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I'm not american, but it seems to me there are enough american job seekers in CS to justify not needing H1B. I'm not sure anyway what is the relationship betwe
by rat9988 8mo ago
I'm not american, but it seems to me there are enough american job seekers in CS to justify not needing H1B.
I'm not sure anyway what is the relationship between the potential difficulty of hiring new folks, and firing current folks in USA to offshore roles, are relates.
- adamsb6 8mo agoThere's not a surplus of American developers that can pass interview loops at top tech employers.
- varjag 8mo agoQuality outcomes of top tech employers are still somehow lacklustre despite all that.
- Xirdus 8mo agoThey are creating this very surplus by firing 16,000 people who already did. And that's on top of all the mass firings last year.
- Sevii 8mo agoFAANG has been engaged in mass layoffs for two years now. How can you possibly make the claim that there is a surplus of people who can pass the interview loops? Obviously, there isn't because they are firing people who passed those loops.
- drecked 8mo agoYou’re ignoring the part where FAANG massively overhired in the years preceding. Meta and Amazon doubled their headcount in the 2-3 years of the pandemic. Others like Google increased by 60+%. You’re also forgetting about this little thing popularly called AI that happened in the intervening years. There may be an argument that H1B isn’t fit to purpose in a post AI world (although that argument is also false if we think software engineering will remain a viable job going forward, but that’s a different topic). But it’s much harder to argue that H1B hurt US employers when thr industry they hired the majority of H1B employees in the first 2 decades of the 2000s, also saw some of the highest growth in jobs while simultaneously posting the highest growth in salaries (there may have been certain minor industries hiring a few thousand people, like Oceanographer that had a slightly higher increase, but even that was likely not true because BLS data doesn’t factor compensation in the form of stock options which disproportionally provided wealth for SW engineers relative to other workers).
- johnnyanmac 8mo ago>You’re ignoring the part where FAANG massively overhired in the years preceding. Yes, because overhiring is a lie generated to justify layoffs. I'd hope by year 3 that we'd see through this. If they "overhired", why is hiring still up globally while down in the US? >You’re also forgetting about this little thing popularly called AI that happened in the intervening years. What about it? Hiring numbers are still up. Its clearly not replacing workers as of now.
- eli_gottlieb 8mo agoThen why all the layoffs? You don't fire people you've got a shortage of.
- VirusNewbie 8mo agoOk, then hire them on an O-1 visa. H1B is the problem as it creates a indentured servitude class that is going to work for less.
- SilverElfin 8mo agoH1B workers cost more on average than permanent residents. That’s just based on salary. Once you account for the fees and legal costs and risks of the immigration process, H1B workers are way more expensive. Also, these visas can be transferred between companies. There’s no such thing as an indentured servitude class here - this is just part of the giant racist misinformation machine of the right, to make it seem like shutting it down would somehow be doing those employees a favor. In reality it’ll hurt the entire country.
- jujube3 8mo agoNone of what you're saying is related to what the parent post is saying at all. He's saying, if the immigrants are exceptional, they should be on an O-1 visa, which is specifically designed for exceptional people. If they're not exceptional, then why not hire an unemployed American worker instead? H1B supposedly is designed to address "shortages", but there are no actual shortages.
- toomuchtodo 8mo agohttps://layoffs.fyi/ https://layoffs.fyi/ The domestic talent exists, and companies can leverage it or be punished financially for attempting to “contain labor costs” through leveraging visa workers.
- ProllyInfamous 8mo agoThe "problem" is that you have to compensate natives better / treatment.
- yodsanklai 8mo ago> there are enough american job seekers in CS to justify not needing H1B. As an interviewer in a big tech company, it seems all candidates I interview are foreigners who often graduated in the US. Either the company discriminates (which I really doubt it does), or there aren't enough qualified Americans for some jobs. And even if there are, the largest pool of candidates, the better.
- pickleRick243 8mo agoBetter for whom?
- mattnewton 8mo agoBusinesses, the consumers who buy their products, and the global workforce.
- eli_gottlieb 8mo agoThe global workforce benefits from higher salaries and higher demand for labor, not from zero- or negative-sum moves of jobs from one place to another.
