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The article's Karim Khan example pretty deeply undercuts the thesis. Losing access to your bank account is the actual coercive power. Losing a Microsoft email i

The article's Karim Khan example pretty deeply undercuts the thesis. Losing access to your bank account is the actual coercive power. Losing a Microsoft email is an inconvenience in comparison. The real 'military bases' are banks.

jsiepkes 8mo ago
There are plenty banks owned and operated within the EU. One bank folded for US pressure but when push comes to shove the EU can force banks in the EU to uphold EU rules and regulations. That's not the case for digital infrastructure like Google Workspace, Google cloud, Office 365, AWS, etc.
- wickedsight 8mo ago
  > when push comes to shove the EU can force banks in the EU to uphold EU rules and regulations. This made me realize that many people who are extremely critical of the power the EU has, have no idea how much that power is often protecting them. This is not a dismissal of the fact that it's absolutely critical to stay vigilant about how that power is used. But it's quite clear that without that power, the US would've abused theirs way more within Europe.
- phi0 8mo ago
  When the US sanctioned Hong Kong’s Chief Executive in 2020, because of a law allowing extradition to China, no single bank was letting her open an account, including Chinese ones. She was receiving her salary fully in cash. The EU compelling banks to do business despite US sanctions seems pretty unlikely even if relations continue to degrade.
- tomjen3 8mo ago
  AWS, etc has datacenters in the EU. Microsoft relies on the EUs courts to recognise their property rights.
a_humean 8mo ago
If your business has everything on GCP/AWS/Azure (which is very common) and the Americans choose to weaponinse US tech against your country or business, then unless you have non-US backups you are probably dead and all of your employees unemployed. If you are a state, all of your services and functions are probably dead and you have to rebuild from nothing. That is certainly true of my company and there are some mutterings starting where I am internally about worst case disaster recovery if suddenly one of these suppliers just disapeared. In this new world you cannot trust that this will not happen. As a European relying on the Americans is honestly probably little better than relying on the Russians and probably on par with relying on the Chinese in terms of risk profile. Note we are actually for all intents and purposes at war with Russia. The amount of leverage the Americans have over Europe is insane, and every captial should be trying to mitgate that risk asap.
- formerly_proven 8mo ago
  European companies largely do not recognize this as a risk because they consider B2B contracts with Microsoft or AWS essentially iron-clad.
  - zwaps 8mo ago
    This is because Europeans can not listen. Microsoft executives under oath said that they will not be able to honor those contracts if there is pressure from the US administration. We should know this, but we keep forgetting: laws, contracts, courts etc always bow before political and military might. In peacetime, we delude ourselves into thinking it aint so. The situation is now clear as day. What op stated is 100 percent correct. The US will have successfully invaded an EU country by 2027. They will, if it comes to this, immediately and successfully weaponize all three hyperscalers. It is abundantly clear where thinks are going. If any country, organization or company is not prepared for this by mid 2026, they are blind and deaf
    - surgical_fire 8mo ago
      You are correct. In Europe, governments and businesses should treat the US as a hostile foreign country, and relying on anything from there is a massive risk. The only thing is that weaponizing the hyperscalers would also be disastrous for the hyperscalers. They would be liable to lose their assets in Europe, access to European markets, etc and so on. Which would as a consequence cause a tangible harm to the US economy itself. Not that in Europe we should rely on it for anything. Any business is wise to move away from any sort of dependency that is subject to US pressure. Governments in particular should consider it a matter of life and death.
Qwertious 8mo ago
>Losing a Microsoft email is an inconvenience in comparison. Losing access to data is potentially worse than losing access to your bank account. I doubt Microsoft will let you grab a copy of all your emails after they block/ban you.
epolanski 8mo ago
You may have tied your services, e.g. your digital bank account to your email. This is a very major inconvenience.

jsiepkes 8mo ago

There are plenty banks owned and operated within the EU. One bank folded for US pressure but when push comes to shove the EU can force banks in the EU to uphold EU rules and regulations. That's not the case for digital infrastructure like Google Workspace, Google cloud, Office 365, AWS, etc.

wickedsight 8mo ago
> when push comes to shove the EU can force banks in the EU to uphold EU rules and regulations. This made me realize that many people who are extremely critical of the power the EU has, have no idea how much that power is often protecting them. This is not a dismissal of the fact that it's absolutely critical to stay vigilant about how that power is used. But it's quite clear that without that power, the US would've abused theirs way more within Europe.
phi0 8mo ago
When the US sanctioned Hong Kong’s Chief Executive in 2020, because of a law allowing extradition to China, no single bank was letting her open an account, including Chinese ones. She was receiving her salary fully in cash. The EU compelling banks to do business despite US sanctions seems pretty unlikely even if relations continue to degrade.
tomjen3 8mo ago
AWS, etc has datacenters in the EU. Microsoft relies on the EUs courts to recognise their property rights.

a_humean 8mo ago

If your business has everything on GCP/AWS/Azure (which is very common) and the Americans choose to weaponinse US tech against your country or business, then unless you have non-US backups you are probably dead and all of your employees unemployed. If you are a state, all of your services and functions are probably dead and you have to rebuild from nothing. That is certainly true of my company and there are some mutterings starting where I am internally about worst case disaster recovery if suddenly one of these suppliers just disapeared. In this new world you cannot trust that this will not happen. As a European relying on the Americans is honestly probably little better than relying on the Russians and probably on par with relying on the Chinese in terms of risk profile. Note we are actually for all intents and purposes at war with Russia. The amount of leverage the Americans have over Europe is insane, and every captial should be trying to mitgate that risk asap.

formerly_proven 8mo ago
European companies largely do not recognize this as a risk because they consider B2B contracts with Microsoft or AWS essentially iron-clad.
- zwaps 8mo ago
  This is because Europeans can not listen. Microsoft executives under oath said that they will not be able to honor those contracts if there is pressure from the US administration. We should know this, but we keep forgetting: laws, contracts, courts etc always bow before political and military might. In peacetime, we delude ourselves into thinking it aint so. The situation is now clear as day. What op stated is 100 percent correct. The US will have successfully invaded an EU country by 2027. They will, if it comes to this, immediately and successfully weaponize all three hyperscalers. It is abundantly clear where thinks are going. If any country, organization or company is not prepared for this by mid 2026, they are blind and deaf
  - surgical_fire 8mo ago
    You are correct. In Europe, governments and businesses should treat the US as a hostile foreign country, and relying on anything from there is a massive risk. The only thing is that weaponizing the hyperscalers would also be disastrous for the hyperscalers. They would be liable to lose their assets in Europe, access to European markets, etc and so on. Which would as a consequence cause a tangible harm to the US economy itself. Not that in Europe we should rely on it for anything. Any business is wise to move away from any sort of dependency that is subject to US pressure. Governments in particular should consider it a matter of life and death.

Qwertious 8mo ago

>Losing a Microsoft email is an inconvenience in comparison. Losing access to data is potentially worse than losing access to your bank account. I doubt Microsoft will let you grab a copy of all your emails after they block/ban you.

epolanski 8mo ago

You may have tied your services, e.g. your digital bank account to your email. This is a very major inconvenience.