6 ms·

It's not rare. I repeat. It's not rare. I am a landlord in Seattle with ~55 active tenants/leases. Let's just say that I know of many landlords in the circles I

It's not rare. I repeat. It's not rare. I am a landlord in Seattle with ~55 active tenants/leases. Let's just say that I know of many landlords in the circles I run in that have absolutely stopped renting to leftie types because they've had so many issues over the last few years with many of them over litigating everything; and deciding not to pay rent over the smallest non-issues, or just not paying rent at all. I could cite case after case; and this topic is especially salient to me in the present moment because I am in fact dealing with one of these tenants right now and its a total nightmare. I will spare you the gruesome details of trying to work with this particular tenant but just trust me—I have an incredibly high tolerance to stress and this individual is doing their best to get as far under my skin as possible. When the political class or the cultural zeitgeist tells you over and over that landlords are leeches and that "any attempt to profit off of housing is unethical"—people are going to take that to heart and have a hatred for even well-meaning small landlords. If you don't believe this is the attitude, go visit r/Seattle. The inflammatory language of politicians and cultural leaders sets the tone which plays out as legal battles and fights in properties across the city. This obviously creates an adverse selection problem where small landlords illegally apply their own prejudices and biases in tenant selection. Honestly—could you expect them not to—when the repercussions of picking a bad tenant are so great? And when there are other demographic groups—like immigrants—who are absolutely, verifiably and consistently reliable as tenants. It used to be that it was the section 8 or low income type that were a huge problem but now there's an educated leftish fringe that landlords are also avoiding. Honestly with good reason, IMO. Some homeowners just decide to not list extra rooms in their house outright. I remember hearing something like that Seattle has the highest number of unrented empty rooms in the country (though someone should fact check that). With the political climate the way it is here, it's obvious as to why this is the case.

