6 ms·

> We need to resist this! I agree. What do you suggest? How can we contribute to the resistance?

by avra 3mo ago

Arnt 3mo ago
This started with phishing, poor people being tricked to install apps that then drained their bank accounts. So to resist, maybe focus on that evil? Better international cooperation, better prosecution?
- mschuster91 3mo ago
  We can't even get India and Turkey sanctioned for evading the anti-Russian sanctions... good luck holding them accountable for the scam callcenters.
- stymaar 3mo ago
  > This started with phishing It didn't. Phishing is just a pretext. Google didn't care about Phishing for the first 20 years of Android. Why do they now? Because it serves as argument to close their platform a little more (which is a trend that has been going on for years).
  - frollogaston 3mo ago
    I do think it's about Google trying to squeeze profits out of Android, but is there more direct evidence of this? Cause I always have to wonder if it's something else like KYC.
    - Arnt 3mo ago
      Of course Google generally tries to squeeze profits out of… whatever it does, but eh, by closing something? Google is the company that makes a million in profit from the openness of the web in the time it takes me to write this paragraph, why would that company think that closing something improves its competitive stance?
      - frollogaston 3mo ago
        By imposing Google Play, rather than letting people use Android without any of Google's ecosystem. About Google squeezing profits out of everything, yes but that's a kinda new thing, mostly starting 2023. They did their first mass layoffs ever, then started cutting costs and milking products more. I'm not saying they were better before or something, it's just that it was growth time before. That was also the same time they started talking about locking down Android, and even WEI.
  - Arnt 3mo ago
    I think they care now because of pressure from the governments of the countries involved. And perhaps because ten and twenty years ago, the sums stolen were small. Now they're in the billions.
    - LtWorf 3mo ago
      How do you explain that all the scammers I've entertained used apps that are already on the store?
      - Arnt 3mo ago
        I think there's a misunderstanding here. The attack in question doesn't use apps on the store, or even any attempt to get them on the store. There are also other attacks, but the one that prompted this change uses social engineering to get people to tap the build number seven times, sideload something and get a keylogger that then picked up their banking details and used them. Several governments raised the issue, Google acted. (The actions are to slow down the tap-seven-times process, so it becomes harder for the scammers to keep their victims fooled until the keylogger is installed, and also to tweak the timings, so the scammers can't outrun the app-banning process.) If you haven't had your bank account drained, the scammers you met were different ones. (And I'm sorry that you've been scammed.)
        LtWorf 3mo ago
        But it is suspicious they want to defend vs attacks that don't happen while doing absolutely nothing to stop the attacks that do happen. Seems like security isn't a goal here? (I didn't get scammed, I sometimes am curious on what the scam is so i lead them on a bit)
        Arnt 3mo ago
        Are you in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore or Thailand? Those were the four worst-affected countries IIRC. Although I seen to remember Ecuador or Bolivia as well? (They do something about other scams too. There was another thing they published recently, I didn't pay attention since no side effect of that concerned me, something to do with caller ID.)
- iririririr 3mo ago
  or how about don't allow government and banks and telcos to use abusive apps to provide essential services? those people fall for this because for everything poor people do, they need an app that is provided by sleazy vendors and that require tons of permission, and face scan and what not. they were primed so those business could save in operating costs. that's the problem. won't solve it with slightly less sleazy vendors.
- LtWorf 3mo ago
  All scams attempt I received from "hot asian ladies" involved putting my savings in apps that are already on the google app store. The scam apps are already in there. Please stop repeating google's propaganda.
linuxhansl 3mo ago
Not much one can do I fear... Install f-droid and all kinds of 3rd part apps now. Install GrapheneOS. (I'm guilty of not having that done that,yet :( ) Sign the petition (https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/).
- black_puppydog 3mo ago
  Wow, the link to the petition is buried halfway down the page. How is this not part of the first visible content?
  - lta 3mo ago
    Fwiw it's also linked in the article, so it's not exactly a surprise :)
devsda 3mo ago
Raise it at whatever level we can. I've seen more outrage on HN posts about license changes than those related to this. I mean we are in the midst of one of the biggest rug pull of our lifetime and the response was not even remotely proportional. I wish it was a atleast a fraction of what it was during the SOPA act. Not even businesses that could be hurt by entrenching Google more in the mobile space are acknowledging the issue. That makes me think may be all the outrage at the SOPA time was probably "promoted" because it aligned with their commercial interests or may be Google is all too powerful and too deeply entrenched that nobody wants to upset them.
microtonal 3mo ago
If you are in the EU, send a message to the DMA Team. Be polite, explain how Google is using its oligopoly power to shut out competing app stores and applications that can be installed outside the Play Store. Explain how it affects you. An app becoming unavailable through remote attestation? New recaptcha? Document every case and send an e-mail to the DMA team.
geocar 3mo ago
Stop using Android.
- lta 3mo ago
  We don't have a lot of choices right now, especially regarding banking apps :'(
  - Micrococonut 3mo ago
    Your bank doesn't have a website?
- palata 3mo ago
  GrapheneOS is good.
rahidz 3mo ago
I'm sure there's plenty of Google employees on here, some quite high up. Push back against these types of decisions internally. Rally your coworkers against them. And if you're brave enough, talk to a journalist, or pull a mini-Snowden. Lord knows the company has secrets. I bet there's at least one email chain from some exec bragging about how this policy will squash Revanced, ad-blockers, etc.
- murderfs 3mo ago
  I guarantee you that there are zero email chains from execs bragging about a policy that'll block the dozens of users running Revanced.
fossman 3mo ago
Opt out of the duopoly by getting a freedom Linux phone like FLX1s from FuriLabs, or the Mecha Comet with cellular modem. Or if you're technical, you can install postmarketOS on a Fairphone 5 or OnePlus 6. Sendero Linux sells refurbished ones with pmOS preloaded.

