8 ms·

Man i love last.fm even though it's been technically superseded (for most people) by Spotify's recommendation features. It just fit so well in the zeitgeist of

by ale 4mo ago

Man i love last.fm even though it's been technically superseded (for most people) by Spotify's recommendation features. It just fit so well in the zeitgeist of 2000's indie scene, microblogs, early social media.

tfrancisl 4mo ago
I use it with Spotify to track my listens and sort by artist, album and the like. It definitely still has value, even for Spotify users!
- mjr00 4mo ago
  Yep, member since May 21 2005 here, still scrobbling with Spotify. Don't think I've ever used any of the radio features on the site, really; even back in the 00s all I used were the WinAmp/Foobar plug-ins.
tuvix 4mo ago
I would argue it’s still unparalleled for recommendations
alejoar 4mo ago
I just think it's beautiful that I can see all the music I've listened to since 2005 (back when it was still called Audioscrobbler, before the Last.fm rename). And I never stopped scrobbling in all that time! I love these kinds of stats and being able to see how my taste has changed across more than 20 years, since I was a teenager. I do miss the old community forums they had integrated back in the day, though.
- alejoar 4mo ago
  I just remembered that I met one of my best friends to this day through Last.fm. It was 2009 or so, and you could leave messages on concert pages. I posted asking if anyone wanted to go with me since I didn't want to go alone, and she sent me a message. Good times.
- wyclif 4mo ago
  As a long-time user, I do enjoy seeing how my tastes have changed over the years and which artists and albums I play the most. I also tend to agree that the Last.fm recommendation engine was perfectly fine for my use case compared to the algo that Spotify uses now. https://www.last.fm/user/wyclif https://www.last.fm/user/wyclif
- tclancy 4mo ago
  Same. I have one or more gaps in there which I wish I could go back and correct. I feel like integration with the service is a must for any music thing I pick up, the most recent being this year, resurrecting my old iTunes library via Navidrome.
- apocalyptic0n3 4mo ago
  I second this. I started as an Audioscrobbler user before the Last.fm merger. I have tracked nearly every track I've listened to for 21 years. It's awesome seeing how my habits have changed over the years.
- bool3max 4mo ago
  I love clicking on a random person's profile and seeing that they're actively using the account (as in, I can see they're currently listening to a specific song!) they've had for 20+ years. So cool.
fusslo 4mo ago
I've felt a serious reduction in quality of recommendations from spotify the past couple years. Maybe I'll try last.fm
- swatcoder 4mo ago
  More than a feeling. Pretty much all the machine learning recommendation engines that emerged in the Netflix era were doomed to collapse under their own weight over time for non-mainstream users because the some limited number of mainstream modes dominate as most statistically "optimal" across the total user pool. These algorithms are best in the early days, when they're still exploring the content space for good novel fits but eventually get trapped into deep, boring grooves that work really well for tons of non-discriminating users with similar tastes. Separately, in real commercial terms, they're all fundamentally poisoned by business model objectives of highlighting cheap content or servicing partnership/advertising deals, etc. And that problem also becomes more and more prominent as the companies running them grow and become more influential and as they need to squeeze harder and harder for revenue growth. It was basically just a long, winding, wildly expensive road back to broadcast radio programming. It was a good run for a while, but we're long due for a new model.
  - rrix2 4mo ago
    The sad thing is that before Spotify bought the Echo Nest[1], they had hosted some of the coolest discovery demos for non-mainstream (in my case ambient/IDM) where you would feed it a youtube video URL and it would make a really compelling radio playlist based off it. i found so many artists i still listen to today by just sticking a video in there in the morning and coming back to the tab when something incredible popped up. When Spotify bought TEN i considered moving my listening over, but the radio button we ended up with in Spotify and Youtube Music are huge disappointments in comparison, so corporatist and flattened to 1.5 dimensions, I always wondered how the magic was lost. Bandcamp's feed (especially once you trick the UI in to showing you how to follow tags) is usually interesting to leave running but limited in its own way by the artist pool lacking mainstream tentpoles to jump off of. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Echo_Nest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Echo_Nest
  - 4mo ago
wldcordeiro 4mo ago
I don't think the recommendation engines behind Spotify, Youtube Music, etc compare to the recommendations I got from last.fm over the years. The algorithmic ones seem to have a bunch of issues that bug me as a long time music listener and someone with a large music library. - their memory is short as hell so you can listen to something for a while, stop and then it'll suggest it to you later as something to "discover" - they are way too biased towards recently listened music and will replay things over and over if you're not actively managing your queues. - because they're so based on what you have listened to (recently) they suggest things that are extremely obvious music no one is "discovering" - they suggest the "top" songs from artists, albums, etc, it's very hard to get it to play a "deep cut" - if you have a large library you'll inevitably hit playlist song limits and other things silently. Each service handles this differently, Youtube Music seemingly kicks things out of my library or liked playlists each time I add something else. I've literally just gotten in the habit of never using the autoplay features and just starting whole albums from start to finish again because the algorithms annoy me so much. Youtube Music has been getting worse about it too where now it often ignores the music you chose to start a playlist and starts playing things you've listened to recently regardless of it doesn't match the genre/vibe at all.
