10 ms·

Why are there so many canines in fine art?

19 points by prismatic 3mo ago

magneticnorth 3mo ago
https://archive.is/UOU6r https://archive.is/UOU6r
magneticnorth 3mo ago
The human-dog relationship is maybe my favorite thing about being human. We've bred this companion animal that we're able to bond with so deeply, and I so appreciate the simplicity of the bidirectional unconditional love. So rare between humans, so common human-to-dog. This article makes an interesting point about dog attention as a focal point in art - not something I'd noticed before, but I enjoy having it pointed out to me.
- mc32 3mo ago
  That the dogs are just about always subordinates and subservient makes the relationship easier to work -and of course, dogs are happy to comply since it's part of their instinct to be subordinate in the presence of a dominant being (canine or person). Human to human is a little more difficult since outside of structured organization, we don't tend to play subordinate in most Western culture. You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife, yet there is man-man strife since outside of structured organizations men don't automatically measure up and decide they are inferior or superior and accept and internalize that relationship (though some Eastern cultures do display deference at a superficial level). Moms also tend to have a soft-spot for the momma's boys.
  - squidsoup 3mo ago
    > That the dogs are just about always subordinates and subservient makes the relationship easier to work You've clearly never lived with a border collie.
  - magneticnorth 3mo ago
    > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role .. and there is less man-woman strife Citation needed
  - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
    > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife Really? Many of them, to my mind, have endemic issues with sexual violence, honor-based violence (e.g. acid throwing) and foregone development.
    - watwut 3mo ago
      You have to understand, that does not count. When she tells no or protest, that is the strife. But when he beats her, violates her or insults and diminishes her, that is just valid enforcement of the authority.
    - mc32 3mo ago
      I worded that poorly. It’s a bit of a tautology but what I’m saying is that in those relationships where the women by tradition unquestionably accept this subservient position, there is less violence than women in the same culture who protest the the subservient position. I’m doing this to illustrate why the man:dog relationship is easy. The dog automatically subjugates itself. Of course humans will find that very comforting. There is no pushback and even when the owner misbehaves the dog still shows affection as if it’s perfectly natural —and to the dog it is. However, if you take it to the extreme the dog will turn on the owner.
      - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
        > there is less violence than women in the same culture who protest the the subservient position To extend your analogy, is there more violence and cruelty against dogs (by humans) today compared with when wolves and men were more or less equals? Even scaled for populations, I think the answer reveals itself simply. Being in a subservient position means being a recipient of violence. Because humans, like it or not, are a violent species. The women in hierarchic societies may quietly suffer their violence. But that doesn’t change the fact that it occurs, and in all likelihood with more frequency than in societies that treat men and women as equal. (Modern and traditional.)
  - IAmBroom 3mo ago
    > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife Aside from morality police arresting or even whipping women on the street for infractions of the sexist laws... Yeah, places like Iran are a virtual Heaven on Earth for women.
- NopIdoN 3mo ago
  yet "like a dog" is rarely flattering
  - zmgsabst 3mo ago
    “Dogged” is approximately 700 years old and complimentary.
- ksymph 3mo ago
  I dunno, it kinda freaks me out. For thousands of years we've been selectively breeding another species to love us unconditionally, and be so subservient to the point of dependence. Imagine if we found out some alien species has their own 'breed' of human they've been genetically engineering for millennia; one that wants nothing more than the company of their alien owners and hates when they leave, that has been bred to be perpetually child-like and devoid of critical thinking in order to better please them, is sometimes pampered and sometimes abused but absolutely subject to the alien species' will. They keep us locked in a house or yard most of the day because their world is dangerous for us, and see all of this as totally justified because they're our intellectual superiors. They make posts on AlienNews about how beautiful the alien-human relationship is because they bred us to be the perfect companion; only magnifying the social compulsions that already existed in humans, to be fair, but still fundamentally changing us. For the record I do understand that selectively bred humans != dogs, but it still just makes me kinda uncomfortable when I think about it all too much.
  - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
    > Imagine if we found out some alien species has their own 'breed' of human they've been genetically engineering for millennia Isn’t that just being a child? I get the rejection of neoteny. But haven’t humans also become genetically better suited for civilization than our wild ancestors?
  - shfuhsher 3mo ago
    Well there are theories humans on Earth are selectively bred too. The selective breeding that led to the dogs being more subservient also affected humans. As human populations who worked with dogs had advantages over the ones who didn’t. That’s a theory at least. There are also theories that humans domesticated ourselves. That civilization promotes certain traits over others. Just like when we domesticated other species we chose to promote some traits over others. Jails could be an example of this process. Violent fools getting removed from society. The genes that led to that stuff being removed. Meanwhile the humans with traits more compatible with society get successful and have kids and so pass on those traits.
SanjayMehta 3mo ago
> Sometimes he stared first at the ball or man, then back at me, then at the ball or man again, until I retrieved the ball or moved away from the man. My dog stares at me, then the AC, then back at me again when he wants it turned on.
JimsonYang 3mo ago
Is it the same in movies? I wonder if the dogs motif is across different media format
metalman 3mo ago
come on! dogs knew where technology was going and started there media based influencer campain early, knowing that was key to them beating us into space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika
newtonianrules 3mo ago
Because dogs are awesome. Next question!
stefan_lec 3mo ago
Because they couldn’t get the cats to pose obediently for the artist?
anigbrowl 3mo ago
Why shouldn't there be? Large numbers of people like dogs. Another Atlantic 'investigation' of a nontroversy.
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  > Why shouldn't there be? Nobody said there shouldn’t. It’s an exploratory piece of the intersection of art and the relationship between humans and dogs. It’s genuinely useful to know that ancient Romans eulogized their dogs, in part because it tells us about ourselves.
throwaway85825 3mo ago
We like dogs