teachrdan 3mo ago
With all due respect, do you consider yourself, with ~55 active tenants/leases, to be a "small landlord"?
- bombcar 3mo ago
  I read their story as "I'm not small, but I know a lot of smalls who tell me things they won't even tell their confessor."
- nikkwong 3mo ago
  Its spread across about ~ 6 houses. I'm definitely a small landlord. I deal with all tenant issues myself, handle all repairs, leases, and most importantly for me—maintain a healthy relationship (which has grown to many friendships). I use this term in contrast to a faceless, corporate landlord who owns larger apartment buildings. Small landlords and corporate landlords are nothing alike
  - lovich 3mo ago
    Being generous with your ~6 number to be either 5 or 7 houses you have either 7.8-11 people per unit? That's slumlord territory and not any morally better than corporate landlords unless your average unit size is a 4 bed/2 bath. Also there is zero world where you have 6 houses, 50+ people and can call yourself a small time landlord. That's being able to live entirely off of your rental income and a full time landlord. You could maybe, _maybe_ get away with describing yourself as a medium time landlord. Small time is living in a 3 floor house and renting the other 2 floors, or owning 1 other home to rent.
    - halfxing 3mo ago
      I'm sure OP meant 6 houses with several units in it each, not 7-11 people per house. Otherwise the distinction between house and unit doesn't make sense. This is a small time landlord. Large landlords have easily over 10000 units, and he is one half of a percent of that. I hope he is able to live off the rental income. It's a big job to manage 55 units and keep everything in shape and administratively going, deal with turnover and so on.
      - lovich 3mo ago
        nah, having 6 buildings(not houses, if were being precise with terminology here) with multiple units in each, is not a small time landlord. If you can live entirely off the rental income then you are a full time landlord and can at best claim that you aren't a large corporate landlord, but you don't get to invoke the idea that you are some sort of mom and pop situation renting out a spare unit, which is what people assume when you say "small time landlord"
alexashka 3mo ago
> have a hatred for even well-meaning small landlords In what way are you well meaning? You're only doing it for money. The people not paying you rent are also only doing it for money. Sucks when people behave like you, huh.
- eli_gottlieb 3mo ago
  Society isn't supposed to run on philanthropy.
  - alexashka 3mo ago
    [flagged]
- nikkwong 3mo ago
  Yes I’m doing it for the money, I have to be compensated for my time and the financial investment obviously. People who decide to deceive me break not only a social contract but also a legal contract and a commitment they made at the time of signing a lease. If everyone acted like them, there would be no stable housing available for anyone. Talk about a bad take…
  - alexashka 3mo ago
    > Yes I’m doing it for the money Right, so not well meaning. You said well meaning. You're taking that back. Correct? You're upset at someone maximizing money at your expense. You like it when you maximize money at someone else's expense just fine. Correct? The world's smallest violin is playing. Please no 'I'm providing a valuable service' argument. We've already established your only interest is money.
    - nikkwong 3mo ago
      I never said my only interest is money. At your job, is your only interest money? Do you not feel a social obligation to your coworkers; want to do good for your teammate and your company? Again, talk about a stupid take, as if humans are one dimensional like that. Corporate landlords and hedge funds that own apartment sky rises are probably only in it for the money. You can't say the same thing about every small landlord just because they make a profit.
onetokeoverthe 3mo ago
[dead]
chirau 3mo ago
What exactly do you mean by "well meaning small landlord"?
- nikkwong 3mo ago
  I just try to be the landlord that I would want to have. I respond to my tenants quickly, always give them concessions, let them pay late, or at a discount when they’re struggling, referred them to work at my companies, etc, etc. it’s not all about the money, it’s also being a good member of the community, for me. This is in contrast to a corporate landlord where your $1500 disappears into a void every month.
  - klausa 3mo ago
    Look, I'm sure you're a nice person and a better landlord than many corporate landlords; and trying to do well. I'm genuinely glad you're trying, and helping your tenants when you can; but I think you've drunk a bit too much of your own kool-aid. From perspective of your tenants, that money still goes into a void, no matter how nice you are.
    - tyre 3mo ago
      What exactly are you asking for? They clearly are expressing empathy for others’ situations. I live in a managed building that is completely soulless. I needed to extend my lease by one month before moving out. They wanted me to sign a new 12 month lease at a higher rate, break it, and pay a two month penalty for terminating early. This took over a month to get to something remotely human. There is absolutely a difference between someone treating people like people and bad landlords. Also, they aren’t throwing their money into a void. They’re literally getting housing.
      - klausa 3mo ago
        “Money into a void” is the exact phrase that the _person I’m replying to_ used when comparing themselves to a corporate landlord.
    - 3mo ago
dh2022 3mo ago
Honest question - how do you know a potential tenant is “leftie type”?
- ecshafer 3mo ago
  Honestly? not op but that seems easy.
  - dh2022 3mo ago
    It was an honest question.
- eli_gottlieb 3mo ago
  Don't worry: they'll tell you.
- mothballed 3mo ago
  The lefty landlords are an even bigger problem for housing affordability than the lefty tenants. They want the anti-property rights boot up the ass of anyone trying to build new homes or dwellings, under the auspices of endangered owls or environmental review or "character of the community" or the wetlands or whatever the current scam is. It's all the same commie shit but only for themselves and at the expense of everyone else, of course dressed up that the dumber and younger end of the tenants actually believe it's in their interest.
- ReptileMan 3mo ago
  You know the horseshoe on the door that will stop the fae? He has just put instead of it maga hat with a tesla badge on it.
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  Social media? The problematic types of left- and right wingers don’t tend to be quiet.
- Auracle 3mo ago
  Dyed hair, nose rings, tattoos, short hair on women, effeminate type looks on men, etc. People on the fair ends of political spectrums tend to change their plumage to show their affiliation.
ecshafer 3mo ago
> And when there are other demographic groups—like immigrants—who are absolutely, verifiably and consistently reliable as tenants. I know someone with something like 120 units. Unassuming nice old lady that makes over a million a year. She tries to rent to immigrants as much as possible since they don't cause issues.
- hdgvhicv 3mo ago
  The best people to rent to are illegal immigrants, you don’t have to do things like ensure they have livable accommodation as they first sign of complaint you just phone up the authorities and they get kicked out.
jandrewrogers 3mo ago
The net effect is most of the people I know with a rental or two in Seattle will only rent via direct referrals from people they know, which also allows them to rent at a lower rate. Their properties are no longer available to the general public. The demand is high enough that this works. Sucks if you are new to Seattle though. This kind of non-payment of rent abuse exploded during COVID.
jquery 3mo ago
>stopped renting to leftie types I’m curious how they’re managing to do this. I don’t give any outward signals of being a “leftie type” but I absolutely am. Conversely, I know lots of people who have a very punk look but are super conservative.
eli_gottlieb 3mo ago
I'd like to try and give you some sympathy, but my last landlord was a well-regarded property management firm who left me with no heat from the end of October to the weekend of Martin Luther King Day in New England, effectively only fixing it once I withheld rent, got on the local news, and was threatening a lawsuit. So, uh... yeah plenty of landlords have done a lot to earn that reputation for the class as a whole.
- nikkwong 3mo ago
  That's true, but I think when you pick a place to live in, you're not only really only interviewing the living establishment itself, but also the landlord/property management associated with it. I make an effort to do all of the tours of the units myself and establish good repoire with the tenants from the get-go. It's certainly inexcusable if a landlord doesn't fix things that impair living conditions—in Seattle we have a law that things of this nature must be fixed within 48 hours which I think is a reasonable law.
baby 3mo ago
Lefty tenant here. I def. stopped paying my rent a few times until my landlord fixed their shit or agreed to stop scamming me. Last time I did it I signed a lease for a year, with 2 months of advance notice if I decided to leave (in the UK). I told them 2 months before the end of my lease, and they told me I had to wait for the end of my lease, then wait 2 months, and then I could be out. I just stopped paying rent, and left them a horrible one star review on gmaps. One day he showed up at my place (with soup who was coming to fix something) and tried to enter. I told him to stay out. And then he started crying and telling me how I could not just stop paying rent. I could tell how hard it was to be a small landlord. I told him that I would resume paying if they signed smthg to agree to let me break the lease at the year end AND reimburse me the fees that appeared at the least minute, a year ago, right as I was signing the lease in front of them. They agreed, reimbursed me my caution/deposit at the end, easy. Would recommend just stop paying your rent if anything ever happens. I would do it again.
- arwineap 3mo ago
  > I def. stopped paying my rent a few times until my landlord fixed their shit In most municipalities, this is OK so long as the thing that needs to be fixed is a habitability issue. Heat, water, etc > One day he showed up at my place (with soup who was coming to fix something) and tried to enter. I told him to stay out. ??? You wouldn't let him solve the issue you stopped paying for? How do you justify that?
  - mrguyorama 3mo ago
    The issue he stopped paying for was an explicit rejection of their tenant rights, and fixing a separate issue doesn't fix that.
  - baby 3mo ago
    I let the soup in.
WhyIsItAlwaysHN 3mo ago
If you own 6 houses, you don't only have an income the size of a full-time job but also make money out of the appreciation of property prices. Couldn't you and your immediate family retire by just selling these 6 houses? Or is the situation different in Seattle? Also you are saying you are also working as a senior SWE. How are you so involved with 55 tenants and balance a full-time job at the same time? I've known people with 1 tenant who needed days off to deal with their issues, I find it hard to imagine personally dealing with 55. Honestly curious here
- nikkwong 3mo ago
  I could sell all of the houses and retire, yeah. Especially the poor performing ones, after accounting for the mortgage I am in the red on two of them every month. I don't know if I expect property prices to appreciate in Seattle as we're flooding the market with housing and in the US we're having some unstable demographic shifts so I try to select properties that perform well on day 1, going forward. Yes, my family also asks me how I do it. I am just working constantly, from sunup to sundown; pretty much 7 days a week. I don't always do a perfect job juggling the responsibilities but I do my best and I think 99-100% of my tenants would say they're enjoying the accommodations; and I think my manager would say my performance is good. Hoping I can get married and start a family soon and at that point I think hiring a property manager would be the correct move. But I have a very high amount of resilience to stress and being upset so being consistently under pressure isn't too much of a problem for me personally. Also keep in mind there are certain types of tenants that are lower maintenance than others, so proper tenant selection is important.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