- snerbles 8mo agoThe company itself might not discriminate as a policy, but some hiring managers certainly have their preferences. Or exclusively pull talent from their overseas cousin's brother's spouse's college roommate's consulting firm that is most certainly not a grift.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- zdragnar 8mo agoBig tech companies are biased to sourcing from big name universities that have a lot of foreign students, and big tech companies were much more likely to go through the effort of H1B than smaller companies. As such your candidate pool is more heavily skewed than elsewhere.
- waynesonfire 8mo agoJust look at the open roles for these companies, all India. They're not hiding it. Don't even need H1B.
- weaksauce 8mo agoyou see the reason h1b is so popular with the c-suite in a lot of cases is that you get absolute loyalty to a company that holds all the power of your being allowed to stay in the us. you lose the h1b job and you have limited time to find a new valid employer to sponsor you or else you go back to your country. it's one of the reasons musk loves it for twitter.
- square_usual 8mo agoH1B transfers are easy. You aren't beholden to an employer.
- liveoneggs 8mo agoYou have 60 days to find a new job or get deported. It's a pretty strong lever.
- square_usual 8mo agoHow is that related to a transfer? If you have a job on an H1b, you can get another job and switch to it any time with a transfer.
- liveoneggs 8mo agore-read OOP, not your own jump to "transfer"
- square_usual 8mo agoMy logic is if you can transfer you don't have absolute loyalty. Your logic is... what exactly?
- SilverElfin 8mo agoIt is unbelievable the kind of misinformation that is spread about immigrants. Thanks for pointing that out
- _f78k 8mo ago> it seems to me there are enough american job seekers in CS to justify not needing H1B. Anecdotal so hold on to your salt but in my social circle here in the US natural-born US citizens vs visa-holders self-select for types of jobs. For example, if my the starting pay is < $80k most of my natural-born American friends don't bother applying. Whereas, my visa-holding friends routinely go well below $50k when searching for jobs or "2 year internships". So, when a company posts a certain type of a job they have a certain demographic in mind already. Not saying my US friends are uppity as much as visa holders are desperate.
- x0x0 8mo ago> as visa holders are desperate That is the point of most of these programs. If we (as a country) do h1b, those people should be on an automatic path to a green card.
- profdevloper 8mo agoWhy? They are obviously being weaponized to suppress wages for native Americans in an environment where tech leaders were saying "learn to code". I think the H1B needs to be cancelled and companies should incur financial penalties for using foreign labor to undercut American workers.
- BobaFloutist 8mo ago>native Americans I know you don't mean indigenous people, so what's the cutoff? Is it birthright citizenship? But then what about naturalized citizens? And if they count, thennare they screwing over "natives" up and until their swearing in when they instantly join the screwed, or is it more of a continuous spectrum of screwer/screwed? Or, in the other direction, does your family need to have been here a couple of generations for you to count?
- fragmede 8mo agoHowever many generations it takes for your skin tone to be white. See also: the President's wife.
- dheera 8mo ago> there are enough american job seekers in CS To be blunt: Not enough qualified ones. Look at the names of all the top AI papers of the past 3 years, not too many are American. When you get bullied in American public schools for being a "nerd" and liking science and math, your country doesn't exactly produce a lot of state-of-the-art STEM professionals. You get a small handful of exceptional people who overcame the adversity but that's it. The top 0.1% are perhaps mostly American-educated. The top 10% on the other hand are mostly not American. And you need the top 10% to code for the top 0.1%.
- cultofmetatron 8mo ago> When you get bullied in American public schools for being a "nerd" and liking science and math, your country doesn't exactly produce a lot of state-of-the-art STEM professionals. Its worse than that. when I lived in america, I found that being a software engineer was a dealbreaker when it came to dating most women. Imagine my surprise going to other countries and finding that my chosen profession made me high value proposition to most women.
- rune-dev 8mo agoAs an American this does not match my experience at all. What profession were those women looking for?
- johntarter 8mo agoBartenders, starving artists, musicians, and athletes?
- linksnapzz 8mo agoThose are the ones they fool around with; not the ones they marry.
- irishcoffee 8mo ago
- pdntspa 8mo agobUt wE wAnT tHe BeSt oF tHe BeSt!!!11