8 ms·
Unless one choses to bargain. Perhaps collectively.
by d4mi3n 4mo ago
Unless one choses to bargain. Perhaps collectively.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- Avicebron 4mo ago[flagged]
- quadrifoliate 4mo agoI don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about how corporations are squeezing us, you are part of the problem.
- iteria 4mo agoEveryone talks about MLK, but no one points out that people were willing to listen because Malcom X was a looming threat if MLK failed. Yes vote, but the threat of violence is what makes voting a delighted option. That's why protests exist. They are reminders that peace is a choice. Violent revolution has merit when peaceful means break down. The rise of the guillotine jokes are the first time that people are losing faith in the peaceful option. We should hope that our leaders don't make most of use disillusioned with the idea of a peaceful transfer of power.
- cwillu 4mo ago[flagged]
- rapidaneurism 4mo agoFrance had revolution and guillotines, but the UK had a strong police force and good suppression.
- achierius 4mo agoThe UK didn't just repress its citizens, it ultimately caved to them. The voting reforms of the 19th century gave people essentially everything they wanted, at the time, and as a consequence when the rest of europe was going thru 1848 Britain was chilling. But just a few years beforehand there was legitimate fear that the government would be toppled by rioters! You can't judge centuries of history just by looking at the end result.
- ericd 4mo agoFor anyone thinking about going that way, I highly recommend listening to the Revolutions podcast series starting here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1wVvwnrBP2cVQrFf06RoO9 https://open.spotify.com/episode/1wVvwnrBP2cVQrFf06RoO9 It'll probably disabuse you of the idea that its a good way to get things done.
- kombookcha 4mo agoIt's never been a good way to get things done, but when you block off every other venue for change people will be much more willing to take a chance on a high risk option. Violent revolutions aren't usually the first thing people try. Democracies that arise by nonviolent revolution, do so in part due to the threat of what comes next if the nonviolent revolution is crushed. Because if you make sure placards and petitions don't work, it eventually won't be placards and petitions anymore. 'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable', and all that.
- ericd 4mo agoYeah, I get that it's a useful threat to back up the nonviolent options. I just don't think Americans have tried the nonviolent options wrt economics with any amount of real effort yet, and it's worrying/annoying to see people jumping to the nuclear option as soon as they personally hit a rough patch or start getting scared of one. When I've gone to local government meetings, I've generally been one of only a few without gray hair. The vast majority of working-age people seemingly can't be bothered to learn the basics about who's running in a non-presidential election, let alone go argue for the boring but extremely impactful things that would actually help people out. People need to put down the phones and put in some actual effort on fixing things before even jokingly advocating for something that would almost certainly be a mass casualty event. It's shameful.
- kombookcha 4mo agoI don't disagree. Local politics and unionizing are much more impactful than people realize.
- _doctor_love 4mo ago> Violent revolution has merit when peaceful means break down. Robespierre first entered the chat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror Then Napoleon followed. Make of it what you will. [EDIT: for the downvoters - the folks who got guillotined in France were definitely bad, but the Terror was very real and very awful. It tends to be a trend with the noble overthrowers that after the initial wins they then get excited to go lop the heads off anyone else that might have ever bothered them. Be careful what you wish for.]
- anigbrowl 4mo agoViolence has been very productive for the ruling class. Voting sounds nice but evidence abounds about the mendacity of politicians and their willingness to subvert or overrule voters' preferences if sufficient money or status is to be had. You can say 'well vote those people out if they ignore the voters' but once a new reality has set in the politicians often gainan incumbency advantageor have lined up a cushy post-retirement gig.
- vkou 4mo ago[dead]
- bandofthehawk 4mo agoViolence is not always counterproductive
- jchw 4mo agoI don't believe that activism actually generally works, and I am skeptical that voting works either. Don't get me wrong. I do vote, and I believe that voting and activism can work, and even still does for a variety of things. But as for fighting against forces of corruption and tyranny, I believe activism is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle. Any grassroots efforts are in a horribly asymmetric battle against well-funded adversaries that will come back every year everywhere without fail to get their opening. And any hope we had of limiting corporate interests in politics has been decimated in the U.S. basically since Citizen's United — not that I really believe there wouldn't have been some other workaround had that not happened. So yes, I believe grassroots activism largely doesn't work. The fact that the battle is so asymmetrical makes it even more asymmetrical by making people apathetic about and fatigued over activism, making it even less effective. But people often turn their heads when there's violence. Nobody wants violence, just like nobody wants to hit rock bottom. I believe truly that political violence is a very dark place that will be no fun for anyone involved that I personally do not want to be a part of in any way. But, it just is the case that things will get worse before they get ~~much worse~~ better. I see it as a question of if and not when until structural changes occur that durably improve upon the asymmetry of political activism. And in that case, it's not a matter of whether or not, it's a matter of getting it the hell over with. I don't know how the fuck these stupid Flock "safety" cameras got here, but I have a pretty good guess how they'll disappear.
- nekusar 4mo ago> I don't know how the fuck these stupid Flock "safety" cameras got here, but I have a pretty good guess how they'll disappear. Gee golly, I have no clue how the pole ended up being cut and the solar and cameras ended up smashed. Must'a been an "accident".
- llbeansandrice 4mo agoThose flock cameras arrived in many places in the US bc people did not show up to public city council meetings to oppose them, aka “activism”.
- achierius 4mo ago
- rickydroll 4mo agoSo you are saying that I shouldn't start my artisanal guillotine business? Believe me, I know what's on the ballot for the midterm in the state but it's not going to stop me from making dark snarky jokes.
- wombatpm 4mo agoMass produced and pre-staged. Think zipcar for guillotines pre positioned in finance districts and rich neighborhoods.
- rickydroll 4mo agoThat would make one hell of an art project.
- nekusar 4mo ago[flagged]
- dlev_pika 4mo agoI mean, it’s not something anonymous edgy twitter accounts have come up with. There is ample historic precedence on the trend. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Jefferson
- mcmcmc 4mo agoHow is it hyperbolic when it’s human history?
- doublepg23 4mo agoQuoting a tweet: “People on twitter will really be like ‘you believe in voting? that pales in effectiveness to my strategy, firebombing a Walmart’ and then not firebomb a Walmart”
- slg 4mo agoRevolutions don't start with violence. People talk about it first.