19 points by prismatic 3mo ago

https://archive.is/UOU6r https://archive.is/UOU6r

The human-dog relationship is maybe my favorite thing about being human. We've bred this companion animal that we're able to bond with so deeply, and I so appreciate the simplicity of the bidirectional unconditional love. So rare between humans, so common human-to-dog. This article makes an interesting point about dog attention as a focal point in art - not something I'd noticed before, but I enjoy having it pointed out to me.

mc32 3mo ago
That the dogs are just about always subordinates and subservient makes the relationship easier to work -and of course, dogs are happy to comply since it's part of their instinct to be subordinate in the presence of a dominant being (canine or person). Human to human is a little more difficult since outside of structured organization, we don't tend to play subordinate in most Western culture. You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife, yet there is man-man strife since outside of structured organizations men don't automatically measure up and decide they are inferior or superior and accept and internalize that relationship (though some Eastern cultures do display deference at a superficial level). Moms also tend to have a soft-spot for the momma's boys.
- squidsoup 3mo ago
  > That the dogs are just about always subordinates and subservient makes the relationship easier to work You've clearly never lived with a border collie.
- magneticnorth 3mo ago
  > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role .. and there is less man-woman strife Citation needed
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife Really? Many of them, to my mind, have endemic issues with sexual violence, honor-based violence (e.g. acid throwing) and foregone development.
  - watwut 3mo ago
    You have to understand, that does not count. When she tells no or protest, that is the strife. But when he beats her, violates her or insults and diminishes her, that is just valid enforcement of the authority.
  - mc32 3mo ago
    I worded that poorly. It’s a bit of a tautology but what I’m saying is that in those relationships where the women by tradition unquestionably accept this subservient position, there is less violence than women in the same culture who protest the the subservient position. I’m doing this to illustrate why the man:dog relationship is easy. The dog automatically subjugates itself. Of course humans will find that very comforting. There is no pushback and even when the owner misbehaves the dog still shows affection as if it’s perfectly natural —and to the dog it is. However, if you take it to the extreme the dog will turn on the owner.
    - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
      > there is less violence than women in the same culture who protest the the subservient position To extend your analogy, is there more violence and cruelty against dogs (by humans) today compared with when wolves and men were more or less equals? Even scaled for populations, I think the answer reveals itself simply. Being in a subservient position means being a recipient of violence. Because humans, like it or not, are a violent species. The women in hierarchic societies may quietly suffer their violence. But that doesn’t change the fact that it occurs, and in all likelihood with more frequency than in societies that treat men and women as equal. (Modern and traditional.)
- IAmBroom 3mo ago
  > You do see some cultures where men play an exceedingly dominant role (where women by multiple facets of tradition play the submissive role) and there is less man-woman strife Aside from morality police arresting or even whipping women on the street for infractions of the sexist laws... Yeah, places like Iran are a virtual Heaven on Earth for women.
NopIdoN 3mo ago
yet "like a dog" is rarely flattering
- zmgsabst 3mo ago
  “Dogged” is approximately 700 years old and complimentary.
ksymph 3mo ago
I dunno, it kinda freaks me out. For thousands of years we've been selectively breeding another species to love us unconditionally, and be so subservient to the point of dependence. Imagine if we found out some alien species has their own 'breed' of human they've been genetically engineering for millennia; one that wants nothing more than the company of their alien owners and hates when they leave, that has been bred to be perpetually child-like and devoid of critical thinking in order to better please them, is sometimes pampered and sometimes abused but absolutely subject to the alien species' will. They keep us locked in a house or yard most of the day because their world is dangerous for us, and see all of this as totally justified because they're our intellectual superiors. They make posts on AlienNews about how beautiful the alien-human relationship is because they bred us to be the perfect companion; only magnifying the social compulsions that already existed in humans, to be fair, but still fundamentally changing us. For the record I do understand that selectively bred humans != dogs, but it still just makes me kinda uncomfortable when I think about it all too much.
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  > Imagine if we found out some alien species has their own 'breed' of human they've been genetically engineering for millennia Isn’t that just being a child? I get the rejection of neoteny. But haven’t humans also become genetically better suited for civilization than our wild ancestors?
- shfuhsher 3mo ago
  Well there are theories humans on Earth are selectively bred too. The selective breeding that led to the dogs being more subservient also affected humans. As human populations who worked with dogs had advantages over the ones who didn’t. That’s a theory at least. There are also theories that humans domesticated ourselves. That civilization promotes certain traits over others. Just like when we domesticated other species we chose to promote some traits over others. Jails could be an example of this process. Violent fools getting removed from society. The genes that led to that stuff being removed. Meanwhile the humans with traits more compatible with society get successful and have kids and so pass on those traits.

SanjayMehta 3mo ago

> Sometimes he stared first at the ball or man, then back at me, then at the ball or man again, until I retrieved the ball or moved away from the man. My dog stares at me, then the AC, then back at me again when he wants it turned on.

JimsonYang 3mo ago

Is it the same in movies? I wonder if the dogs motif is across different media format

metalman 3mo ago

come on! dogs knew where technology was going and started there media based influencer campain early, knowing that was key to them beating us into space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika

newtonianrules 3mo ago

Because dogs are awesome. Next question!

stefan_lec 3mo ago

Because they couldn’t get the cats to pose obediently for the artist?

anigbrowl 3mo ago

Why shouldn't there be? Large numbers of people like dogs. Another Atlantic 'investigation' of a nontroversy.

JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
> Why shouldn't there be? Nobody said there shouldn’t. It’s an exploratory piece of the intersection of art and the relationship between humans and dogs. It’s genuinely useful to know that ancient Romans eulogized their dogs, in part because it tells us about ourselves.

throwaway85825 3mo ago

We like dogs