- AlexandrB 4mo ago
  I'm 90% sure that music labels pay to "put their thumbs on the scales" with these recommendation algorithms in order to push their "hot" artists. I wonder how many of these problems are a result of that.
  - komali2 4mo ago
    We can never know for sure if this is or isn't the case, so our only hope for stuff we can be confident isn't this way is with foss / self host able solutions
    - dylan604 4mo ago
      Using the historical record that they absolutely did this, there is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not now doing this.
comboy 4mo ago
Spotify recommendations are biased because user incentive and theirs don't align. They pay different royalties to different artists, they optimize earnings. Also, they take money to promote music and shove it down your throat.
- SwellJoe 4mo ago
  And, they're starting to push AI music into recommendations, as well. Their incentives are not aligned with users or artists. The major labels were previously pretty OK with the situation, as they had a negotiating advantage against indies and could get better deals for their catalog, but I guess they'll come to regret that deal with the devil.
al_borland 4mo ago
I’ve completely given up on recommendation engines from streaming services. It feels like they’re only good for creating background noise, not for helping me find music I actually want to listen to. I’ve gone back to a very 90s approach. If I like a song from an artist, I check out the album. If I hear about an artist or album from someone, I listen to do. I’m also currently making my way through a list of the top 500 albums of all time to find some gems that I missed along the way. A streaming service is helpful for this to avoid spending a fortune or collecting a lot of music I don’t end up liking, but I treat the service more like a store. Apple Music works great for this, while Spotify and YouTube Music were a bit of a mess.
jghn 4mo ago
One problem for me with Spotify and similar is that I don't use them. I want to be able to track what I've listened to but I only use my own, personal library via iTunes, not Apple Music. Perhaps I'm wrong and some of these other services will track that but I don't have any desire to use the full on streaming services.
- aorth 4mo ago
  You could scrobble to Last.fm or ListenBrainz to track your personal library listens.
  - jghn 4mo ago
    Yes, I use last.fm. My mistake, thought I said that. Instead I just launched into my anti-streaming bit :)
chrsw 4mo ago
I loved how easy it was to scrobble from different music services. Haven't used it in years though so I have no idea if that's still the case. Stuff like that usually rots because it's not making someone money.
- skerit 4mo ago
  It is. It's super easy to do so. You can send anything via the API.
bool3max 4mo ago
For me last.fm's value lies in the community aspect: you can leave a comment on any artist, album, or individual track's page. There's not a single other place on the internet where I can go to to see what the people think of a song I'm listening to at any given moment (apart from perhaps YouTube, but we all know what the comments there are like - last.fm attracts a more sophisticated crowd by nature). Unfortunately they have recently taken a rather drastic step towards undermining this community aspect of the site by gating the comment (or "shout", as they call it) box behind a "SEE WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING BUTTON". Previously the top 5-10 comments would by default be visible on every artist/album/track page, but now there's an extra level of indirection you've go to go through to see or post comments. The move was never justified despite the vocal community's outrage on their forums [1], but I suspect it's got something to do with the site's poor performance, as previously comments failed to load about 30% of the time. Strange, yeah. I've cancelled my Pro subscription a while ago as a result, but I'm excited to see what their independence from Paramount will bring. [1]: https://support.last.fm/t/artist-shoutbox/117534 https://support.last.fm/t/artist-shoutbox/117534
- ilikegreen 4mo ago
  I think RateYourMusic also allows for commenting pretty much on everything (and it also extends to film and, IIRC, videogames). It might not be as friendly as last.fm on the surface, but it is surely richer in content, and more diverse. It's a gem, and I hope Sonemnic (?) doesn't drive it to the ground.
  - bool3max 4mo ago
    For me it doesn't really compare: with Last.FM all I've gotta do is navigate to my profile and the song I'm _currently_ playing on Spotify is right at the top, I just click it and boom, I'm on the track's page. Besides, you can't leave comments under specific tracks on RYM.
  - BoingBoomTschak 4mo ago
    > I hope Sonemnic (?) doesn't drive it to the ground. It already has. Between the worst kind of Reddit tier moderation, the extreme anti-scraping measure affecting humans (can only access album pages from artist pages here, I get 503 errors otherwise) and the hiding of its forum from public view, it's already lying on said ground.
TZubiri 4mo ago
The advantage of last.fm is that it doesn't host the content, so it doesn't shape the music you listen to like using Netflix would shape the content you watch, it's content neutral.
a1o 4mo ago
Wasn’t it more like SoundCloud? I never used last.fm but I always assumed it was more like SoundCloud. It’s been a few years I don’t use SoundCloud though.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
stingraycharles 4mo ago
I’m proud to say that I’m still using it, connected through Spotify! 23 years and counting, and it pretty much captured 100% of my listening activity. It’s a gimmick, but a nice gimmick to have and to be able to look up my music taste over time.
_AzMoo 4mo ago
I find the current recommendations from spotify or youtube music don't actually help me find new music very well. They just end up shoehorning me, instead of widening my options.

