8 ms·
I've lived in various European cities where I was not able to vote for various reasons. Such as living hotel long-term, living in a holiday home, being semi-hom
by systemtest 8mo ago
I've lived in various European cities where I was not able to vote for various reasons. Such as living hotel long-term, living in a holiday home, being semi-homeless, sub-letting, crashing on someones couch. Seasonal workers, migrant workers or people with unstable employment are typically in this situation.
No, I was not able to vote.
- whynotminot 8mo agoI don’t want someone drifting through town in the local motel to be able to meaningfully vote to change the city I am rooted in.
- systemtest 8mo agoI'm talking about people who live in the city for years.
- moi2388 8mo agoThen find a legal place to stay and register and you can vote.
- systemtest 8mo agoA yes, why didn't I think of that! Let me just completely ignore the broken housing market, the 15+ year waiting list for social housing and scrape together... lets checks... €400k for a small appartement with a 45 minute commute to work. Do you have any clue how privileged you sound here? This is peak "have you tried not being poor" attitude.
- mjr00 8mo agoWhile I don't know about European countries, given this is an article about America it's worth pointing out that you can, in fact, vote in the US while homeless[0], using a friend/family's home, shelter, or religious center as your address. [0] https://vote.gov/guide-to-voting/unhoused https://vote.gov/guide-to-voting/unhoused
- trinix912 8mo agoIt’s like that in many countries in Europe as well.
- moi2388 8mo agoSmall apartments are not 400k, that’s average house price for family houses. Apartments are between 180-250k.
- systemtest 8mo agoNot near Amsterdam
- moi2388 8mo agoYes you can. Funda. 28 apartments in Amsterdam up to 250k. You’re literally wrong about everything you state here.
- triceratops 8mo agoWhy would someone actually "drifting through" even bother voting? The odd weirdo might but that's not going to tip any elections. Even most long term residents legally entitled to vote don't make the effort.
- whynotminot 8mo agoI don’t know man but I also know that loopholes get exploited. I think local voting should be for actual locals. To your point that so few people actually vote, it doesn’t take much to sway a local election.
- systemtest 8mo agoThese people are locals. They are living there for years sometimes decades
- whynotminot 8mo agoMost places I know of let you vote if you have that kind of persistent record of living somewhere. I don’t know your specific situation.
- systemtest 8mo agoA billionaire buying up housing can do a lot more damage than a persons drifting through town
- KellyCriterion 8mo ago...and sorry: Thats absolutely OK. I do not want strangers stopping by for 3 - 4 years to be able to influence the politics of my country? Thats totaly understandable? I would never to ask to vote at a remote place where I do not live permanently, yet where I even not a citizen?
- systemtest 8mo agoThat is OK but OP should not be complaining about people not being engaged with local politics if you are excluding a large part of the people living in the city from voting.
- leoedin 8mo agoAre a large part of the people living in a city the kind of semi-transitory-but-also-there-for-years people you describe? I'd wager that's a small proportion of almost every city. Most cities will have tourists who are visiting for a few days or weeks, and long term residents who have a permanent address there. The percentage of people living full time in hotels or airbnbs must be tiny. Perhaps in high cost of living cities there's more "hidden homeless" living on couches, but even then it's not going to be "a large part" of a city.
- systemtest 8mo agoI don't have sources but for cities like Amsterdam I wouldn't be surprised if 5% of the population isn't registered with the municipality for various reasons. But have been living there for years. Plenty of people I know would sublet empty rooms of their social housing apartment, which is highly illegal but for some people the only way to find a place to stay. But you obviously can't register because then the person subletting would be kicked out.
- milkytron 8mo agoAmong those that are registered to vote locally, most don't. Regardless of whether or not people should or shouldn't be able to vote, many of those currently with the ability to do not.
- trinix912 8mo agoWhat do you think makes someone who’s pretty much just passing by entitled to push their opinions on the locals who’ve lived there their entire lives? Especially when that person likely won’t suffer the longterm consequences of it
- systemtest 8mo agoNot talking about passing by, talking about people living there for years.
- PaulDavisThe1st 8mo agoWhat would you propose as a way to differentiate the two?
- systemtest 8mo agoMake it so people who live there can vote
- PaulDavisThe1st 8mo agoHow do you propose to establish "I live here" ?
- KptMarchewa 8mo agoOk. That's by design.
- systemtest 8mo agoIt's by design that only people with stable housing can vote? I bet you loved pre-1965 America.
- zdragnar 8mo agoYes, voting requires some form of residency. That's a pretty basic tenant of any stable representative government. Anything less becomes extremely easy to game.
- systemtest 8mo agoThere people have residency, they just don't live in a stable form of housing that allows them to register as living in the city. But some of them have lived in the city for years.
- moi2388 8mo agoNo, but it should be. I saw your other comment with regards to the Netherlands. If that’s where you’re located, you only need to have a stable location once. Then you can register. Another person can’t unregister you from there, so you can vote even if you then move to a hotel. Only question remains is how you want to deal with mail, but there are workarounds for that.
- systemtest 8mo agoIn The Netherlands it is illegal to be register at an address you don't live at.
- moi2388 8mo agoNot true. Only when you move to a new municipality, or are out of the country for more than 8 months. Max fine is 325€. You can also go to city hall and give a temporary address. Sounds like you just don’t know Dutch law and options at all tbh.
- jandrese 8mo agoI get the sentiment about "why would I let people who aren't going to stay long term decide how the city is run?" but in the end it creates a city that is indifferent or even hostile to people in that situation. It ends up disenfranchising a population that will always be there, even if the people who make up that population is constantly changing.
- systemtest 8mo agoThank you. I know people who have lived in Amsterdam for over five years but can't vote for local politics because of their legal status or because they are illegally subletting due to the shitty housing market in The Netherlands. Don't complain about people not being engaged with local politics if you don't allow them to vote.
- trinix912 8mo agoThe ones who will “always be there” can get their papers for permanent residence done and vote. If they don’t want to (or can’t since they don’t have the legal grounds to even stay there for longer), then they shouldn’t have a say on decisions that can permanently change things about the place.
- systemtest 8mo agoThat is only possible with stable and legal housing. Not everyone is privileged to be in that situation, especially not with the housing market in many countries. With your thinking you are creating a class of subhumans where you enjoy the benefits of their labour but you are not allowing them to vote. Like African Americans in the US not that long ago.
- pessimizer 8mo agoNo, it's actually nothing like us. It's also annoying and insulting that we have to be the symbol for every victim of anything. Black Americans are not nomads. We're forced out by them.