> We need to resist this! I agree. What do you suggest? How can we contribute to the resistance?

by avra 3mo ago

> We need to resist this! I agree. What do you suggest? How can we contribute to the resistance?

Arnt 3mo ago

This started with phishing, poor people being tricked to install apps that then drained their bank accounts. So to resist, maybe focus on that evil? Better international cooperation, better prosecution?

mschuster91 3mo ago
We can't even get India and Turkey sanctioned for evading the anti-Russian sanctions... good luck holding them accountable for the scam callcenters.
stymaar 3mo ago
> This started with phishing It didn't. Phishing is just a pretext. Google didn't care about Phishing for the first 20 years of Android. Why do they now? Because it serves as argument to close their platform a little more (which is a trend that has been going on for years).
- frollogaston 3mo ago
  I do think it's about Google trying to squeeze profits out of Android, but is there more direct evidence of this? Cause I always have to wonder if it's something else like KYC.
  - Arnt 3mo ago
    Of course Google generally tries to squeeze profits out of… whatever it does, but eh, by closing something? Google is the company that makes a million in profit from the openness of the web in the time it takes me to write this paragraph, why would that company think that closing something improves its competitive stance?
    - frollogaston 3mo ago
      By imposing Google Play, rather than letting people use Android without any of Google's ecosystem. About Google squeezing profits out of everything, yes but that's a kinda new thing, mostly starting 2023. They did their first mass layoffs ever, then started cutting costs and milking products more. I'm not saying they were better before or something, it's just that it was growth time before. That was also the same time they started talking about locking down Android, and even WEI.
- Arnt 3mo ago
  I think they care now because of pressure from the governments of the countries involved. And perhaps because ten and twenty years ago, the sums stolen were small. Now they're in the billions.
  - LtWorf 3mo ago
    How do you explain that all the scammers I've entertained used apps that are already on the store?
    - Arnt 3mo ago
      I think there's a misunderstanding here. The attack in question doesn't use apps on the store, or even any attempt to get them on the store. There are also other attacks, but the one that prompted this change uses social engineering to get people to tap the build number seven times, sideload something and get a keylogger that then picked up their banking details and used them. Several governments raised the issue, Google acted. (The actions are to slow down the tap-seven-times process, so it becomes harder for the scammers to keep their victims fooled until the keylogger is installed, and also to tweak the timings, so the scammers can't outrun the app-banning process.) If you haven't had your bank account drained, the scammers you met were different ones. (And I'm sorry that you've been scammed.)
      - LtWorf 3mo ago
        But it is suspicious they want to defend vs attacks that don't happen while doing absolutely nothing to stop the attacks that do happen. Seems like security isn't a goal here? (I didn't get scammed, I sometimes am curious on what the scam is so i lead them on a bit)
        Arnt 3mo ago
        Are you in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore or Thailand? Those were the four worst-affected countries IIRC. Although I seen to remember Ecuador or Bolivia as well? (They do something about other scams too. There was another thing they published recently, I didn't pay attention since no side effect of that concerned me, something to do with caller ID.)
iririririr 3mo ago
or how about don't allow government and banks and telcos to use abusive apps to provide essential services? those people fall for this because for everything poor people do, they need an app that is provided by sleazy vendors and that require tons of permission, and face scan and what not. they were primed so those business could save in operating costs. that's the problem. won't solve it with slightly less sleazy vendors.
LtWorf 3mo ago
All scams attempt I received from "hot asian ladies" involved putting my savings in apps that are already on the google app store. The scam apps are already in there. Please stop repeating google's propaganda.