teachrdan 3mo ago

With all due respect, do you consider yourself, with ~55 active tenants/leases, to be a "small landlord"?

bombcar 3mo ago
I read their story as "I'm not small, but I know a lot of smalls who tell me things they won't even tell their confessor."
nikkwong 3mo ago
Its spread across about ~ 6 houses. I'm definitely a small landlord. I deal with all tenant issues myself, handle all repairs, leases, and most importantly for me—maintain a healthy relationship (which has grown to many friendships). I use this term in contrast to a faceless, corporate landlord who owns larger apartment buildings. Small landlords and corporate landlords are nothing alike
- lovich 3mo ago
  Being generous with your ~6 number to be either 5 or 7 houses you have either 7.8-11 people per unit? That's slumlord territory and not any morally better than corporate landlords unless your average unit size is a 4 bed/2 bath. Also there is zero world where you have 6 houses, 50+ people and can call yourself a small time landlord. That's being able to live entirely off of your rental income and a full time landlord. You could maybe, _maybe_ get away with describing yourself as a medium time landlord. Small time is living in a 3 floor house and renting the other 2 floors, or owning 1 other home to rent.
  - halfxing 3mo ago
    I'm sure OP meant 6 houses with several units in it each, not 7-11 people per house. Otherwise the distinction between house and unit doesn't make sense. This is a small time landlord. Large landlords have easily over 10000 units, and he is one half of a percent of that. I hope he is able to live off the rental income. It's a big job to manage 55 units and keep everything in shape and administratively going, deal with turnover and so on.
    - lovich 3mo ago
      nah, having 6 buildings(not houses, if were being precise with terminology here) with multiple units in each, is not a small time landlord. If you can live entirely off the rental income then you are a full time landlord and can at best claim that you aren't a large corporate landlord, but you don't get to invoke the idea that you are some sort of mom and pop situation renting out a spare unit, which is what people assume when you say "small time landlord"

