6 ms·

> So if you wanna fix or ban PE, solve pensions. We solved pensions. People have defined-contribution plans now. I would expect insurance float to dwarf pensio

by derf_ 4mo ago

> So if you wanna fix or ban PE, solve pensions. We solved pensions. People have defined-contribution plans now. I would expect insurance float to dwarf pensions as a source of PE funding. The real reason PE exists is because it charges high fees. The financial industry does not make products to serve customer needs, though by happy accident that sometimes happens. It makes products to charge fees. Index funds removed a big chunk of the fees that active mutual funds used to charge, so financiers went looking for a replacement. Even if you snapped your fingers and all remaining pensions (and insurance float?) disappeared, PE is aggressively going after individual retirement accounts, now. Most insidiously, trying to work their way into the "target date" funds that are the defaults for most plans. So "solving pensions" will not make PE go away.

MichaelZuo 4mo ago
Huh? Don’t many jobs still have gold plated pensions? Like millions upon millions? They need to be paid out somehow.
- nemomarx 4mo ago
  Looks like about 18 percent, although I would assume there's a particular demographic where this might be higher. Do they have to be paid out in full, though? I remember cases in the past where a company went bankrupt and had to renege on some parts of pensions, so maybe you'll see that again?
  - MichaelZuo 4mo ago
    After some percentage are reneged… there would still be a strongly motivated bloc of considerable size? I don’t see how it is relevant, unless the rate is close to 100%.
- ryukoposting 4mo ago
  > many jobs... millions upon millions ...no. It doesn't even matter what the rest of the words in the question are. Just no, lol. > They need to be paid out somehow. No they don't. Lots of pensions, especially the not-gilded ones, go bankrupt. In fact, that's precisely what happens to pensions of companies that are acquired by PE. The company gets stripped for parts, it goes bankrupt, and PBGC covers a fraction of the affected pensioners' payouts. In other words, with or without PE, bloated pensions ultimately end up being the taxpayer's burden.
  - MichaelZuo 4mo ago
    Are you confused? Why are you replying to a comment where you believe the words “doesn’t even matter”?
  - iboisvert 4mo ago
    > bloated pensions I find this characterization offensive. Who is to judge if the defined benefit pension if a primary school teacher or fireman, for example, is bloated? It's part of the negotiated pay package, nothing more or less.
    - throwforfeds 4mo ago
      At least here in NYC, a large part of a NYPD officer's pension is calculated based on a 3-year look back from their retirement date, so there is a huge incentive to work as much overtime as possible in order to bump that number in your last few years of service. There are lots of stories of NYPD handing out easy overtime in massive numbers for each other, particularly when they are about to retire. Teachers are the easy ones to point to, it is hard to be mad at an underpaid teacher who receives a reasonable pension for life. We certainly can be mad at NYPD scamming the system to get $100-200k/year for life. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-pay/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-... [2] https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/newly-retired-nypd-retirees-average-100000-in-pension/ https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/newly-retired-nypd...
      - freejazz 4mo ago
        All seem trivial compared to the money sucked up by billionaires, who seem to do little good for society. I'm not going to get angry at a police officer trying to maximize their retirement when we live in a society that celebrates people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg.
        u_fucking_dork 4mo ago
        Two things can be bad, you don’t have to pick.
- CGMthrowaway 4mo ago
  Government jobs, yes. Of which there are more and more every year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
  - simonsarris 4mo ago
    true but be sure to see `All Employees, Government/Population` https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1WF5r https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1WF5r
    - jjfoooo4 4mo ago
      Down from 10 years ago, down quite a bit from 20 years ago
  - blactuary 4mo ago
    Raw totals instead of population-adjusted? Come on

by derf_ 4mo ago

MichaelZuo 4mo ago

Huh? Don’t many jobs still have gold plated pensions? Like millions upon millions? They need to be paid out somehow.

nemomarx 4mo ago
Looks like about 18 percent, although I would assume there's a particular demographic where this might be higher. Do they have to be paid out in full, though? I remember cases in the past where a company went bankrupt and had to renege on some parts of pensions, so maybe you'll see that again?
- MichaelZuo 4mo ago
  After some percentage are reneged… there would still be a strongly motivated bloc of considerable size? I don’t see how it is relevant, unless the rate is close to 100%.
ryukoposting 4mo ago
> many jobs... millions upon millions ...no. It doesn't even matter what the rest of the words in the question are. Just no, lol. > They need to be paid out somehow. No they don't. Lots of pensions, especially the not-gilded ones, go bankrupt. In fact, that's precisely what happens to pensions of companies that are acquired by PE. The company gets stripped for parts, it goes bankrupt, and PBGC covers a fraction of the affected pensioners' payouts. In other words, with or without PE, bloated pensions ultimately end up being the taxpayer's burden.
- MichaelZuo 4mo ago
  Are you confused? Why are you replying to a comment where you believe the words “doesn’t even matter”?
- iboisvert 4mo ago
  > bloated pensions I find this characterization offensive. Who is to judge if the defined benefit pension if a primary school teacher or fireman, for example, is bloated? It's part of the negotiated pay package, nothing more or less.
  - throwforfeds 4mo ago
    At least here in NYC, a large part of a NYPD officer's pension is calculated based on a 3-year look back from their retirement date, so there is a huge incentive to work as much overtime as possible in order to bump that number in your last few years of service. There are lots of stories of NYPD handing out easy overtime in massive numbers for each other, particularly when they are about to retire. Teachers are the easy ones to point to, it is hard to be mad at an underpaid teacher who receives a reasonable pension for life. We certainly can be mad at NYPD scamming the system to get $100-200k/year for life. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-pay/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-... [2] https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/newly-retired-nypd-retirees-average-100000-in-pension/ https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/newly-retired-nypd...
    - freejazz 4mo ago
      All seem trivial compared to the money sucked up by billionaires, who seem to do little good for society. I'm not going to get angry at a police officer trying to maximize their retirement when we live in a society that celebrates people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg.
      - u_fucking_dork 4mo ago
        Two things can be bad, you don’t have to pick.
CGMthrowaway 4mo ago
Government jobs, yes. Of which there are more and more every year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT
- simonsarris 4mo ago
  true but be sure to see `All Employees, Government/Population` https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1WF5r https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1WF5r
  - jjfoooo4 4mo ago
    Down from 10 years ago, down quite a bit from 20 years ago
- blactuary 4mo ago
  Raw totals instead of population-adjusted? Come on