6 ms·

A friend and I were talking about this. What would you pay for it? When iTunes + came out, you had 2 options, you could buy a song for $0.99 or you could b

A friend and I were talking about this. What would you pay for it? When iTunes + came out, you had 2 options, you could buy a song for $0.99 or you could be the plus version for more, I don't remember but it was like $1.35 or something. Plus had a higher bit rate and it wasn't encrypted. Suppose you could buy a movie for $12.00, how much would you pay for the forever version? $30?

jerf 3mo ago
I feel like you're kind of making this more complicated than it actually is, either because you're overcomplicating it or because you're trying to tee up some rhetorical point, but the answer to your question is really quite simple and objective: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie&rh=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A2650304011%257C2650305011%257C6259461011%257C9397930011&dc&ds=v1%3AdwgsNDE3qfgq6s5PL%2FpAO7h2O02yNqZR%2Be4LEZ%2F6C8U https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie&rh=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A... You don't need to ask a hypothetical, the market has an answer. To the extent your reply is "but that's not exactly what my question is", my point is that the market is already pricing all sorts of situations and the market would have no problem pricing just one more possibility into the already complicated market. Including "piracy", and people like me who are treating the vast majority of DVDs and BluRays as just a delivery mechanism for streams rather than "discs".
nekusar 3mo ago
Right now, I won't pay a fucking cent. I'll pirate it off of Usenet or Torrents. I get a strictly better experience if I pirate. Whereas I'm treated like a criminal and sold a much worse experience if I pay. So, fuck paying. I'm not going to pay for abuse.
- anonymars 3mo ago
  Related point: try legally playing 4k content* on your PC * obviously I mean movies/TV/etc. and the like where you have to pay money (as in the article)
dfxm12 3mo ago
Terminator 2 is currently $8 for a bluray on amazon. $10 for a DVD. This is reasonably a forever version.
- dingaling 3mo ago
  DVD perhaps yes, until the disc degrades. BluRay no, because your player's keys can be revoked when you pop in a new disc.
  - dfxm12 3mo ago
    Ok, how long do you have to rip & copy the content as you desire? It is still reasonably a forever version. Before you bring up laws around keys, first consider that jaywalking in front of your house is illegal too. Again, it is reasonably a forever version.
    - lstodd 3mo ago
      Why even bother with all those hoops. Just download.
      - dfxm12 3mo ago
        Oh, I was adding a pertinent point of discussion in a discussion board. It is fun. I suggest you try it.
        nekusar 3mo ago
        Snarky shit aside... Why should I pay to be treated as a criminal, when pirating is better in every way and costs nothing? There is no option of "Pay for digital copy of show that permits format/time shifting and backup for as long as I want, with no DRM". Like GOG. Doesn't exist in the pay realm.
        dfxm12 3mo ago
        It seems like you're just adding more and more qualifiers until you can finally justify piracy to yourself. You can reasonably do what you want if you buy the disc. There's a good chance that's how the people you're downloading from did it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
madduci 3mo ago
If I buy a DVD, it costs a fixed price. Why should it be variable, if we talk about digital media? Storage and content streaming is cheaper than embracing a whole logistic (producing DVDs/BlueRays, packaging, shipping). But here we are again: if you buy something digital, you just pay for a "usage license", you don't own anything at all. After all these years or decades, I am still surprised that people expect to own digital content, forever
- basisword 3mo ago
  With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it. If you buy a DVD and lose it you can't go back for another free copy. There's definitely an issue that the original license should allow you to always download and backup your copy DRM free so you will always have access but most people aren't going to do that. I bought lots of music/video content from iTunes over the years and rarely back it up. The fact I can just stream it/redownload it from them is very useful but it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time.
  - triceratops 3mo ago
    > With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it. Not necessarily. What if the store didn't have to do that?
  - onion2k 3mo ago
    it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time That's fair so long as it was made clear at the time of purchase that you aren't buying the song, and that you're only renting it for a while. If they didn't put a clear explanation that you might lose access on the page when you clicked buy, and not buried deep in a 50 page EULA, then it is entirely reasonable to assume that Apple can afford to keep a 5MB file available for streaming forever, or until Apple closes down its streaming services.
  - thesuitonym 3mo ago
lstodd 3mo ago
I would pay zero. I would just use torrents.
ksec 3mo ago
On a similar scale, if I am paying 35% more for the plus on music, I expect the same for movies around $15 or up to $18.
Netcob 3mo ago
Depends on what those $12 "buy" me. In Sony's case, "buying" meant "renting until Sony's license expires", which they could have displayed on the product page. I very rarely re-watch movies within a few months. So if I buy one, I want to know that I can watch it again in one, 10 or 30 years (if the format can still be played). Which is not guaranteed even with blu-rays mostly thanks to DRM. But what I'd be buying is not having to think about any deadlines. If I'm okay with a deadline, I might as well rent the movie for a weekend, in which case I expect it to be less than $12.
- burnte 3mo ago
  My problem is that they told me *I* was buying a license. I didn't know I was actually buying a sublicense that was dependent upon Sony's. I didn't buy any of the show, but that's the core here. Sony lied.
robinsonb5 3mo ago
I would pay what I used to pay for DVDs.
breezeTrowel 3mo ago
You'd pay for it what you paid for it. Did the "Buy" button specify that you were buying the movie or did it say you were simply leasing the film and that it can be removed at any time due to licensing agreement over which you (as the buyer) had no control over?
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
  I think it should specifically say for how long you are renting it. They knew already when the contract would expire, why renting the movie didn't say "rent for 7 years" (or whatever the timeframe was)
  - 9dev 3mo ago
    That would constitute fraud IMHO. You cannot simply make it appear as though customers bought something, when the verb buy has a very specific and crystal-clear meaning.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
      Do you mean what i am suggesting is fraud? Because when Sony entered the agreement for the movies, you can definitely bet they knew how long it was going to last, and the button I am confident it said "buy" (i don't have a PlayStation). I definitely consider it fraud, but i am a normal consumer.
js2 3mo ago
$1.29 - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/05/30Apple-Launches-iTunes-Plus/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/05/30Apple-Launches-iTun... 18 months later the entire library became DRM-free iTunes Plus quality and you could upgrade existing songs you had already purchased or that you had in your library via iTunes Match. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2009/01/06Changes-Coming-to-the-iTunes-Store/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2009/01/06Changes-Coming-to-t...
nosrepa 3mo ago
I have fond memories of buying those 99 cents songs with coke caps my grandparents collected for me that had codes for itunes on them. Then I'd burn those to a cdrw and rip them again to remove the drm. I still have those files to this day.
snapplebobapple 3mo ago
Zero dollars. Because the marginal cost of production is zero and the movie production budget is just a sunk cost. We need to cut copyright terms back to the original term of 14 years and call it a day. Instead of the commons being ceded to benefit itself with hifher content production, the commons was just robbed to give us current copyright law

