bother calling because the other 8 times I did I wasted an hour, nobody did anything (because nobody can get fired) and I didn't get any money back 4. Look how great we're doing! Complaints are down 5. Give us more funding because we're doing such a good job This is just as likely of a spiral if we keep it publicly owned. It's also not good. How do you get good outcomes with.no accountability?
  - 8note 3mo ago
    accountability is contacting your member of congress, no? and getting them to be properly funded for providing an essential service rather than setting your quality of service by how profitable your area is public systems have accountability through democratic means. make sure you vote for people that care about the postal service working well, rather than focusing on trans kids, and youll have a working post office
deathanatos 3mo ago
> My problem rate with Fedex or UPS is maybe 0.1% of packages. I can't remember the last time I had a delivery issue. Well… I had a package being delivered, and it had missed its estimated arrival; it ended with me have a long discussion w/ their support that I'm sure was fed to /dev/null. FedEx was the carrier, it turned out, and they claimed they had attempted delivery. Problem was, they required a signature. I live in an apartment, & we have a dedicated package room. But FedEx's stance is that they can't deliver to the secure package room: they require a signature. But at my apartment, they come to the door with the street address on it. Weirdly, that is not the door with the buzzer — that's at a separate, more remote door. The delivery person is not going to take the time to find that door, assuming their corporate overlord's maximum dwell time even permits them to. So they can't buzz me. So they sticker an utterly arbitrary window on the building, and leave. The landlord clears the window. I am never notified. Somewhere this kicks around in their system until I get a call from an unknown number of "hey your package is undeliverable." But the "guaranteed" delivery date was overshot, of course. I was, of course, home the entire time. These are what spawn the "missed delivery" memes … https://xkcd.com/921/ https://xkcd.com/921/ This is a systemic problem, not just a "one time" issue: every package shipped via FedEx that requires a signature to me is undeliverable. The shipper (my bank, in this case) was also less-than-helpful: they apparently have no idea who they ship with, let alone what tracking number they used. Worse, they refused to refund me the extra I had paid to expedite the shipment (which, as you can imagine from the above, did not arrive on time; worse, the expiditing fee was extortionary…) … and this is modern capitalism these days. A fractal of bad service where the customer ends up having to do 90% of the support work.
- fn-mote 3mo ago
  Special case pain in your rear. Sorry that happened. FYI, I am quite sure that you can provide special delivery instructions for your address to FedEx. You should try to figure out how to do that. Dealing with your bank, though… good luck with that when they don’t care.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
fn-mote 3mo ago
All shopping companies lose packages, damage packages, and fail to deliver on time as promised. The question is just about the rate it happens and the ease with which you can get restitution. Remember when Amazon’s delivery dates were commitments instead of estimates? That was interesting for me to think about in this context.
queenkjuul 3mo ago
I spent many years shipping out online orders every day via UPS, Fedex, and USPS. USPS was not meaningfully worse in aggregate, UPS and FedEx still fucked up plenty

Eridrus 3mo ago

I think the problem being solved here is largely one of waste. USPS hides 9bn of unfunded pension obligations every year and underserves urban areas to subsidize rural areas. Mail volume is also generally falling as everything moves to email, so it is getting both less profitable and less critical. The US is a rich country, we can afford to waste a lot of money and not notice, and of course one person's waste is another person's easier job or subsidized service, but given the ongoing decline in the importance of mail (vs package) delivery, it's not clear that this is a particularly important utility for the government to maintain any more.

8note 3mo ago
it would be interesting to see the navy make a profit and have to pay for its own pensions for veterans rather than hiding it in the defense budget
- Eridrus 3mo ago
  I am not super interested in a pirate navy, thanks.
- eru 2mo ago
  Presumably the navy would sell military services to the government in that case?
7bees 3mo ago
I'm not aware of any organization that has the same requirements to fund its future pension obligations that the USPS has. That requirement was created by Congress as part of a sustained campaign to damage the USPS. It seems like your argument is actually that Congress should rescind that requirement, so that USPS can afford to better service urban customers while continuing to be a critical lifeline to rural areas.
- eru 3mo ago
  Well, if postal services were provided by normal private companies, then there would be none (or less) of that kind of political interference you are complaining about here.

treis 3mo ago

The USPS is about $100 billion short in funds for retiree healthcare. Operationally they're slated to run out of cash shortly and that's going to get worse as they have to directly fund more and more retiree health care.

danaris 3mo ago
...specifically because they were forced to pre-fund pensions to an absurd degree by a Republican Congress. And the sole purpose of this was to damage the USPS so that it looked like it was doing much worse than it really is, so that they could push for privatizing it.
- treis 3mo ago
  They barely made any of those payments and the rule was rescinded several years ago. The $100 billion shortfall is because they didn't make those payments and the ongoing cash flow issues are continued degredation of the USPS economic reality