by ale 4mo ago

tfrancisl 4mo ago

I use it with Spotify to track my listens and sort by artist, album and the like. It definitely still has value, even for Spotify users!

mjr00 4mo ago
Yep, member since May 21 2005 here, still scrobbling with Spotify. Don't think I've ever used any of the radio features on the site, really; even back in the 00s all I used were the WinAmp/Foobar plug-ins.

tuvix 4mo ago

I would argue it’s still unparalleled for recommendations

alejoar 4mo ago

I just think it's beautiful that I can see all the music I've listened to since 2005 (back when it was still called Audioscrobbler, before the Last.fm rename). And I never stopped scrobbling in all that time! I love these kinds of stats and being able to see how my taste has changed across more than 20 years, since I was a teenager. I do miss the old community forums they had integrated back in the day, though.

alejoar 4mo ago
I just remembered that I met one of my best friends to this day through Last.fm. It was 2009 or so, and you could leave messages on concert pages. I posted asking if anyone wanted to go with me since I didn't want to go alone, and she sent me a message. Good times.
wyclif 4mo ago
As a long-time user, I do enjoy seeing how my tastes have changed over the years and which artists and albums I play the most. I also tend to agree that the Last.fm recommendation engine was perfectly fine for my use case compared to the algo that Spotify uses now. https://www.last.fm/user/wyclif https://www.last.fm/user/wyclif
tclancy 4mo ago
Same. I have one or more gaps in there which I wish I could go back and correct. I feel like integration with the service is a must for any music thing I pick up, the most recent being this year, resurrecting my old iTunes library via Navidrome.
apocalyptic0n3 4mo ago
I second this. I started as an Audioscrobbler user before the Last.fm merger. I have tracked nearly every track I've listened to for 21 years. It's awesome seeing how my habits have changed over the years.
bool3max 4mo ago
I love clicking on a random person's profile and seeing that they're actively using the account (as in, I can see they're currently listening to a specific song!) they've had for 20+ years. So cool.