linuxhansl 3mo ago

Not much one can do I fear... Install f-droid and all kinds of 3rd part apps now. Install GrapheneOS. (I'm guilty of not having that done that,yet :( ) Sign the petition (https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/).

black_puppydog 3mo ago
Wow, the link to the petition is buried halfway down the page. How is this not part of the first visible content?
- lta 3mo ago
  Fwiw it's also linked in the article, so it's not exactly a surprise :)

devsda 3mo ago

Raise it at whatever level we can. I've seen more outrage on HN posts about license changes than those related to this. I mean we are in the midst of one of the biggest rug pull of our lifetime and the response was not even remotely proportional. I wish it was a atleast a fraction of what it was during the SOPA act. Not even businesses that could be hurt by entrenching Google more in the mobile space are acknowledging the issue. That makes me think may be all the outrage at the SOPA time was probably "promoted" because it aligned with their commercial interests or may be Google is all too powerful and too deeply entrenched that nobody wants to upset them.

microtonal 3mo ago

If you are in the EU, send a message to the DMA Team. Be polite, explain how Google is using its oligopoly power to shut out competing app stores and applications that can be installed outside the Play Store. Explain how it affects you. An app becoming unavailable through remote attestation? New recaptcha? Document every case and send an e-mail to the DMA team.

geocar 3mo ago

Stop using Android.

lta 3mo ago
We don't have a lot of choices right now, especially regarding banking apps :'(
- Micrococonut 3mo ago
  Your bank doesn't have a website?
palata 3mo ago
GrapheneOS is good.

rahidz 3mo ago

I'm sure there's plenty of Google employees on here, some quite high up. Push back against these types of decisions internally. Rally your coworkers against them. And if you're brave enough, talk to a journalist, or pull a mini-Snowden. Lord knows the company has secrets. I bet there's at least one email chain from some exec bragging about how this policy will squash Revanced, ad-blockers, etc.

murderfs 3mo ago
I guarantee you that there are zero email chains from execs bragging about a policy that'll block the dozens of users running Revanced.

fossman 3mo ago

Opt out of the duopoly by getting a freedom Linux phone like FLX1s from FuriLabs, or the Mecha Comet with cellular modem. Or if you're technical, you can install postmarketOS on a Fairphone 5 or OnePlus 6. Sendero Linux sells refurbished ones with pmOS preloaded.