5 ms·

Would you say we're worse than China these days (if so, what % of the time did China help Ukraine in the conflict)?

by pedroma 6mo ago

jacquesm 6mo ago
Both China and the USA have made many moves that benefit Putin. I would say neither party is a friend of Ukraine. China plays its own long games and the USA is being run by madmen. Why do I have to prefer one over the other? I don't like the way either is behaving on the world stage, and each for different reasons.
- pedroma 6mo ago
  >Why do I have to prefer one over the other? I don't like the way either is behaving on the world stage, and each for different reasons. This is the perfect encapsulation of what I mean in my original response to you. This IS the popular European sentiment. And this is what is off-putting to many Americans. The weight of China and the US is not even worth preference, despite the US having contributed positively to the Ukrainian conflict and European defense. We are not even WORTHY of being placed above China, we're either just as bad or worse is the typical response I see.
  - jacquesm 6mo ago
    You seem to be completely out of touch with the way the USA has been behaving towards the EU as of late, maybe get with the times and then report back. Last I checked China hasn't threatened to take over either Canada or Greenland, has not started any major wars for which they expect the EU to pay for cleaning up their mess, has reasonably sane leadership and on top of that has been a fairly trustworthy business partner that does not engage in whim driven economic warfare. They also have a bunch of very dark sides that I am going to assume we are all familiar with. I really wonder why you think that the USA should be given a free pass for what it has done in the last decade. And that's before we get into human rights issues and other 'details'. Comparing yourself to China is not the flex you think it is. Your bio says that "Farming negative karma is not trolling when you're expressing your honest views." and that's all fine, you have a right to your honest views but if they're indistinguishable from trolling to the point that you feel you need to pre-empt that classification then maybe HN is not the place for you?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
      I think that one of the reasons for this "popular European sentiment" is the purely emotional one - it's emotionally more affecting when someone who was a close friend starts behaving badly towards you, than when someone who was a colleague with no close relationship remains thus. The the popular European sentiment is understandable and IMHO correct though. Saying "it's off-putting" is no in way a coherent argument that it's wrong.
      - jacquesm 6mo ago
        Indeed, it is breaking trust.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
    > This IS the popular European sentiment. And this is what is off-putting to many Americans. You're not saying that it's wrong though. Just that you don't like it. So what, that means nothing. It's not wrong. Rejecting reality because it's "off-putting" will not help you.
  - watwut 6mo ago
    Europe has oil crisis right now because of an illegal war USA started, not because of China. Also, China did not locked accounts of international court justices, it was USA. One of these two countries is an unpredictable threat and danger right now. The other is predictable threat in the future.
    - u8080 6mo ago
      >illegal war LOL
      - watwut 6mo ago
        Yes, international law exists and this war is illegal. Simple as that.
        u8080 6mo ago
        EU is so high on bureaucracy they unironically believe their "international" facade organizations legitimate mass killings.
- pedroma 6mo ago
  The reply chain got too long so I will respond here. >You seem to be completely out of touch with the way the USA has been behaving towards the EU as of late, maybe get with the times and then report back. Last I checked China hasn't threatened to take over either Canada or Greenland, has not started any major wars for which they expect the EU to pay for cleaning up their mess, has reasonably sane leadership and on top of that has been a fairly trustworthy business partner that does not engage in whim driven economic warfare. They also have a bunch of very dark sides that I am going to assume we are all familiar with. I'm aware of everything you've said. What I've noticed is Europeans just like to bash on the US given any reason. My original point is (proven by the exact quote of your words) that this type of European sentiment is accelerating a two-sided voluntary parting. Nothing much more than that. I am not defending the US's actions. >Comparing yourself to China is not the flex you think it is. Once again you are proving my point. Europeans are typically not willing to place the US above China. Any attempt to get them to do so will provoke this type of response. >Your bio says that "Farming negative karma is not trolling when you're expressing your honest views." and that's all fine, you have a right to your honest views but if they're indistinguishable from trolling to the point that you feel you need to pre-empt that classification then maybe HN is not the place for you? Calling me a troll is just an attack on me and not my argument. That's ok though, no offense taken. The bio is provocation for people who dig into people's profiles. I don't like to do that. I just take the person's posts as is.
  - jacquesm 6mo ago
    > Europeans are typically not willing to place the US above China. This is not a scalar, it is a multi-dimensional array with tons of values that all individually can be ranked. One some of these the USA is better than China on others it is definitely not. You may want to collapse that all to a single 'but we're better' picture but that is just not how the world works. > The bio is provocation for people who dig into people's profiles. I don't like to do that. I just take the person's posts as is. And that's not true either because you clearly checked my account upthread to link it to Europe.
    - pedroma 6mo ago
Quarrelsome 6mo ago
I would suggest that China are currently a more reliable partner than the US because of their predictability, given that I cannot be sure whether or not this statement alone might result in a change of tariffs for my nation at the whim of America's king. I'm still looking for congress in all of this (did they ever even approve this war in Iran?!?) but idk if the republic is a thing anymore or not.
- pedroma 6mo ago
  Yeah I can see that. The other poster is right about it being multi-faceted. My question is intentionally somewhat provocative. It forces someone to pick between two bad options, and I always gain respect for people who decide to pick one instead of intentionally avoiding it and just saying "oh they're both bad, idk".
  - Quarrelsome 6mo ago
    hopefully this will all start to settle down around the end of this year if congress gets its teeth back and hopefully by the end of 2028. If it doesn't.... well then I despair, as the world I once knew is over. Already within the subreddits of my nation there is an increasingly dismissive attitude to the historic alliances that kept us safe for around the last hundred years and I can't blame them. Especially if Hormuz remains blocked and the US just walks away leaving this pile of sick of its own creation on the floor. I imagine a new rather loose coalition might rise of such a status quo and its possible that China becomes a major player in that, given its likely desire as a major manufacturer to keep trade open and shipping flowing, which is the opposite of what the US has been doing since 2025.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
    > It forces someone to pick between two bad options, and I always gain respect for people who decide to pick one instead of intentionally avoiding it IDK, if someone sees that a question is bullshit and refuses to play along with it, you lose respect for them? This is not a heuristic that will help you in life.