fusslo 4mo ago

I've felt a serious reduction in quality of recommendations from spotify the past couple years. Maybe I'll try last.fm

swatcoder 4mo ago
More than a feeling. Pretty much all the machine learning recommendation engines that emerged in the Netflix era were doomed to collapse under their own weight over time for non-mainstream users because the some limited number of mainstream modes dominate as most statistically "optimal" across the total user pool. These algorithms are best in the early days, when they're still exploring the content space for good novel fits but eventually get trapped into deep, boring grooves that work really well for tons of non-discriminating users with similar tastes. Separately, in real commercial terms, they're all fundamentally poisoned by business model objectives of highlighting cheap content or servicing partnership/advertising deals, etc. And that problem also becomes more and more prominent as the companies running them grow and become more influential and as they need to squeeze harder and harder for revenue growth. It was basically just a long, winding, wildly expensive road back to broadcast radio programming. It was a good run for a while, but we're long due for a new model.
- rrix2 4mo ago
  The sad thing is that before Spotify bought the Echo Nest[1], they had hosted some of the coolest discovery demos for non-mainstream (in my case ambient/IDM) where you would feed it a youtube video URL and it would make a really compelling radio playlist based off it. i found so many artists i still listen to today by just sticking a video in there in the morning and coming back to the tab when something incredible popped up. When Spotify bought TEN i considered moving my listening over, but the radio button we ended up with in Spotify and Youtube Music are huge disappointments in comparison, so corporatist and flattened to 1.5 dimensions, I always wondered how the magic was lost. Bandcamp's feed (especially once you trick the UI in to showing you how to follow tags) is usually interesting to leave running but limited in its own way by the artist pool lacking mainstream tentpoles to jump off of. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Echo_Nest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Echo_Nest
- 4mo ago

wldcordeiro 4mo ago

I don't think the recommendation engines behind Spotify, Youtube Music, etc compare to the recommendations I got from last.fm over the years. The algorithmic ones seem to have a bunch of issues that bug me as a long time music listener and someone with a large music library. - their memory is short as hell so you can listen to something for a while, stop and then it'll suggest it to you later as something to "discover" - they are way too biased towards recently listened music and will replay things over and over if you're not actively managing your queues. - because they're so based on what you have listened to (recently) they suggest things that are extremely obvious music no one is "discovering" - they suggest the "top" songs from artists, albums, etc, it's very hard to get it to play a "deep cut" - if you have a large library you'll inevitably hit playlist song limits and other things silently. Each service handles this differently, Youtube Music seemingly kicks things out of my library or liked playlists each time I add something else. I've literally just gotten in the habit of never using the autoplay features and just starting whole albums from start to finish again because the algorithms annoy me so much. Youtube Music has been getting worse about it too where now it often ignores the music you chose to start a playlist and starts playing things you've listened to recently regardless of it doesn't match the genre/vibe at all.

AlexandrB 4mo ago
I'm 90% sure that music labels pay to "put their thumbs on the scales" with these recommendation algorithms in order to push their "hot" artists. I wonder how many of these problems are a result of that.
- komali2 4mo ago
  We can never know for sure if this is or isn't the case, so our only hope for stuff we can be confident isn't this way is with foss / self host able solutions
  - dylan604 4mo ago
    Using the historical record that they absolutely did this, there is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not now doing this.

comboy 4mo ago

Spotify recommendations are biased because user incentive and theirs don't align. They pay different royalties to different artists, they optimize earnings. Also, they take money to promote music and shove it down your throat.

