9 ms·

One thing we know is that few of the people debating this have actually read Plato's Symposium A thing you can right now do is read it (1-2 hours): https://www

by A_Duck 8mo ago

One thing we know is that few of the people debating this have actually read Plato's Symposium A thing you can right now do is read it (1-2 hours): https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1600/1600-h/1600-h.htm#link2H_4_0002 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1600/1600-h/1600-h.htm#link2... Or just the two sections in question: Aristophanes’ myth of split humans (7 minutes): https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/eros/platos-other-half https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/eros/platos-other-half Diotima’s ladder of love (20 minutes) https://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/103/jowett_symp_A.htm https://people.wku.edu/jan.garrett/103/jowett_symp_A.htm

aestetix 8mo ago
Don't forget the extremely loaded context surrounding Alcibiades.
- nerdsniper 8mo ago
  I have no idea what this context is.
  - cafard 8mo ago
    I haven't looked, but I imagine that Wikipedia gives a reasonable account of Alcibiades.
  - red-iron-pine 8mo ago
    presumably it has to do with the gay cuz even alluding to it makes texans uncomfortable. doth protest too much i think
codyb 8mo ago
I've heard an uptick in derogatory terms being thrown around recently and while unsurprising, it sure is sad. Recent events... - Went to a concert, an underage kid with a fake ID couldn't get a beer, turned to me and goes "Isn't this guy a f----" Uh... well, he may be making your night less enjoyable, but I don't see why gay people have to catch strays cause of it... "I don't think I'd call anyone that" was my response, and "it's okay to be gay" was a follow up - My boss said something was retarded. I'm a bit wishy washy on the r-word myself as, while I'm friends with people with Down Syndrome and other maladies, it never occurred to me to relate the word to them (especially since they're generally really very nice people) It's similar to how I never associated the word spaz with... I dunno what it is... multiple sclerosis or whatever, apparently that's a very common association in the UK, but I'd never heard of it (the association) But now I've stopped using it entirely, although in this case I did not correct my boss (who I respect as a person and enjoy working for very much) - One of my other friends called something "gay" recently "Don't call things gay bro" was my response. As my mom explained to me in sixth grade "even though you don't really even have an idea what it means to be gay, when you say that negative things are gay, you're implying that being gay is negative, but gay people just are themselves and don't deserve that" I became the "don't say gay kid" at school after that and I'm damned proud of it All these losers trying to turn back the times to put gay people back in the closet give me "peaked in middle school" vibes, and it's sad to see that it's also slowly becoming normalized with people who I don't even think have that inclination or care to say prejudiced shit again too
- mrec 8mo ago
  > I never associated the word spaz with... I dunno what it is... multiple sclerosis or whatever Usually cerebral palsy, I think, or (less commonly) epilepsy. I'm not sure it's still that common in the UK; I don't think I've heard it in the wild since the 80s [1], though some of that may just reflect the people I talk to as I get older. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon#Blue_Peter_and_cultural_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon#Blue_Peter_and_cul...
  - codyb 8mo ago
    Yea that's it... definitely wasn't on our minds when we were 14 in middle school in America lol
- Dig1t 8mo ago
  Language police are extremely uncool; going around telling people which words they are allowed to use mostly just hurts your own cause. It has the exact same effect that an old Christian woman scolding kids not to use swear words has. Eventually people realize that your magic words give them power and it becomes cool and useful to start using them in the exact opposite way you want them to. The only way for you to achieve the goal of making sure nobody’s feelings are hurt by words is to take away the power of the words. You only give the words MORE power by reacting to them.
  - codyb 8mo ago
    Huge eyeroll. Who said anything about scolding anyone lol. I responded very calmly. I'm sorry, but you'll never win me over that the world be a better place if only we could bring back overtly prejudiced speech. Actions have consequences. You can say whatever the hell you want, but doesn't mean you deserve respect, or not to be corrected, or not to face the consequences of saying overtly bigoted words. The fact is... calling negative things gay implies being gay is bad, and therefore we should stop calling negative things gay if we want to support all the good people in the LGBTQ community.
    - 8mo ago
allturtles 8mo ago
True, but I think it's rather beside the point. Administrators shouldn't be censoring materials from professors' syllabi.
- watwut 8mo ago
  Nah that is fine. The issue is only when professor suspect of being liberal changes assigned reading in any way. That is the only possible big issue /s
- jtbayly 8mo ago
  Core curriculum is always controlled by the university. The professor can sometimes make requests and get them approved.
  - stvltvs 8mo ago
    At the university level, this is patently false. Professors have wide latitude to pick the texts for their classes except in lower division classes that might be taught by a TA.
    - TheNewsIsHere 8mo ago
      This is more nuanced than “controlled by the administration or not”. Universities that have accreditation (typically regional accreditation for nonprofit and private research universities) have to meet certain standards for certain curriculum design. Within those requirements there is wide latitude.
      - HoJojoMojo 8mo ago
        That doesn't seem more nuanced between controlled by administrators or not.. An accreditation may have a minimum number of hours for Greek Classics and could expect the topic of Classical Greek Cultural norms to be compared/contrasted with modernity or it may not be mandatory to cover. That's a bit short of an accreditation telling an administration to ensure the topic is never covered or to police every unlisted topic a professor may cover.
pvillano 8mo ago
Imagine fearing the consequences of "people are not gay by choice, but because they are each halves of a eight limbed cartwheeling sphere". Young minds cannot handle such dangerous rhetoric

by A_Duck 8mo ago

aestetix 8mo ago

Don't forget the extremely loaded context surrounding Alcibiades.

