6 ms·

Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

39 points by MiguelX413 5mo ago

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
SilverElfin 5mo ago
[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5mo ago
  Agreed. My town has a homeless problem. They say they need beds so the town adds beds and now we get homeless from all the other towns coming in. Comparatively few of our homeless are from here.
  - Schiendelman 5mo ago
    Do be careful. Everyone claims that, but it's almost always something like 80% local in every place that measures.
    - SilverElfin 5mo ago
      The measurements are always wrong. Volunteers tell people to lie on the point in time surveys so programs supporting them (or claiming to support them) keep getting funding. In the west coast cities the majority are from elsewhere and it’s easy to confirm if you actually talk to some of them and learn more about the backgrounds of people at the camp. They are there because not only are they tolerated and can break the law without consequences, but they also get free needles to help their habit.
      - FireBeyond 5mo ago
        > but they also get free needles to help their habit They're not getting free needles to "help their habit", they're getting them so they don't re-use or share. Because what's more difficult to help than an addict? An addict with a communicable, potentially fatal, illness. I am an ex-paramedic. I've lost track of the number of times I've administered narcan, gone to ODs, seen the sheer disaster of cotton fever (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23528959/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23528959/). Free needles isn't encouraging people to keep their habit going, it's a means of not adding one more route to death's door.
        archagon 5mo ago
        The boiling, unspoken subtext to anti-homeless vitriol is often “well, they should just die then.” On occasion, they actually say it out loud: https://endhomelessness.org/media/news-releases/national-alliance-to-end-homelessness-calls-for-immediate-firing-of-fox-news-anchor-over-calls-for-execution-of-people-experiencing-homelessness/ https://endhomelessness.org/media/news-releases/national-all...
        archagon 5mo ago
        Also, the fact that FireBeyond's comment is downvoted is a massive indictment of this community. They said absolutely nothing worth downvoting for. The hatred for the homeless is sickening.
      - Schiendelman 5mo ago
        Thinking you can confirm something statistical by talking to random people on the street is a lot of the problem with politics. Show me evidence of your claims.
- archagon 5mo ago
  So an unhoused person has to either go to prison (accomplishing what?) or go to some “treatment” camp in the woods and pay for it (using what money?!) Excuse me, but what the fuck? Which part of this helps them get out of their shitty situation instead of basically sticking them in a concentration camp indefinitely? And what if they don’t have a drug problem? What will they be “treated” for at this remote location? I think the only thing that can be earnestly said to this is “fuck this inhuman shit.” Anyone who supports this program has willingly torn chunks from their soul and thrown them in the gutter.
  - FireBeyond 5mo ago
    > and pay for it (using what money?!) Just like Florida. Get arrested and spend any time in jail, and the state will start charging you $85/day. Oh, released without charge? Charges dropped or case dismissed? Found not guilty? Florida doesn't care, they're sending you a bill anyway. And if you don't pay it? Class B Felony, my friend. Warrants issued. And so it goes.
- Ar-Curunir 5mo ago
  How does this actually stop homelessness? Most homeless people, if you fine them money, won't exactly be able to find housing more easily. Similarly, if you imprison them, they aren't suddenly able to find a job more easily.
  - bombcar 5mo ago
    At least if they’re imprisoned they’re no longer homeless
  - Schiendelman 5mo ago
    Most people experiencing homelessness are approached repeatedly by workers hoping to get them into programs that will provide them work, housing, mental healthcare. There's a lot of complexity, like people who appear homeless but do have a place to sleep, but appear mentally ill. For the most part, people in these situations are not looking for work or housing.
    - soraminazuki 5mo ago
      So what, if you lose your job, you can just sleep on the street and employers will line up to hire you? That sounds ridiculous.
      - adampunk 5mo ago
        People tell themselves crazy lies because the truth--that they're just a few coin flips from the same fate--is scary.