jerf 3mo ago

I feel like you're kind of making this more complicated than it actually is, either because you're overcomplicating it or because you're trying to tee up some rhetorical point, but the answer to your question is really quite simple and objective: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie&rh=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A2650304011%257C2650305011%257C6259461011%257C9397930011&dc&ds=v1%3AdwgsNDE3qfgq6s5PL%2FpAO7h2O02yNqZR%2Be4LEZ%2F6C8U https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie&rh=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A... You don't need to ask a hypothetical, the market has an answer. To the extent your reply is "but that's not exactly what my question is", my point is that the market is already pricing all sorts of situations and the market would have no problem pricing just one more possibility into the already complicated market. Including "piracy", and people like me who are treating the vast majority of DVDs and BluRays as just a delivery mechanism for streams rather than "discs".

nekusar 3mo ago

Right now, I won't pay a fucking cent. I'll pirate it off of Usenet or Torrents. I get a strictly better experience if I pirate. Whereas I'm treated like a criminal and sold a much worse experience if I pay. So, fuck paying. I'm not going to pay for abuse.

anonymars 3mo ago
Related point: try legally playing 4k content* on your PC * obviously I mean movies/TV/etc. and the like where you have to pay money (as in the article)

dfxm12 3mo ago

Terminator 2 is currently $8 for a bluray on amazon. $10 for a DVD. This is reasonably a forever version.