nerdsniper 8mo ago
I have no idea what this context is.
- cafard 8mo ago
  I haven't looked, but I imagine that Wikipedia gives a reasonable account of Alcibiades.
- red-iron-pine 8mo ago
  presumably it has to do with the gay cuz even alluding to it makes texans uncomfortable. doth protest too much i think

codyb 8mo ago

I've heard an uptick in derogatory terms being thrown around recently and while unsurprising, it sure is sad. Recent events... - Went to a concert, an underage kid with a fake ID couldn't get a beer, turned to me and goes "Isn't this guy a f----" Uh... well, he may be making your night less enjoyable, but I don't see why gay people have to catch strays cause of it... "I don't think I'd call anyone that" was my response, and "it's okay to be gay" was a follow up - My boss said something was retarded. I'm a bit wishy washy on the r-word myself as, while I'm friends with people with Down Syndrome and other maladies, it never occurred to me to relate the word to them (especially since they're generally really very nice people) It's similar to how I never associated the word spaz with... I dunno what it is... multiple sclerosis or whatever, apparently that's a very common association in the UK, but I'd never heard of it (the association) But now I've stopped using it entirely, although in this case I did not correct my boss (who I respect as a person and enjoy working for very much) - One of my other friends called something "gay" recently "Don't call things gay bro" was my response. As my mom explained to me in sixth grade "even though you don't really even have an idea what it means to be gay, when you say that negative things are gay, you're implying that being gay is negative, but gay people just are themselves and don't deserve that" I became the "don't say gay kid" at school after that and I'm damned proud of it All these losers trying to turn back the times to put gay people back in the closet give me "peaked in middle school" vibes, and it's sad to see that it's also slowly becoming normalized with people who I don't even think have that inclination or care to say prejudiced shit again too

mrec 8mo ago
> I never associated the word spaz with... I dunno what it is... multiple sclerosis or whatever Usually cerebral palsy, I think, or (less commonly) epilepsy. I'm not sure it's still that common in the UK; I don't think I've heard it in the wild since the 80s [1], though some of that may just reflect the people I talk to as I get older. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon#Blue_Peter_and_cultural_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon#Blue_Peter_and_cul...
- codyb 8mo ago
  Yea that's it... definitely wasn't on our minds when we were 14 in middle school in America lol
Dig1t 8mo ago
Language police are extremely uncool; going around telling people which words they are allowed to use mostly just hurts your own cause. It has the exact same effect that an old Christian woman scolding kids not to use swear words has. Eventually people realize that your magic words give them power and it becomes cool and useful to start using them in the exact opposite way you want them to. The only way for you to achieve the goal of making sure nobody’s feelings are hurt by words is to take away the power of the words. You only give the words MORE power by reacting to them.
- codyb 8mo ago
  Huge eyeroll. Who said anything about scolding anyone lol. I responded very calmly. I'm sorry, but you'll never win me over that the world be a better place if only we could bring back overtly prejudiced speech. Actions have consequences. You can say whatever the hell you want, but doesn't mean you deserve respect, or not to be corrected, or not to face the consequences of saying overtly bigoted words. The fact is... calling negative things gay implies being gay is bad, and therefore we should stop calling negative things gay if we want to support all the good people in the LGBTQ community.
  - 8mo ago

allturtles 8mo ago

True, but I think it's rather beside the point. Administrators shouldn't be censoring materials from professors' syllabi.

watwut 8mo ago
Nah that is fine. The issue is only when professor suspect of being liberal changes assigned reading in any way. That is the only possible big issue /s
jtbayly 8mo ago
Core curriculum is always controlled by the university. The professor can sometimes make requests and get them approved.
- stvltvs 8mo ago
  At the university level, this is patently false. Professors have wide latitude to pick the texts for their classes except in lower division classes that might be taught by a TA.
  - TheNewsIsHere 8mo ago
    This is more nuanced than “controlled by the administration or not”. Universities that have accreditation (typically regional accreditation for nonprofit and private research universities) have to meet certain standards for certain curriculum design. Within those requirements there is wide latitude.
    - HoJojoMojo 8mo ago
      That doesn't seem more nuanced between controlled by administrators or not.. An accreditation may have a minimum number of hours for Greek Classics and could expect the topic of Classical Greek Cultural norms to be compared/contrasted with modernity or it may not be mandatory to cover. That's a bit short of an accreditation telling an administration to ensure the topic is never covered or to police every unlisted topic a professor may cover.

pvillano 8mo ago

Imagine fearing the consequences of "people are not gay by choice, but because they are each halves of a eight limbed cartwheeling sphere". Young minds cannot handle such dangerous rhetoric