7 ms·

I want to continue to build data centers, but I dont really want one in my back yard either. But New York seems to be hurting itself lately, the states job grow

I want to continue to build data centers, but I dont really want one in my back yard either. But New York seems to be hurting itself lately, the states job growth has slowed over the past few years. This reminds me of them canceling the Amazon HQ.

thinkingtoilet 3mo ago
So other people's back yards it is! What a wonderful philosophy. As for Amazon HQ, I don't know what NY's deal was but I was in Boston when it was a consideration and the amount of tax breaks they wanted was insane and would have been a huge net loss for the city. I'm very glad it wasn't moved there. It doesn't matter if you create a few thousand jobs if you get literal billions in tax breaks, it's a net loss for the state.
- sincerely 3mo ago
  Well there are plenty of places that aren’t in anyone’s backyard
  - beart 3mo ago
    "Backyard" is obviously not to be taken literally. Anywhere you put one of these things is going to have an impact on the region. But perhaps you can provide some examples of places that are not in anyone's backyard?
  - kube-system 3mo ago
    "in [someone's] backyard" is a colloquialism that refers to "those who are in that area"
- alpha_squared 3mo ago
  If I remember correctly, reporting at the time just after DC was selected was suggesting that it was always going to be DC to be in close proximity to government and that the whole fiasco was a way to extract as many concessions as possible from the city in its efforts to "compete" for the new offices. What even is an "HQ" if the actual headquarters that disproportionately houses more office workers than anywhere else is still in Seattle?
  - jcranmer 3mo ago
    Hell, after the 'competition' was announced, many commentators observed that it was pretty much written with Arlington, VA in mind, and the competition was less a serious competition and more a ploy to try to get a lot of subsidies for what their plans already were. It's also worth noting that the bids that were accepted (Arlington and New York) were some of the most miserly bids.
- bloppe 3mo ago
  The biggest possible tax break is zero tax, which is what you get when they move out of state
  - thinkingtoilet 3mo ago
    Again, it would have been a net loss for the city. So walking away with zero is a huge win.
    - bloppe 3mo ago
      How do you figure? Curious as to where the costs come from
dylan604 3mo ago
Once construction of a data center has completed, how many jobs will they actually be adding? It reminds me of the people saying that oil pipelines are good for jobs, but that's again only a temporary blip during construction. For data centers, for the sheer size of them, they are massively empty of people.
- CodingJeebus 3mo ago
  "Job growth" is such an easily manipulated metric by companies to score tax breaks from governments, especially for companies like Amazon that can claim "our warehouse will create X jobs" while developing autonomous warehouse technology that significantly cuts the number of actual jobs on the back end. Such tax breaks should be tied to auditable figures verifying that the corporation hired the number of people they claimed they would, but of course they would never agree to such terms.
  - simbosambo 3mo ago
    [dead]
- ecshafer 3mo ago
  How many temporary and permanent jobs does an empty lot provide? Many temporary and a few permanent sounds much better.
  - zerobees 3mo ago
    New York doesn't have many "empty lots". If it's agricultural land that's getting converted into datacenters, it probably supports a comparable number of temporary and permanent jobs per acre in the region's climate.
    - ecshafer 3mo ago
      Are you sure New York doesn't have many empty lots? I can go drive through Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo and find plenty. There's a ton of land that is not being farmed that are is fully of rocky, poor quality soil. The data centers weren't going to go into NYC, but upstate New York has plenty of space for Data Centers. Oswego has two power plants, and could use two more. Building is good.
rightbyte 3mo ago
Amazon wanted a deal that was just bad for NY.

thinkingtoilet 3mo ago

So other people's back yards it is! What a wonderful philosophy. As for Amazon HQ, I don't know what NY's deal was but I was in Boston when it was a consideration and the amount of tax breaks they wanted was insane and would have been a huge net loss for the city. I'm very glad it wasn't moved there. It doesn't matter if you create a few thousand jobs if you get literal billions in tax breaks, it's a net loss for the state.

sincerely 3mo ago
Well there are plenty of places that aren’t in anyone’s backyard
- beart 3mo ago
  "Backyard" is obviously not to be taken literally. Anywhere you put one of these things is going to have an impact on the region. But perhaps you can provide some examples of places that are not in anyone's backyard?
- kube-system 3mo ago
  "in [someone's] backyard" is a colloquialism that refers to "those who are in that area"
alpha_squared 3mo ago
If I remember correctly, reporting at the time just after DC was selected was suggesting that it was always going to be DC to be in close proximity to government and that the whole fiasco was a way to extract as many concessions as possible from the city in its efforts to "compete" for the new offices. What even is an "HQ" if the actual headquarters that disproportionately houses more office workers than anywhere else is still in Seattle?
- jcranmer 3mo ago
  Hell, after the 'competition' was announced, many commentators observed that it was pretty much written with Arlington, VA in mind, and the competition was less a serious competition and more a ploy to try to get a lot of subsidies for what their plans already were. It's also worth noting that the bids that were accepted (Arlington and New York) were some of the most miserly bids.
bloppe 3mo ago
The biggest possible tax break is zero tax, which is what you get when they move out of state
- thinkingtoilet 3mo ago
  Again, it would have been a net loss for the city. So walking away with zero is a huge win.
  - bloppe 3mo ago
    How do you figure? Curious as to where the costs come from

dylan604 3mo ago

Once construction of a data center has completed, how many jobs will they actually be adding? It reminds me of the people saying that oil pipelines are good for jobs, but that's again only a temporary blip during construction. For data centers, for the sheer size of them, they are massively empty of people.

CodingJeebus 3mo ago
"Job growth" is such an easily manipulated metric by companies to score tax breaks from governments, especially for companies like Amazon that can claim "our warehouse will create X jobs" while developing autonomous warehouse technology that significantly cuts the number of actual jobs on the back end. Such tax breaks should be tied to auditable figures verifying that the corporation hired the number of people they claimed they would, but of course they would never agree to such terms.
- simbosambo 3mo ago
  [dead]
ecshafer 3mo ago
How many temporary and permanent jobs does an empty lot provide? Many temporary and a few permanent sounds much better.
- zerobees 3mo ago
  New York doesn't have many "empty lots". If it's agricultural land that's getting converted into datacenters, it probably supports a comparable number of temporary and permanent jobs per acre in the region's climate.
  - ecshafer 3mo ago
    Are you sure New York doesn't have many empty lots? I can go drive through Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo and find plenty. There's a ton of land that is not being farmed that are is fully of rocky, poor quality soil. The data centers weren't going to go into NYC, but upstate New York has plenty of space for Data Centers. Oswego has two power plants, and could use two more. Building is good.

rightbyte 3mo ago

Amazon wanted a deal that was just bad for NY.