6 ms·
Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?
by contagiousflow 3mo ago
Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?
- kaufmae 3mo agoFrequency is basically 15 minutes almost all over the country already
- Schiendelman 3mo agoThat's almost laughably infrequent - you can use single level trains with more doors to triple that without even going to automation.
- throw-the-towel 3mo agoHas any railway network managed to get less than 15 minute headways? Metros don't count, they're isolated and often enclosed.
- spockz 3mo agoAt some point we had 10m intercity intervals between Rotterdam/utrecht and Utrecht/Amsterdam in NL.
- tonfa 3mo agoSeems like it's 4 per hour on Rotterdam/Utrecht, seems similar to Geneva/Lausanne with 6 per hour. In any case, I think commuters are fine with every 15 min, as long as there's enough seats. (for long distance like trains, my feeling is that frequency below 15min doesn't have a lot of impact, unlike shorter distance public transport like tram/bus/subway)
- t0mas88 3mo agoJup, quite common in the Netherlands. There are 10 minute trains from Utrecht to Amsterdam. And form Rotterdam and Den Haag to Schiphol. And from Utrecht to Den Bosch and Eindhoven. Most of these are double decker trains and long platforms so they move a lot of people at once.
- trnglina 3mo agoMost of Tokyo's mass transit network is absolutely neither isolated nor enclosed, and operates with vastly higher frequencies. Here's is the timetable for a suburban station on a commuter lines: https://train-cloud.navitime.biz/en/odakyu/railroads/timetables?home-key=top_en&directional-railroad=00000686-up&station=00004633&schedule-type=weekday https://train-cloud.navitime.biz/en/odakyu/railroads/timetab... On a weekday at peak hours, there are up to 20+ trains an hour, with commuter trains continuing directly into Metro systems, and directly onto different commuter lines on the other end.
- yerich 3mo agoThe highest frequency city pairs I can think of, at peak periods, looking at available tickets this week: Shanghai Hongqiao to Hangzhou East is about 10 high speed trains per hour, all trains using the same line. Tokyo to Shin-Osaka is also about 10 high speed trains per hour. Taipei to Taichung is 8-9 trains per hour, high speed + conventional. Shanghai to Suzhou is similar. Rome to Florence is 6-7 trains per hour. Hong Kong West Kowloon to Shenzhen North is 6 high speed trains per hour. Beijing South to Tianjin is 5-6 high speed trains per hour.
- Schiendelman 3mo agoThe Tokaido shinkansen has as low as 3 minute headways at peak times.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- hvb2 3mo agoYou can't add more trains if the schedule is full to the brink. You would need to add train tracks, and that requires big projects
- throw-the-towel 3mo agoAnd it is in fact so full that traibs crossing over from Germany sometimes get denied entry into the Swiss networks because there's no room to fit them in the schedule.
- sixhobbits 3mo agouh they get denied entry if they are late because german trains often are and it wreaks havoc on swiss timetabling where trains still generally depart to the minute and many commuters plan their day around making connections with a 2 minute change time. if the ICE from basel to zurich is late then switzerland runs their own replacement in its spot and denies entry to the german train to avoid knockon delays. yes the schedule is full but its not just no space for more trains, more no space for unpredictable trains
- t0mas88 3mo agoThe Netherlands should do this as well, maybe DB will then at some point figure out how to run a train on time. The ICEs from Germany are more often late than on time, which then causes delays for other trains using the same tracks.
- spockz 3mo agoAFAICT they only get denied if they are not on time.
- throw-the-towel 3mo agoWell that was my point. They come late, and there's nowhere to stick them in the schedule because it's already full.
- 3mo ago
- tempay 3mo agoIt's not simple with the "clock-face scheduling" system which is used which times the trains to all meet at the big nodes (Zürich, Bern, Basel) so connections work. To achieve this trains are supposed to fit into 30/60/120 minute beats which synchronise the entire system. See [1,2] for how this works. Also many of the most important parts of the system are at capacity. Bigger trains can help but a lot of these gains have already been realised in the crowded areas. The current hope is digitalising signaling to allow density to be increased but that's not simple/cheap even if it's cheaper than working on the lines themselves. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbV1rIPhCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbV1rIPhCg
- contagiousflow 3mo agoI'm not saying this is wrong, that makes a lot of sense. But on the other hand why have I never heard of other, much more dense countries facing this problem? I just never hear of Japan, China, Germany, Taiwan, etc seeing overcrowded trains and raise their hands saying "there can't possibly be a solution!"
- throw-the-towel 3mo agoGermany's passenger rail is notoriously failing. China is big and empty compared to Switzerland so there's lots of room to build. Japan's population is stagnant, and so train use might be stagnant too. (No idea about Taiwan.)
- mahkeiro 3mo agoWhat does it have to do with they way they have to manage way higher population density? Singapore is 2/3 Swiss population on 1/3 of the Canton of Vaud.. They are 18 Chinese cities with a population over 10 million.
- Gud 3mo agoGood for them I guess? Not everyone wants to live in a Chinese style mega city. Fwiw I am a foreigner in Switzerland (I live in Zürich) and I can definitely understand why the people of Switzerland don’t want it more crowded.
- kovariantenkak 3mo agoIn many areas the train network is already at capacity.