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Hopefully, in coming years, we will see more practically designed EVs that are more affordable. A practical car doesn't need neck-snapping acceleration, every

Hopefully, in coming years, we will see more practically designed EVs that are more affordable. A practical car doesn't need neck-snapping acceleration, every bell-and-whistle and room for a family of six with a dog. I'd like to believe that as batteries cost drop, the incentive to justify the extra cost will drop. Then we can get back to "just basic transportation" rather than a luxury product for the rich. While $31k isn't exactly cheap, the base new Leaf is heading the right direction.

dangus 8mo ago
At this point most EVs are exactly the way you describe and Tesla is an outlier. Look at Hyundai/Kia’s lineup. The Niro, EV6, and EV9 are essentially the three major segments of American car preferences. They aren’t particularly fast or exotic. They don’t really cost a whole lot more to buy/own than alternatives in the same segment especially on a monthly payment or buying one used, they just aren’t chosen at a high rate compared to gas powered alternatives. Tesla just used the neck-snapping acceleration to market EVs by cool factor rather than by economics. And that was a smart idea to get people in showrooms.
- conception 8mo ago
  I always drive my EV6 in eco mode because normal and sport feel dangerously fast. I think my 0-60 in sport mode is 4 seconds? The Niro however is spot on.
  - happyopossum 8mo ago
    The only ev6 that will do 0-60 that fast is the GT, the standard one is in the 6-7s range which is the same as a typical gas crossover.
    - conception 8mo ago
      Nah the awd does it in 5- https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model/9c43348 https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model/9c43348
    - _ea1k 8mo ago
      Cheap crossovers and compact SUVs tend to be >8s. In practice even that makes them sound faster than they are, as they require an aggressive launch and consistent high RPMs to get there. The 6-7s EVs feel much faster than that!
boplicity 8mo ago
Affordable EVs exist and are widely available in some countries. They're effectively banned in North America, though.
- zdragnar 8mo ago
  This has always been true of gas vehicles as well. They're banned for not having some safety feature or otherwise complying with FMVSS or some other regularity body, not because they are "affordable".
  - snakeboy 8mo ago
    I think it's more likely that Chinese EVs are banned in the US because they would absolutely obliterate the domestic car manufacturing industry.
    - SR2Z 8mo ago
      To be fair, a big part of why is the magnitude of subsidies China has given its domestic EV suppliers.
      - bryanlarsen 8mo ago
        It's less than the $7500 per car the US gave until very recently.
        SR2Z 8mo ago
        The US gave $7500 per car sold in the US to any manufacturer, with the "Buy American" restriction added only in the last two years of the policy. I'm also curious to hear your source for the subsidies - from what I can see China has spent anywhere from 3x to 5x propping up the domestic EV industry as the US has over the last 15 years. The US had Tesla which almost went bankrupt multiple times despite the subsidies; China has a dozen EV manufacturers, half of whom are on life support now that the government is withdrawing subsidies.
tbrownaw 8mo ago
> doesn't need neck-snapping acceleration I thought this was mostly* a side-effect of electric motors inherently behaving differently than combustion motors. * Not that it can't be deliberately turned off since everything goes through a computer.
- margalabargala 8mo ago
  There are two different factors here. One, as you noted, is that electric motors can apply full torque from a stop, increasing perceived acceleration. The other, and more impactful, is that electric motor power scales with cost much more cheaply than gas motors, so vehicles will oversize their electric motors.
  - bryanlarsen 8mo ago
    There's a third factor. Ev's need to support fast charging. So they need to do support super high voltages and currents. That's much of the expense of a powerful EV. A powerful motor is relatively inexpensive in comparison. If you can charge a car in 20 minutes, the battery and some other circuitry can support discharging in 20 minutes, which is an insane power level.
    - margalabargala 8mo ago
      That's not exactly true. There is some shared wiring between the DC fast charger and the motors, but not so much that the powerful motors are "free". The wires that run between the motors and the battery are long. I think the larger third factor is regenerative braking. That uses the exact same circuitry as powering the motors, and if you want to be able to brake quickly without the brake pads, that's a lot of kW to be absorbed. Any way you cut it, I agree, it's an insane power level.
      - bryanlarsen 8mo ago
        There's a reason I emphasized the battery in my comment. :)
deleted 8mo ago
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dangus 8mo ago