        FireBeyond 5mo ago
        I am an EMS instructor, and ex-paramedic. I remember a quote from my instructor, once upon a time, about judgment of the homeless, particularly the drug-addicted. "You can question the choices that led them there, but that ship has sailed. The truth of it is if your life consisted of things like looking for food in public garbage cans amongst cigarette butts, bird shit, that had been rained on, that you were reduced to using alleyways to go to the bathroom, newspaper (if you can even find that) to wipe, then it's quite likely that you too would "choose" to retreat to a gorked out haze to escape the emotional pain of that existence. I know I certainly would."
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  all of the money we spend of department of “defense” and we get a President begging at 2:00am on social media for some canal to be opened, maybe we start there are reduce that budget by like 95% first
syoleene 5mo ago
> Those who are convicted of sleeping outdoors could be given the option to avoid jail time by instead entering into a mandatory treatment program for at least 12 months. The bill authorizes local governments to set up semi-permanent camps in remote areas, where defendants would be required to stay and receive treatment. So basically state funded mandatory rehab for everyone ?
- xrd 5mo ago
  Doesn't the article say they have to pay for it themselves?
  - silverquiet 5mo ago
    arbeit macht frei
    - sidewndr46 5mo ago
      While your quote is meant to be snarky, my understanding is that sign isn't at Dachau any longer
      - FireBeyond 5mo ago
        It seems strange that they removed the sign after the fact. Unless it was to prevent theft. Copperhead Road in Johnson County TN (that Copperhead Road) is now known as Copperhead Hollow Road for that reason.
        sidewndr46 5mo ago
        I'm pretty sure it was stolen, then apparently found in a parking lot in Norway. I don't know if they ever got around to putting the real one back up
- red-iron-pine 5mo ago
  > semi-permanent camps they're just building concentration camps and they're camps, not even buildings or treatment facilities. that's gonna get ugly in LA in the summer
Gabriel54 5mo ago
There is homelessness, and then there is drug and/or alcohol addiction. > Those who are convicted of sleeping outdoors could be given the option to avoid jail time by instead entering into a mandatory treatment program for at least 12 months. What happens if someone is homeless and not addicted to drugs or alcohol? Why assume everyone who is homeless is also an addict? It seems entirely reasonable that someone homeless AND addicted to drugs/alcohol should be required to enter into a treatment program.
- archagon 5mo ago
  The American mindset: “if they’re homeless, they clearly did something wrong and/or deserve it.”
  - Gabriel54 5mo ago
    I certainly do not agree with that. My point is that this article itself conflates homelessness and addiction, which I think is a serious error.
    - Schiendelman 5mo ago
      What specific information makes you think that?
    - archagon 5mo ago
      I know. I mean this is the mindset that causes this conflation in the first place.
  - xrd 5mo ago
    Right, despite the biggest cause of homelessness: medical debt.
    - nslsm 5mo ago
      Citation needed.
xrd 5mo ago
[flagged]
- dnemmers 5mo ago
  If you’re wondering why you’re getting downvoted, we’d like to hear from you, not Gemini.
metalman 5mo ago
many places have resorted to giving homeless people money and or casual labour for there city/town, a very large percentage then unfortunately get stabilised and re oriented into productive roles and are no longer able to be monitised by the legal/beurocratic industrial complex
bibimsz 5mo ago
henceforth know as The Big Difficult
red-iron-pine 5mo ago
funny how all of the most christian places (e.g. the deep south) are often the least christian
insane_dreamer 5mo ago
> The bill requires homeless defendants to pay “all or part of the cost of the treatment program to which he is assigned,” ... the average cost for residential drug and alcohol rehab treatment in Louisiana is more than $4,400 per week > According to the bill, those who cannot afford this steep cost would be required to perform unpaid labor for the state or a local community center in lieu of payment. WTAF? So if you're homeless you are forced to a rehabilitation center (that part isn't so bad in itself) but for which you bear the cost of, and since you have no money (or you wouldn't be homeless), you have to become an indentured servant for a very long time.