Would you say we're worse than China these days (if so, what % of the time did China help Ukraine in the conflict)?

by pedroma 6mo ago

Would you say we're worse than China these days (if so, what % of the time did China help Ukraine in the conflict)?

Both China and the USA have made many moves that benefit Putin. I would say neither party is a friend of Ukraine. China plays its own long games and the USA is being run by madmen. Why do I have to prefer one over the other? I don't like the way either is behaving on the world stage, and each for different reasons.

pedroma 6mo ago
>Why do I have to prefer one over the other? I don't like the way either is behaving on the world stage, and each for different reasons. This is the perfect encapsulation of what I mean in my original response to you. This IS the popular European sentiment. And this is what is off-putting to many Americans. The weight of China and the US is not even worth preference, despite the US having contributed positively to the Ukrainian conflict and European defense. We are not even WORTHY of being placed above China, we're either just as bad or worse is the typical response I see.
- jacquesm 6mo ago
  You seem to be completely out of touch with the way the USA has been behaving towards the EU as of late, maybe get with the times and then report back. Last I checked China hasn't threatened to take over either Canada or Greenland, has not started any major wars for which they expect the EU to pay for cleaning up their mess, has reasonably sane leadership and on top of that has been a fairly trustworthy business partner that does not engage in whim driven economic warfare. They also have a bunch of very dark sides that I am going to assume we are all familiar with. I really wonder why you think that the USA should be given a free pass for what it has done in the last decade. And that's before we get into human rights issues and other 'details'. Comparing yourself to China is not the flex you think it is. Your bio says that "Farming negative karma is not trolling when you're expressing your honest views." and that's all fine, you have a right to your honest views but if they're indistinguishable from trolling to the point that you feel you need to pre-empt that classification then maybe HN is not the place for you?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
    I think that one of the reasons for this "popular European sentiment" is the purely emotional one - it's emotionally more affecting when someone who was a close friend starts behaving badly towards you, than when someone who was a colleague with no close relationship remains thus. The the popular European sentiment is understandable and IMHO correct though. Saying "it's off-putting" is no in way a coherent argument that it's wrong.
    - jacquesm 6mo ago
      Indeed, it is breaking trust.
- SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
  > This IS the popular European sentiment. And this is what is off-putting to many Americans. You're not saying that it's wrong though. Just that you don't like it. So what, that means nothing. It's not wrong. Rejecting reality because it's "off-putting" will not help you.
- watwut 6mo ago
  Europe has oil crisis right now because of an illegal war USA started, not because of China. Also, China did not locked accounts of international court justices, it was USA. One of these two countries is an unpredictable threat and danger right now. The other is predictable threat in the future.
  - u8080 6mo ago
    >illegal war LOL
    - watwut 6mo ago
      Yes, international law exists and this war is illegal. Simple as that.
      - u8080 6mo ago
        EU is so high on bureaucracy they unironically believe their "international" facade organizations legitimate mass killings.
pedroma 6mo ago