At this point most EVs are exactly the way you describe and Tesla is an outlier. Look at Hyundai/Kia’s lineup. The Niro, EV6, and EV9 are essentially the three major segments of American car preferences. They aren’t particularly fast or exotic. They don’t really cost a whole lot more to buy/own than alternatives in the same segment especially on a monthly payment or buying one used, they just aren’t chosen at a high rate compared to gas powered alternatives. Tesla just used the neck-snapping acceleration to market EVs by cool factor rather than by economics. And that was a smart idea to get people in showrooms.

conception 8mo ago
I always drive my EV6 in eco mode because normal and sport feel dangerously fast. I think my 0-60 in sport mode is 4 seconds? The Niro however is spot on.
- happyopossum 8mo ago
  The only ev6 that will do 0-60 that fast is the GT, the standard one is in the 6-7s range which is the same as a typical gas crossover.
  - conception 8mo ago
    Nah the awd does it in 5- https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model/9c43348 https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model/9c43348
  - _ea1k 8mo ago
    Cheap crossovers and compact SUVs tend to be >8s. In practice even that makes them sound faster than they are, as they require an aggressive launch and consistent high RPMs to get there. The 6-7s EVs feel much faster than that!

boplicity 8mo ago

Affordable EVs exist and are widely available in some countries. They're effectively banned in North America, though.

zdragnar 8mo ago
This has always been true of gas vehicles as well. They're banned for not having some safety feature or otherwise complying with FMVSS or some other regularity body, not because they are "affordable".
- snakeboy 8mo ago
  I think it's more likely that Chinese EVs are banned in the US because they would absolutely obliterate the domestic car manufacturing industry.
  - SR2Z 8mo ago
    To be fair, a big part of why is the magnitude of subsidies China has given its domestic EV suppliers.
    - bryanlarsen 8mo ago
      It's less than the $7500 per car the US gave until very recently.
      - SR2Z 8mo ago
        The US gave $7500 per car sold in the US to any manufacturer, with the "Buy American" restriction added only in the last two years of the policy. I'm also curious to hear your source for the subsidies - from what I can see China has spent anywhere from 3x to 5x propping up the domestic EV industry as the US has over the last 15 years. The US had Tesla which almost went bankrupt multiple times despite the subsidies; China has a dozen EV manufacturers, half of whom are on life support now that the government is withdrawing subsidies.

tbrownaw 8mo ago

> doesn't need neck-snapping acceleration I thought this was mostly* a side-effect of electric motors inherently behaving differently than combustion motors. * Not that it can't be deliberately turned off since everything goes through a computer.

margalabargala 8mo ago
There are two different factors here. One, as you noted, is that electric motors can apply full torque from a stop, increasing perceived acceleration. The other, and more impactful, is that electric motor power scales with cost much more cheaply than gas motors, so vehicles will oversize their electric motors.
- bryanlarsen 8mo ago
  There's a third factor. Ev's need to support fast charging. So they need to do support super high voltages and currents. That's much of the expense of a powerful EV. A powerful motor is relatively inexpensive in comparison. If you can charge a car in 20 minutes, the battery and some other circuitry can support discharging in 20 minutes, which is an insane power level.
  - margalabargala 8mo ago
    That's not exactly true. There is some shared wiring between the DC fast charger and the motors, but not so much that the powerful motors are "free". The wires that run between the motors and the battery are long. I think the larger third factor is regenerative braking. That uses the exact same circuitry as powering the motors, and if you want to be able to brake quickly without the brake pads, that's a lot of kW to be absorbed. Any way you cut it, I agree, it's an insane power level.
    - bryanlarsen 8mo ago
      There's a reason I emphasized the battery in my comment. :)

deleted 8mo ago

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