39 points by MiguelX413 5mo ago

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

SilverElfin 5mo ago

[flagged]

2OEH8eoCRo0 5mo ago
Agreed. My town has a homeless problem. They say they need beds so the town adds beds and now we get homeless from all the other towns coming in. Comparatively few of our homeless are from here.
- Schiendelman 5mo ago
  Do be careful. Everyone claims that, but it's almost always something like 80% local in every place that measures.
  - SilverElfin 5mo ago
    The measurements are always wrong. Volunteers tell people to lie on the point in time surveys so programs supporting them (or claiming to support them) keep getting funding. In the west coast cities the majority are from elsewhere and it’s easy to confirm if you actually talk to some of them and learn more about the backgrounds of people at the camp. They are there because not only are they tolerated and can break the law without consequences, but they also get free needles to help their habit.
    - FireBeyond 5mo ago
      > but they also get free needles to help their habit They're not getting free needles to "help their habit", they're getting them so they don't re-use or share. Because what's more difficult to help than an addict? An addict with a communicable, potentially fatal, illness. I am an ex-paramedic. I've lost track of the number of times I've administered narcan, gone to ODs, seen the sheer disaster of cotton fever (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23528959/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23528959/). Free needles isn't encouraging people to keep their habit going, it's a means of not adding one more route to death's door.
      - archagon 5mo ago
        The boiling, unspoken subtext to anti-homeless vitriol is often “well, they should just die then.” On occasion, they actually say it out loud: https://endhomelessness.org/media/news-releases/national-alliance-to-end-homelessness-calls-for-immediate-firing-of-fox-news-anchor-over-calls-for-execution-of-people-experiencing-homelessness/ https://endhomelessness.org/media/news-releases/national-all...
        archagon 5mo ago
        Also, the fact that FireBeyond's comment is downvoted is a massive indictment of this community. They said absolutely nothing worth downvoting for. The hatred for the homeless is sickening.
    - Schiendelman 5mo ago
      Thinking you can confirm something statistical by talking to random people on the street is a lot of the problem with politics. Show me evidence of your claims.
archagon 5mo ago
So an unhoused person has to either go to prison (accomplishing what?) or go to some “treatment” camp in the woods and pay for it (using what money?!) Excuse me, but what the fuck? Which part of this helps them get out of their shitty situation instead of basically sticking them in a concentration camp indefinitely? And what if they don’t have a drug problem? What will they be “treated” for at this remote location? I think the only thing that can be earnestly said to this is “fuck this inhuman shit.” Anyone who supports this program has willingly torn chunks from their soul and thrown them in the gutter.
- FireBeyond 5mo ago
  > and pay for it (using what money?!) Just like Florida. Get arrested and spend any time in jail, and the state will start charging you $85/day. Oh, released without charge? Charges dropped or case dismissed? Found not guilty? Florida doesn't care, they're sending you a bill anyway. And if you don't pay it? Class B Felony, my friend. Warrants issued. And so it goes.
Ar-Curunir 5mo ago
How does this actually stop homelessness? Most homeless people, if you fine them money, won't exactly be able to find housing more easily. Similarly, if you imprison them, they aren't suddenly able to find a job more easily.
- bombcar 5mo ago
  At least if they’re imprisoned they’re no longer homeless
- Schiendelman 5mo ago
  Most people experiencing homelessness are approached repeatedly by workers hoping to get them into programs that will provide them work, housing, mental healthcare. There's a lot of complexity, like people who appear homeless but do have a place to sleep, but appear mentally ill. For the most part, people in these situations are not looking for work or housing.
  - soraminazuki 5mo ago
    So what, if you lose your job, you can just sleep on the street and employers will line up to hire you? That sounds ridiculous.
    - adampunk 5mo ago
      People tell themselves crazy lies because the truth--that they're just a few coin flips from the same fate--is scary.
      - FireBeyond 5mo ago
        I am an EMS instructor, and ex-paramedic. I remember a quote from my instructor, once upon a time, about judgment of the homeless, particularly the drug-addicted. "You can question the choices that led them there, but that ship has sailed. The truth of it is if your life consisted of things like looking for food in public garbage cans amongst cigarette butts, bird shit, that had been rained on, that you were reduced to using alleyways to go to the bathroom, newspaper (if you can even find that) to wipe, then it's quite likely that you too would "choose" to retreat to a gorked out haze to escape the emotional pain of that existence. I know I certainly would."
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
bdangubic 5mo ago
all of the money we spend of department of “defense” and we get a President begging at 2:00am on social media for some canal to be opened, maybe we start there are reduce that budget by like 95% first