dingaling 3mo ago
DVD perhaps yes, until the disc degrades. BluRay no, because your player's keys can be revoked when you pop in a new disc.
- dfxm12 3mo ago
  Ok, how long do you have to rip & copy the content as you desire? It is still reasonably a forever version. Before you bring up laws around keys, first consider that jaywalking in front of your house is illegal too. Again, it is reasonably a forever version.
  - lstodd 3mo ago
    Why even bother with all those hoops. Just download.
    - dfxm12 3mo ago
      Oh, I was adding a pertinent point of discussion in a discussion board. It is fun. I suggest you try it.
      - nekusar 3mo ago
        Snarky shit aside... Why should I pay to be treated as a criminal, when pirating is better in every way and costs nothing? There is no option of "Pay for digital copy of show that permits format/time shifting and backup for as long as I want, with no DRM". Like GOG. Doesn't exist in the pay realm.
        dfxm12 3mo ago
        It seems like you're just adding more and more qualifiers until you can finally justify piracy to yourself. You can reasonably do what you want if you buy the disc. There's a good chance that's how the people you're downloading from did it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

madduci 3mo ago

If I buy a DVD, it costs a fixed price. Why should it be variable, if we talk about digital media? Storage and content streaming is cheaper than embracing a whole logistic (producing DVDs/BlueRays, packaging, shipping). But here we are again: if you buy something digital, you just pay for a "usage license", you don't own anything at all. After all these years or decades, I am still surprised that people expect to own digital content, forever

basisword 3mo ago
With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it. If you buy a DVD and lose it you can't go back for another free copy. There's definitely an issue that the original license should allow you to always download and backup your copy DRM free so you will always have access but most people aren't going to do that. I bought lots of music/video content from iTunes over the years and rarely back it up. The fact I can just stream it/redownload it from them is very useful but it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time.
- triceratops 3mo ago
  > With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it. Not necessarily. What if the store didn't have to do that?
- onion2k 3mo ago
  it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time That's fair so long as it was made clear at the time of purchase that you aren't buying the song, and that you're only renting it for a while. If they didn't put a clear explanation that you might lose access on the page when you clicked buy, and not buried deep in a 50 page EULA, then it is entirely reasonable to assume that Apple can afford to keep a 5MB file available for streaming forever, or until Apple closes down its streaming services.
- thesuitonym 3mo ago

lstodd 3mo ago

I would pay zero. I would just use torrents.

ksec 3mo ago

On a similar scale, if I am paying 35% more for the plus on music, I expect the same for movies around $15 or up to $18.

Netcob 3mo ago

Depends on what those $12 "buy" me. In Sony's case, "buying" meant "renting until Sony's license expires", which they could have displayed on the product page. I very rarely re-watch movies within a few months. So if I buy one, I want to know that I can watch it again in one, 10 or 30 years (if the format can still be played). Which is not guaranteed even with blu-rays mostly thanks to DRM. But what I'd be buying is not having to think about any deadlines. If I'm okay with a deadline, I might as well rent the movie for a weekend, in which case I expect it to be less than $12.

burnte 3mo ago
My problem is that they told me *I* was buying a license. I didn't know I was actually buying a sublicense that was dependent upon Sony's. I didn't buy any of the show, but that's the core here. Sony lied.

robinsonb5 3mo ago

I would pay what I used to pay for DVDs.

breezeTrowel 3mo ago

You'd pay for it what you paid for it. Did the "Buy" button specify that you were buying the movie or did it say you were simply leasing the film and that it can be removed at any time due to licensing agreement over which you (as the buyer) had no control over?

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
I think it should specifically say for how long you are renting it. They knew already when the contract would expire, why renting the movie didn't say "rent for 7 years" (or whatever the timeframe was)
- 9dev 3mo ago
  That would constitute fraud IMHO. You cannot simply make it appear as though customers bought something, when the verb buy has a very specific and crystal-clear meaning.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
    Do you mean what i am suggesting is fraud? Because when Sony entered the agreement for the movies, you can definitely bet they knew how long it was going to last, and the button I am confident it said "buy" (i don't have a PlayStation). I definitely consider it fraud, but i am a normal consumer.

js2 3mo ago

$1.29 - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/05/30Apple-Launches-iTunes-Plus/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/05/30Apple-Launches-iTun... 18 months later the entire library became DRM-free iTunes Plus quality and you could upgrade existing songs you had already purchased or that you had in your library via iTunes Match. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2009/01/06Changes-Coming-to-the-iTunes-Store/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2009/01/06Changes-Coming-to-t...

nosrepa 3mo ago

I have fond memories of buying those 99 cents songs with coke caps my grandparents collected for me that had codes for itunes on them. Then I'd burn those to a cdrw and rip them again to remove the drm. I still have those files to this day.

snapplebobapple 3mo ago

Zero dollars. Because the marginal cost of production is zero and the movie production budget is just a sunk cost. We need to cut copyright terms back to the original term of 14 years and call it a day. Instead of the commons being ceded to benefit itself with hifher content production, the commons was just robbed to give us current copyright law