The reply chain got too long so I will respond here. >You seem to be completely out of touch with the way the USA has been behaving towards the EU as of late, maybe get with the times and then report back. Last I checked China hasn't threatened to take over either Canada or Greenland, has not started any major wars for which they expect the EU to pay for cleaning up their mess, has reasonably sane leadership and on top of that has been a fairly trustworthy business partner that does not engage in whim driven economic warfare. They also have a bunch of very dark sides that I am going to assume we are all familiar with. I'm aware of everything you've said. What I've noticed is Europeans just like to bash on the US given any reason. My original point is (proven by the exact quote of your words) that this type of European sentiment is accelerating a two-sided voluntary parting. Nothing much more than that. I am not defending the US's actions. >Comparing yourself to China is not the flex you think it is. Once again you are proving my point. Europeans are typically not willing to place the US above China. Any attempt to get them to do so will provoke this type of response. >Your bio says that "Farming negative karma is not trolling when you're expressing your honest views." and that's all fine, you have a right to your honest views but if they're indistinguishable from trolling to the point that you feel you need to pre-empt that classification then maybe HN is not the place for you? Calling me a troll is just an attack on me and not my argument. That's ok though, no offense taken. The bio is provocation for people who dig into people's profiles. I don't like to do that. I just take the person's posts as is.
- jacquesm 6mo ago
  > Europeans are typically not willing to place the US above China. This is not a scalar, it is a multi-dimensional array with tons of values that all individually can be ranked. One some of these the USA is better than China on others it is definitely not. You may want to collapse that all to a single 'but we're better' picture but that is just not how the world works. > The bio is provocation for people who dig into people's profiles. I don't like to do that. I just take the person's posts as is. And that's not true either because you clearly checked my account upthread to link it to Europe.
  - pedroma 6mo ago

Quarrelsome 6mo ago

I would suggest that China are currently a more reliable partner than the US because of their predictability, given that I cannot be sure whether or not this statement alone might result in a change of tariffs for my nation at the whim of America's king. I'm still looking for congress in all of this (did they ever even approve this war in Iran?!?) but idk if the republic is a thing anymore or not.

pedroma 6mo ago
Yeah I can see that. The other poster is right about it being multi-faceted. My question is intentionally somewhat provocative. It forces someone to pick between two bad options, and I always gain respect for people who decide to pick one instead of intentionally avoiding it and just saying "oh they're both bad, idk".
- Quarrelsome 6mo ago
  hopefully this will all start to settle down around the end of this year if congress gets its teeth back and hopefully by the end of 2028. If it doesn't.... well then I despair, as the world I once knew is over. Already within the subreddits of my nation there is an increasingly dismissive attitude to the historic alliances that kept us safe for around the last hundred years and I can't blame them. Especially if Hormuz remains blocked and the US just walks away leaving this pile of sick of its own creation on the floor. I imagine a new rather loose coalition might rise of such a status quo and its possible that China becomes a major player in that, given its likely desire as a major manufacturer to keep trade open and shipping flowing, which is the opposite of what the US has been doing since 2025.
- SideburnsOfDoom 6mo ago
  > It forces someone to pick between two bad options, and I always gain respect for people who decide to pick one instead of intentionally avoiding it IDK, if someone sees that a question is bullshit and refuses to play along with it, you lose respect for them? This is not a heuristic that will help you in life.