syoleene 5mo ago

> Those who are convicted of sleeping outdoors could be given the option to avoid jail time by instead entering into a mandatory treatment program for at least 12 months. The bill authorizes local governments to set up semi-permanent camps in remote areas, where defendants would be required to stay and receive treatment. So basically state funded mandatory rehab for everyone ?

xrd 5mo ago
Doesn't the article say they have to pay for it themselves?
- silverquiet 5mo ago
  arbeit macht frei
  - sidewndr46 5mo ago
    While your quote is meant to be snarky, my understanding is that sign isn't at Dachau any longer
    - FireBeyond 5mo ago
      It seems strange that they removed the sign after the fact. Unless it was to prevent theft. Copperhead Road in Johnson County TN (that Copperhead Road) is now known as Copperhead Hollow Road for that reason.
      - sidewndr46 5mo ago
        I'm pretty sure it was stolen, then apparently found in a parking lot in Norway. I don't know if they ever got around to putting the real one back up
red-iron-pine 5mo ago
> semi-permanent camps they're just building concentration camps and they're camps, not even buildings or treatment facilities. that's gonna get ugly in LA in the summer

Gabriel54 5mo ago

There is homelessness, and then there is drug and/or alcohol addiction. > Those who are convicted of sleeping outdoors could be given the option to avoid jail time by instead entering into a mandatory treatment program for at least 12 months. What happens if someone is homeless and not addicted to drugs or alcohol? Why assume everyone who is homeless is also an addict? It seems entirely reasonable that someone homeless AND addicted to drugs/alcohol should be required to enter into a treatment program.

archagon 5mo ago
The American mindset: “if they’re homeless, they clearly did something wrong and/or deserve it.”
- Gabriel54 5mo ago
  I certainly do not agree with that. My point is that this article itself conflates homelessness and addiction, which I think is a serious error.
  - Schiendelman 5mo ago
    What specific information makes you think that?
  - archagon 5mo ago
    I know. I mean this is the mindset that causes this conflation in the first place.
- xrd 5mo ago
  Right, despite the biggest cause of homelessness: medical debt.
  - nslsm 5mo ago
    Citation needed.

xrd 5mo ago

[flagged]

dnemmers 5mo ago
If you’re wondering why you’re getting downvoted, we’d like to hear from you, not Gemini.

metalman 5mo ago

many places have resorted to giving homeless people money and or casual labour for there city/town, a very large percentage then unfortunately get stabilised and re oriented into productive roles and are no longer able to be monitised by the legal/beurocratic industrial complex

bibimsz 5mo ago

henceforth know as The Big Difficult

red-iron-pine 5mo ago

funny how all of the most christian places (e.g. the deep south) are often the least christian

insane_dreamer 5mo ago

> The bill requires homeless defendants to pay “all or part of the cost of the treatment program to which he is assigned,” ... the average cost for residential drug and alcohol rehab treatment in Louisiana is more than $4,400 per week > According to the bill, those who cannot afford this steep cost would be required to perform unpaid labor for the state or a local community center in lieu of payment. WTAF? So if you're homeless you are forced to a rehabilitation center (that part isn't so bad in itself) but for which you bear the cost of, and since you have no money (or you wouldn't be homeless), you have to become an indentured servant for a very long time.