6 ms·

What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down.

miroljub 6mo ago
The fact that it has to be repeatedly fended off and that the EU regime still tries to push it is a prime example of lobbying^H corruption. They won't give up until they pass. What more do you need?
- munksbeer 6mo ago
  > that the EU regime still tries to push it Sorry, what is this "EU regime"? I'm not understanding the logic in your post. The people pushing it are certain elected officials of member nations.
  - miroljub 6mo ago
    I use the same terminology for EU officials that they themselves use when they describe corrupt regimes with low legitimacy they don't control.
    - munksbeer 6mo ago
      Ok, but the EU officials are not the ones that keep pushing the chat control agenda. This is coming from certain MPs from the member states.
timmmmmmay 6mo ago
"repeatedly struck down" means somebody keeps bringing it back
- dotandgtfo 6mo ago
  They're proposals by a minority. I'd like to see it go to see chat control go to grave permanently, but I'd also rather not that the democratic system allows for the permanent barring an impossible to define class of proposals from even being proposed. Or do you have other solutions?
  - jonathanstrange 6mo ago
    I'm definitely for creating EU directives that enhances digital privacy rights and sovereignty to block whole classes of privacy-endangering surveillance proposals in the future. That seems like the best solution to me. It's much better than allowing those proposals to be made again and again until they are passed in some shady package deal. Even if such a proposal is struck down by local laws, constitutions, or the ECHR, once they have the foot in the door, they will only be modified minimally to comply with the constitution.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
latexr 6mo ago
> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down. So far. But they’ll keep lobbying and we’ll need to keep fighting. > What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? Digital Omnibus is another. https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-removed-real-business-needs https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-remove... https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digital-omnibus-reflects-key-lobbying-messaging-from-large-tech-companies-ngo-analysis-claims/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digit...
- dotandgtfo 6mo ago
  > We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. This implies that regulation is codified. The clear pattern of EU digital regulation doomerism is generally pointing at shitty proposals which aren't approved and codified in law. Digital omnibus is another proposal. If "rammed and rushed laws" is legitimately a widespread issue, you should be able to find a good example of something codified which is not just a proposal? I'm not saying we don't have to fight. But vocal opposition to proposals which ultimately don't make it into law is the system working exactly as intended.
  - latexr 6mo ago
    You’re replying to the wrong person. The point you’re quoting was made further upstream.
hagbard_c 6mo ago
> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down. They can try as often as they want and they only have to win once. We - as in those who don't want this Orwellian monster to be written into law - have to win all the time.
- ozlikethewizard 6mo ago
  Right but thats just the system working as intended? Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.
  - miroljub 6mo ago
    > Right but thats just the system working as intended? No, it is a one way street and thus creates an imbalance. EU regimes never push new legislation that gives more rights to their citizens, only try to limit them again and again. > Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Gay marriage is a good example. It got passed despite being unpopular. In many countries where it was pushed by force from above, from the EU to the national level, it is still unpopular. > Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones. The issue with democracy as we have it in the EU is the imbalance of power and responsibility. Given the EU regime's decisions in the last few decades, I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.
    - orwin 6mo ago
      I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist, and directives (accompanied by fines) is the main way for the EU to try to push laws on states (the other way if having a citizen go the the EUCJ against his own state, but that almost never ends in law changes). > I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime. Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?
deaux 6mo ago
https://noyb.eu/en/project/dpa/dpc-ireland https://noyb.eu/en/project/dpa/dpc-ireland GDPR is entirely unenforced, it's not worth the paper it's written on, and this is due to lobbying. The situation continues to this day. The DPAs simply throw reports of violations into the trash bin. It's hilariously transparent - Ireland recently (less than 6 months ago) added a former _Meta lobbyist_ to their DPA board [0]. US Big Tech is now spending a record €151 million per year on lobbying the EU [1], and it's completely implausible to believe they're doing that with 0 RoI. "The number of digital lobbyists has risen from 699 to 890 full-time equivalents (FTEs), surpassing the 720 Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). A total of 437 lobbyists now have continuous access to the European Parliament. Three meetings per day: Big Tech held an average of three lobbying meetings a day in the first half of 2025, which speaks volumes about their level of access to EU policymakers." It's impossible that this doesn't influence things. [0] https://noyb.eu/en/former-meta-lobbyist-named-dpc-commissioner-meta-now-officially-regulates-itself https://noyb.eu/en/former-meta-lobbyist-named-dpc-commission... [1] https://corporateeurope.org/en/2025/10/revealed-tech-industry-now-spending-record-eu151-million-lobbying-eu https://corporateeurope.org/en/2025/10/revealed-tech-industr...
- GJim 6mo ago
  > GDPR is entirely unenforced, The fact that in the UK/EU no reputable company is now sharing data without our explicit opt-in permission suggests you are talking bollocks. As for disreputable companies.... don't do business with them!
- saithir 6mo ago
  Extending one organization's results to saying "completely unenforced" is definitely something, considering the ~billion of fines per year.

