7 ms·

When a model can tell funny jokes or write good poetry, that's when I'll be concerned.

by CreepGin 5mo ago

hephaes7us 5mo ago
I mean, I'm sure they can tell you good jokes... they just won't be _new_ jokes.
- kruffalon 5mo ago
  Define _new_. I just think that the difficulty with jokes is the delivery, cadence & setting. Not the actual words. I'm sure a good comedian can tell a nonsense joke and make "everyone" laugh their heads off. And I don't get the sense that you are referring to this part of jokes but rather the actual words.
  - wutwutwat 5mo ago
    Why are you asking someone to define "new". It means exactly what it appears to mean and exactly what it always means. Read the sentence and take it literally. Jesus Christ.
    - kruffalon 5mo ago
      Because I'm actually curious if they mean "new" as in "a new knock-knock joke" (which imo is a quite small step especially if you are allowed to screen all attempts and only publish the ones that work) or as "a new kind of joke or way of telling a joke" (which is a giant step especially if it's told live without pre-screening by a human). I'm all for dismissing LLMs and the AI-hype but I'm also interested in trying to understand what it means to be human and I think humour is a key aspect.
- CamperBob2 5mo ago
  The jokes I posted in this thread are new, to the best of my knowledge. Can you show that they're not?
robkop 5mo ago
one of their highlights with mythos was it's ability to generate new puns I took a look and honestly they're the first AI puns that aren't bad Times are changing
- doubled112 5mo ago
  Trained with the conversations of one million dads and their kids, captured by Amazon Echo.
- Zafira 5mo ago
  > Although Claude Opus models largely recycle puns which can be found online, Mythos Preview comes up with decent and seemingly novel ones, often relating to its preferred technical and philosophical topics. Yes, the system card mentions this, but this is kinda meaningless. It seems like they essentially ran it multiple times and curated a few good ones. Then puffed it up in the marketing copy. This is made more clear when they attempt to brag about their literal slot machine behavior when finding that kernel crashing bug in OpenBSD. > Across a thousand runs through our scaffold, the total cost was under $20,000 and found several dozen more findings. While the specific run that found the bug above cost under $50, that number only makes sense with full hindsight. Like any search process, we can’t know in advance which run will succeed.
- CreepGin 5mo ago
  I'm not sure if this is mythos-specific though. Past models have been great at puns! They do wordplay and puns reasonably well because those are structural. However, the concepts of comedic timing, subversion of expectations, and emotional punch are kinda contrary to how LLMs work. LLMs are trained to minimize cross-entropy loss. So by construction, they're biased toward the statistically expected.
CamperBob2 5mo ago
No, you'll just say "That's not really very funny," or "That's not very impressive poetry," and nobody will be able to dispute it. For some time now, at least a year, LLMs have been capable of doing both of these things well enough to fool you. (Pastebin of my response below, which got nuked for whatever reason: https://pastebin.com/buJBSgiq https://pastebin.com/buJBSgiq . Some if not most of them would've fooled me into thinking a human wrote them.)
- VanTheBrand 5mo ago
  Okay post a really funny LLM joke about potatoes and post a great piece of LLM poetry about lemons. I’ll wait. You should be able to do it quickly though since LLMs are so good at it.
  - defrost 5mo ago
    CamperBob2 responded with a model comparison of potato jokes and got insta-[dead]'d by an auto filter. Maybe turn on [show dead] option and / or vouch.
    - allarm 5mo ago
      > responded And the results are just awful.
      - defrost 5mo ago
        Hell yeah, no argument there - but in this case I wouldn't advocate for [dead]ing a mostly AI response as it was exactly what was asked for and it compares AI models when asked for potato based dad jokes.
      - CamperBob2 5mo ago
        Of course they're awful, they're jokes about potatoes and poems about lemons. The question is, can you tell that a machine wrote all of them? If so, how?
5alsp 5mo ago
Yes, they cannot. But it amuses the oligarchy. Here is Musk linking to Grok jokes. The first one is plagiarized and in the standard joke literature, the second one is an utterly stupid and gross (warning) modification of the first one: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/2042770839633039635#m https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/2042770839633039635#m They modify and plagiarize.