alexashka 3mo ago

> have a hatred for even well-meaning small landlords In what way are you well meaning? You're only doing it for money. The people not paying you rent are also only doing it for money. Sucks when people behave like you, huh.

eli_gottlieb 3mo ago
Society isn't supposed to run on philanthropy.
- alexashka 3mo ago
  [flagged]
nikkwong 3mo ago
Yes I’m doing it for the money, I have to be compensated for my time and the financial investment obviously. People who decide to deceive me break not only a social contract but also a legal contract and a commitment they made at the time of signing a lease. If everyone acted like them, there would be no stable housing available for anyone. Talk about a bad take…
- alexashka 3mo ago
  > Yes I’m doing it for the money Right, so not well meaning. You said well meaning. You're taking that back. Correct? You're upset at someone maximizing money at your expense. You like it when you maximize money at someone else's expense just fine. Correct? The world's smallest violin is playing. Please no 'I'm providing a valuable service' argument. We've already established your only interest is money.
  - nikkwong 3mo ago
    I never said my only interest is money. At your job, is your only interest money? Do you not feel a social obligation to your coworkers; want to do good for your teammate and your company? Again, talk about a stupid take, as if humans are one dimensional like that. Corporate landlords and hedge funds that own apartment sky rises are probably only in it for the money. You can't say the same thing about every small landlord just because they make a profit.

onetokeoverthe 3mo ago

[dead]

chirau 3mo ago

What exactly do you mean by "well meaning small landlord"?

nikkwong 3mo ago
I just try to be the landlord that I would want to have. I respond to my tenants quickly, always give them concessions, let them pay late, or at a discount when they’re struggling, referred them to work at my companies, etc, etc. it’s not all about the money, it’s also being a good member of the community, for me. This is in contrast to a corporate landlord where your $1500 disappears into a void every month.
- klausa 3mo ago
  Look, I'm sure you're a nice person and a better landlord than many corporate landlords; and trying to do well. I'm genuinely glad you're trying, and helping your tenants when you can; but I think you've drunk a bit too much of your own kool-aid. From perspective of your tenants, that money still goes into a void, no matter how nice you are.
  - tyre 3mo ago
    What exactly are you asking for? They clearly are expressing empathy for others’ situations. I live in a managed building that is completely soulless. I needed to extend my lease by one month before moving out. They wanted me to sign a new 12 month lease at a higher rate, break it, and pay a two month penalty for terminating early. This took over a month to get to something remotely human. There is absolutely a difference between someone treating people like people and bad landlords. Also, they aren’t throwing their money into a void. They’re literally getting housing.
    - klausa 3mo ago
      “Money into a void” is the exact phrase that the _person I’m replying to_ used when comparing themselves to a corporate landlord.
  - 3mo ago

dh2022 3mo ago

Honest question - how do you know a potential tenant is “leftie type”?

ecshafer 3mo ago
Honestly? not op but that seems easy.
- dh2022 3mo ago
  It was an honest question.
eli_gottlieb 3mo ago
Don't worry: they'll tell you.
mothballed 3mo ago
The lefty landlords are an even bigger problem for housing affordability than the lefty tenants. They want the anti-property rights boot up the ass of anyone trying to build new homes or dwellings, under the auspices of endangered owls or environmental review or "character of the community" or the wetlands or whatever the current scam is. It's all the same commie shit but only for themselves and at the expense of everyone else, of course dressed up that the dumber and younger end of the tenants actually believe it's in their interest.
ReptileMan 3mo ago
You know the horseshoe on the door that will stop the fae? He has just put instead of it maga hat with a tesla badge on it.
JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
Social media? The problematic types of left- and right wingers don’t tend to be quiet.
Auracle 3mo ago
Dyed hair, nose rings, tattoos, short hair on women, effeminate type looks on men, etc. People on the fair ends of political spectrums tend to change their plumage to show their affiliation.