miroljub 6mo ago

The fact that it has to be repeatedly fended off and that the EU regime still tries to push it is a prime example of lobbying^H corruption. They won't give up until they pass. What more do you need?

munksbeer 6mo ago
> that the EU regime still tries to push it Sorry, what is this "EU regime"? I'm not understanding the logic in your post. The people pushing it are certain elected officials of member nations.
- miroljub 6mo ago
  I use the same terminology for EU officials that they themselves use when they describe corrupt regimes with low legitimacy they don't control.
  - munksbeer 6mo ago
    Ok, but the EU officials are not the ones that keep pushing the chat control agenda. This is coming from certain MPs from the member states.

timmmmmmay 6mo ago

"repeatedly struck down" means somebody keeps bringing it back

dotandgtfo 6mo ago
They're proposals by a minority. I'd like to see it go to see chat control go to grave permanently, but I'd also rather not that the democratic system allows for the permanent barring an impossible to define class of proposals from even being proposed. Or do you have other solutions?
- jonathanstrange 6mo ago
  I'm definitely for creating EU directives that enhances digital privacy rights and sovereignty to block whole classes of privacy-endangering surveillance proposals in the future. That seems like the best solution to me. It's much better than allowing those proposals to be made again and again until they are passed in some shady package deal. Even if such a proposal is struck down by local laws, constitutions, or the ECHR, once they have the foot in the door, they will only be modified minimally to comply with the constitution.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

latexr 6mo ago

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down. So far. But they’ll keep lobbying and we’ll need to keep fighting. > What examples of this do you have in recent years (post 2016)? Digital Omnibus is another. https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-removed-real-business-needs https://noyb.eu/en/gdpr-omnibus-eu-simplification-far-remove... https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digital-omnibus-reflects-key-lobbying-messaging-from-large-tech-companies-ngo-analysis-claims/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/eu-digit...

dotandgtfo 6mo ago
> We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. This implies that regulation is codified. The clear pattern of EU digital regulation doomerism is generally pointing at shitty proposals which aren't approved and codified in law. Digital omnibus is another proposal. If "rammed and rushed laws" is legitimately a widespread issue, you should be able to find a good example of something codified which is not just a proposal? I'm not saying we don't have to fight. But vocal opposition to proposals which ultimately don't make it into law is the system working exactly as intended.
- latexr 6mo ago
  You’re replying to the wrong person. The point you’re quoting was made further upstream.

hagbard_c 6mo ago

> The clearest example of lobbying (chat control) has repeatedly been struck down. They can try as often as they want and they only have to win once. We - as in those who don't want this Orwellian monster to be written into law - have to win all the time.

ozlikethewizard 6mo ago
Right but thats just the system working as intended? Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.
- miroljub 6mo ago
  > Right but thats just the system working as intended? No, it is a one way street and thus creates an imbalance. EU regimes never push new legislation that gives more rights to their citizens, only try to limit them again and again. > Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Gay marriage is a good example. It got passed despite being unpopular. In many countries where it was pushed by force from above, from the EU to the national level, it is still unpopular. > Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones. The issue with democracy as we have it in the EU is the imbalance of power and responsibility. Given the EU regime's decisions in the last few decades, I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.
  - orwin 6mo ago
    I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist, and directives (accompanied by fines) is the main way for the EU to try to push laws on states (the other way if having a citizen go the the EUCJ against his own state, but that almost never ends in law changes). > I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime. Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

deaux 6mo ago

https://noyb.eu/en/project/dpa/dpc-ireland https://noyb.eu/en/project/dpa/dpc-ireland GDPR is entirely unenforced, it's not worth the paper it's written on, and this is due to lobbying. The situation continues to this day. The DPAs simply throw reports of violations into the trash bin. It's hilariously transparent - Ireland recently (less than 6 months ago) added a former _Meta lobbyist_ to their DPA board [0]. US Big Tech is now spending a record €151 million per year on lobbying the EU [1], and it's completely implausible to believe they're doing that with 0 RoI. "The number of digital lobbyists has risen from 699 to 890 full-time equivalents (FTEs), surpassing the 720 Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). A total of 437 lobbyists now have continuous access to the European Parliament. Three meetings per day: Big Tech held an average of three lobbying meetings a day in the first half of 2025, which speaks volumes about their level of access to EU policymakers." It's impossible that this doesn't influence things. [0] https://noyb.eu/en/former-meta-lobbyist-named-dpc-commissioner-meta-now-officially-regulates-itself https://noyb.eu/en/former-meta-lobbyist-named-dpc-commission... [1] https://corporateeurope.org/en/2025/10/revealed-tech-industry-now-spending-record-eu151-million-lobbying-eu https://corporateeurope.org/en/2025/10/revealed-tech-industr...

GJim 6mo ago
> GDPR is entirely unenforced, The fact that in the UK/EU no reputable company is now sharing data without our explicit opt-in permission suggests you are talking bollocks. As for disreputable companies.... don't do business with them!
saithir 6mo ago
Extending one organization's results to saying "completely unenforced" is definitely something, considering the ~billion of fines per year.