When a model can tell funny jokes or write good poetry, that's when I'll be concerned.

hephaes7us 5mo ago

I mean, I'm sure they can tell you good jokes... they just won't be _new_ jokes.

kruffalon 5mo ago
Define _new_. I just think that the difficulty with jokes is the delivery, cadence & setting. Not the actual words. I'm sure a good comedian can tell a nonsense joke and make "everyone" laugh their heads off. And I don't get the sense that you are referring to this part of jokes but rather the actual words.
- wutwutwat 5mo ago
  Why are you asking someone to define "new". It means exactly what it appears to mean and exactly what it always means. Read the sentence and take it literally. Jesus Christ.
  - kruffalon 5mo ago
    Because I'm actually curious if they mean "new" as in "a new knock-knock joke" (which imo is a quite small step especially if you are allowed to screen all attempts and only publish the ones that work) or as "a new kind of joke or way of telling a joke" (which is a giant step especially if it's told live without pre-screening by a human). I'm all for dismissing LLMs and the AI-hype but I'm also interested in trying to understand what it means to be human and I think humour is a key aspect.
CamperBob2 5mo ago
The jokes I posted in this thread are new, to the best of my knowledge. Can you show that they're not?

robkop 5mo ago

one of their highlights with mythos was it's ability to generate new puns I took a look and honestly they're the first AI puns that aren't bad Times are changing

doubled112 5mo ago
Trained with the conversations of one million dads and their kids, captured by Amazon Echo.
Zafira 5mo ago
> Although Claude Opus models largely recycle puns which can be found online, Mythos Preview comes up with decent and seemingly novel ones, often relating to its preferred technical and philosophical topics. Yes, the system card mentions this, but this is kinda meaningless. It seems like they essentially ran it multiple times and curated a few good ones. Then puffed it up in the marketing copy. This is made more clear when they attempt to brag about their literal slot machine behavior when finding that kernel crashing bug in OpenBSD. > Across a thousand runs through our scaffold, the total cost was under $20,000 and found several dozen more findings. While the specific run that found the bug above cost under $50, that number only makes sense with full hindsight. Like any search process, we can’t know in advance which run will succeed.
CreepGin 5mo ago
I'm not sure if this is mythos-specific though. Past models have been great at puns! They do wordplay and puns reasonably well because those are structural. However, the concepts of comedic timing, subversion of expectations, and emotional punch are kinda contrary to how LLMs work. LLMs are trained to minimize cross-entropy loss. So by construction, they're biased toward the statistically expected.

CamperBob2 5mo ago

No, you'll just say "That's not really very funny," or "That's not very impressive poetry," and nobody will be able to dispute it. For some time now, at least a year, LLMs have been capable of doing both of these things well enough to fool you. (Pastebin of my response below, which got nuked for whatever reason: https://pastebin.com/buJBSgiq https://pastebin.com/buJBSgiq . Some if not most of them would've fooled me into thinking a human wrote them.)

VanTheBrand 5mo ago
Okay post a really funny LLM joke about potatoes and post a great piece of LLM poetry about lemons. I’ll wait. You should be able to do it quickly though since LLMs are so good at it.
- defrost 5mo ago
  CamperBob2 responded with a model comparison of potato jokes and got insta-[dead]'d by an auto filter. Maybe turn on [show dead] option and / or vouch.
  - allarm 5mo ago
    > responded And the results are just awful.
    - defrost 5mo ago
      Hell yeah, no argument there - but in this case I wouldn't advocate for [dead]ing a mostly AI response as it was exactly what was asked for and it compares AI models when asked for potato based dad jokes.
    - CamperBob2 5mo ago
      Of course they're awful, they're jokes about potatoes and poems about lemons. The question is, can you tell that a machine wrote all of them? If so, how?

5alsp 5mo ago

Yes, they cannot. But it amuses the oligarchy. Here is Musk linking to Grok jokes. The first one is plagiarized and in the standard joke literature, the second one is an utterly stupid and gross (warning) modification of the first one: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/2042770839633039635#m https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/2042770839633039635#m They modify and plagiarize.