SwellJoe 4mo ago
And, they're starting to push AI music into recommendations, as well. Their incentives are not aligned with users or artists. The major labels were previously pretty OK with the situation, as they had a negotiating advantage against indies and could get better deals for their catalog, but I guess they'll come to regret that deal with the devil.

al_borland 4mo ago

I’ve completely given up on recommendation engines from streaming services. It feels like they’re only good for creating background noise, not for helping me find music I actually want to listen to. I’ve gone back to a very 90s approach. If I like a song from an artist, I check out the album. If I hear about an artist or album from someone, I listen to do. I’m also currently making my way through a list of the top 500 albums of all time to find some gems that I missed along the way. A streaming service is helpful for this to avoid spending a fortune or collecting a lot of music I don’t end up liking, but I treat the service more like a store. Apple Music works great for this, while Spotify and YouTube Music were a bit of a mess.

jghn 4mo ago

One problem for me with Spotify and similar is that I don't use them. I want to be able to track what I've listened to but I only use my own, personal library via iTunes, not Apple Music. Perhaps I'm wrong and some of these other services will track that but I don't have any desire to use the full on streaming services.

aorth 4mo ago
You could scrobble to Last.fm or ListenBrainz to track your personal library listens.
- jghn 4mo ago
  Yes, I use last.fm. My mistake, thought I said that. Instead I just launched into my anti-streaming bit :)

chrsw 4mo ago

I loved how easy it was to scrobble from different music services. Haven't used it in years though so I have no idea if that's still the case. Stuff like that usually rots because it's not making someone money.

skerit 4mo ago
It is. It's super easy to do so. You can send anything via the API.

bool3max 4mo ago

For me last.fm's value lies in the community aspect: you can leave a comment on any artist, album, or individual track's page. There's not a single other place on the internet where I can go to to see what the people think of a song I'm listening to at any given moment (apart from perhaps YouTube, but we all know what the comments there are like - last.fm attracts a more sophisticated crowd by nature). Unfortunately they have recently taken a rather drastic step towards undermining this community aspect of the site by gating the comment (or "shout", as they call it) box behind a "SEE WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING BUTTON". Previously the top 5-10 comments would by default be visible on every artist/album/track page, but now there's an extra level of indirection you've go to go through to see or post comments. The move was never justified despite the vocal community's outrage on their forums [1], but I suspect it's got something to do with the site's poor performance, as previously comments failed to load about 30% of the time. Strange, yeah. I've cancelled my Pro subscription a while ago as a result, but I'm excited to see what their independence from Paramount will bring. [1]: https://support.last.fm/t/artist-shoutbox/117534 https://support.last.fm/t/artist-shoutbox/117534

ilikegreen 4mo ago
I think RateYourMusic also allows for commenting pretty much on everything (and it also extends to film and, IIRC, videogames). It might not be as friendly as last.fm on the surface, but it is surely richer in content, and more diverse. It's a gem, and I hope Sonemnic (?) doesn't drive it to the ground.
- bool3max 4mo ago
  For me it doesn't really compare: with Last.FM all I've gotta do is navigate to my profile and the song I'm _currently_ playing on Spotify is right at the top, I just click it and boom, I'm on the track's page. Besides, you can't leave comments under specific tracks on RYM.
- BoingBoomTschak 4mo ago
  > I hope Sonemnic (?) doesn't drive it to the ground. It already has. Between the worst kind of Reddit tier moderation, the extreme anti-scraping measure affecting humans (can only access album pages from artist pages here, I get 503 errors otherwise) and the hiding of its forum from public view, it's already lying on said ground.

TZubiri 4mo ago

The advantage of last.fm is that it doesn't host the content, so it doesn't shape the music you listen to like using Netflix would shape the content you watch, it's content neutral.

a1o 4mo ago

Wasn’t it more like SoundCloud? I never used last.fm but I always assumed it was more like SoundCloud. It’s been a few years I don’t use SoundCloud though.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

stingraycharles 4mo ago

I’m proud to say that I’m still using it, connected through Spotify! 23 years and counting, and it pretty much captured 100% of my listening activity. It’s a gimmick, but a nice gimmick to have and to be able to look up my music taste over time.

_AzMoo 4mo ago

I find the current recommendations from spotify or youtube music don't actually help me find new music very well. They just end up shoehorning me, instead of widening my options.