ecshafer 3mo ago

> And when there are other demographic groups—like immigrants—who are absolutely, verifiably and consistently reliable as tenants. I know someone with something like 120 units. Unassuming nice old lady that makes over a million a year. She tries to rent to immigrants as much as possible since they don't cause issues.

hdgvhicv 3mo ago
The best people to rent to are illegal immigrants, you don’t have to do things like ensure they have livable accommodation as they first sign of complaint you just phone up the authorities and they get kicked out.

jandrewrogers 3mo ago

The net effect is most of the people I know with a rental or two in Seattle will only rent via direct referrals from people they know, which also allows them to rent at a lower rate. Their properties are no longer available to the general public. The demand is high enough that this works. Sucks if you are new to Seattle though. This kind of non-payment of rent abuse exploded during COVID.

jquery 3mo ago

>stopped renting to leftie types I’m curious how they’re managing to do this. I don’t give any outward signals of being a “leftie type” but I absolutely am. Conversely, I know lots of people who have a very punk look but are super conservative.

eli_gottlieb 3mo ago

I'd like to try and give you some sympathy, but my last landlord was a well-regarded property management firm who left me with no heat from the end of October to the weekend of Martin Luther King Day in New England, effectively only fixing it once I withheld rent, got on the local news, and was threatening a lawsuit. So, uh... yeah plenty of landlords have done a lot to earn that reputation for the class as a whole.

nikkwong 3mo ago
That's true, but I think when you pick a place to live in, you're not only really only interviewing the living establishment itself, but also the landlord/property management associated with it. I make an effort to do all of the tours of the units myself and establish good repoire with the tenants from the get-go. It's certainly inexcusable if a landlord doesn't fix things that impair living conditions—in Seattle we have a law that things of this nature must be fixed within 48 hours which I think is a reasonable law.

baby 3mo ago

Lefty tenant here. I def. stopped paying my rent a few times until my landlord fixed their shit or agreed to stop scamming me. Last time I did it I signed a lease for a year, with 2 months of advance notice if I decided to leave (in the UK). I told them 2 months before the end of my lease, and they told me I had to wait for the end of my lease, then wait 2 months, and then I could be out. I just stopped paying rent, and left them a horrible one star review on gmaps. One day he showed up at my place (with soup who was coming to fix something) and tried to enter. I told him to stay out. And then he started crying and telling me how I could not just stop paying rent. I could tell how hard it was to be a small landlord. I told him that I would resume paying if they signed smthg to agree to let me break the lease at the year end AND reimburse me the fees that appeared at the least minute, a year ago, right as I was signing the lease in front of them. They agreed, reimbursed me my caution/deposit at the end, easy. Would recommend just stop paying your rent if anything ever happens. I would do it again.

arwineap 3mo ago
> I def. stopped paying my rent a few times until my landlord fixed their shit In most municipalities, this is OK so long as the thing that needs to be fixed is a habitability issue. Heat, water, etc > One day he showed up at my place (with soup who was coming to fix something) and tried to enter. I told him to stay out. ??? You wouldn't let him solve the issue you stopped paying for? How do you justify that?
- mrguyorama 3mo ago
  The issue he stopped paying for was an explicit rejection of their tenant rights, and fixing a separate issue doesn't fix that.
- baby 3mo ago
  I let the soup in.

WhyIsItAlwaysHN 3mo ago

If you own 6 houses, you don't only have an income the size of a full-time job but also make money out of the appreciation of property prices. Couldn't you and your immediate family retire by just selling these 6 houses? Or is the situation different in Seattle? Also you are saying you are also working as a senior SWE. How are you so involved with 55 tenants and balance a full-time job at the same time? I've known people with 1 tenant who needed days off to deal with their issues, I find it hard to imagine personally dealing with 55. Honestly curious here

nikkwong 3mo ago
I could sell all of the houses and retire, yeah. Especially the poor performing ones, after accounting for the mortgage I am in the red on two of them every month. I don't know if I expect property prices to appreciate in Seattle as we're flooding the market with housing and in the US we're having some unstable demographic shifts so I try to select properties that perform well on day 1, going forward. Yes, my family also asks me how I do it. I am just working constantly, from sunup to sundown; pretty much 7 days a week. I don't always do a perfect job juggling the responsibilities but I do my best and I think 99-100% of my tenants would say they're enjoying the accommodations; and I think my manager would say my performance is good. Hoping I can get married and start a family soon and at that point I think hiring a property manager would be the correct move. But I have a very high amount of resilience to stress and being upset so being consistently under pressure isn't too much of a problem for me personally. Also keep in mind there are certain types of tenants that are lower maintenance than others, so proper tenant selection is important.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]