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The most frustrating part is when Apple dropped the jack we laughed at the "courage" bit, Apple's given reasons where already seen as bullshit, Samsung had thei

The most frustrating part is when Apple dropped the jack we laughed at the "courage" bit, Apple's given reasons where already seen as bullshit, Samsung had their finger pointing moment. And it just went on, Apple weathered the critics, the other makers also dropped it, and at some point there was just nowhere to go for anyone still wanted a 3.5 jack with a decent phone.

simpaticoder 9mo ago
I agree the loss of the 3.5mm jack is a short-sighted and poor decision. There is at least one mitigation, which is the ability to recover the jack through a USB-C DAC. Apple sells them for USD10. I have several, in the car and in my backpack. It's not a good solution though. In particular I find the USB-C port gets worn out pretty quickly. Its also easy to lose the dongle and of course it's more complicated to setup. (I'm not sure how to articulate the "it's more complicated" part. Adding the dongle elevates the action of "plug in headphones" from something you can do without attention to something that requires attention, and I don't like that.)
- hamburglar 9mo ago
  Also, seemingly without exception, the dongle itself is fragile and ends up causing constant crackling after a while.
- gopher_space 9mo ago
  Get a set of wired headphones without a built-in cord. Then you can use any USB-C to 3.5 male cord like normal.
  - simpaticoder 9mo ago
    You can't use a passive cable for this - there may be a USB-to-audio standard, but it's not widely implemented anymore. You need a DAC.
    - gopher_space 9mo ago
      Thanks! You probably saved me $15 a year from now :)
- kalleboo 9mo ago
  Can't you just leave a dongle on any wired headphones you have? Assuming you only use them with your phone and computer and don't have a CD player or something.
  - makeitdouble 9mo ago
    > Assuming you only use them with your phone This is really where it hits. Every other device has a proper jack, so the dongle needs to be kept somewhere every other time.
    - kalleboo 9mo ago
      I guess that's my question, what other devices are people using? I'm just curious where people need to remove the dongle because maybe I have bad imagination but not much comes to mind. I listen to music on earbuds on my phone on the go, a laptop at a cafe, and on my computer at my desk - all these have USB-C. Even modern DAPs like Sony Walkman have USB-C as they are typically based on Android. That leaves all the "legacy" devices that only a small minority use - home hi-fi stacks, vinyl record players, iPods, CD players, minidisc players?
ricardobeat 9mo ago
The jacks are a physical impediment for slim phones. An adapter costs $3 if you still want it. It’s not a bad trade.
- p0w3n3d 9mo ago
  3$ adapter will have low quality DAC
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    But the $9 Apple one is very high quality: https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/ https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/
  - astrange 9mo ago
    The DAC in Apple's $10 adapter is higher quality than most "audiophile" DACs because Apple has a larger R&D budget and is better at manufacturing than the entire audiophile industry combined. Same for Google's, though it's slightly less good iirc. They aren't perfect - the maximum volume and impedance are pretty low so you do need an amp to electrically drive insensitive headphones.
    - brewmarche 9mo ago
      There’s a difference between the European version of the Apple dongle and other regions. The European version maxes out at 0.5 Vrms instead of 1 Vrms.
    - mrheosuper 9mo ago
      nah, they are on par with other $10 chinese DAC, which is quite achievement for Apple tbh. I guess Apple decided to not apply "Apple tax" to those dongle.
  - tialaramex 9mo ago
    DACs are very cheap. The BOM gap between "This DAC barely works" and "It won't sound any better if we spend more" for a headphone DAC is probably a dollar or so. This isn't some 1980s analogue technology where we need to spring for the best materials to get good results, and the components needed are all readily available from many suppliers today.
wat10000 9mo ago
They’re just responding to the market. The vast majority of people don’t care about this. Personally, I’d rather have two minutes more battery life than a headphone jack. It’s annoying to have non-mainstream preferences in an area where economies of scale mean every product needs to have mass market appeal. But you might as well complain about the tide coming in.
- Rygian 9mo ago
  Do you have a source that supports your claim, that the market asked for 3.5 mm jacks to go away?
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    That's not what the parent commenter said. They said consumers don't care, not that they asked for the jacks to go away. You're misrepresenting. But in terms of consumers not caring, yes: https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-1020924/ https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-... It's objectively not a popular feature or something the vast majority of consumers are looking for. Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Again, it's not that the market asked for the jacks to go away, they just don't care. And when there's something that consumers don't care about, companies tend to remove it. The jack takes up volume. Not huge, but on phones every cubic millimeter counts. And it's one more thing that can break. And if you really want a jack, there's a $9 adapter you can just keep attached to your headphones. So everyone wins.
    - normie3000 9mo ago
      > Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Thanks for this summary. I feel sad to be in a minority who prefer wired headphones. For me it's because all their failures you listed are issues I can understand and mitigate. But when bluetooth goes wrong, what do I do? Usually: 1. turn off both devices and then turn them back on again 2. try to reconnect 3. if step 2 failed, give up and try again another day I don't learn anything. I feel infantilised and helpless.
mschuster91 9mo ago
Most ADCs in consumer products were crap anyway (with the exception of Apple, who for a long time used the widely beloved Wolfson DACs). If you want actual quality... be ready to shell out a bit of money [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.de/Qudelix-Bluetooth-Adaptive-unsymmetrisch-symmetrischer/dp/B088F7C976 https://www.amazon.de/Qudelix-Bluetooth-Adaptive-unsymmetris...

simpaticoder 9mo ago

I agree the loss of the 3.5mm jack is a short-sighted and poor decision. There is at least one mitigation, which is the ability to recover the jack through a USB-C DAC. Apple sells them for USD10. I have several, in the car and in my backpack. It's not a good solution though. In particular I find the USB-C port gets worn out pretty quickly. Its also easy to lose the dongle and of course it's more complicated to setup. (I'm not sure how to articulate the "it's more complicated" part. Adding the dongle elevates the action of "plug in headphones" from something you can do without attention to something that requires attention, and I don't like that.)

hamburglar 9mo ago
Also, seemingly without exception, the dongle itself is fragile and ends up causing constant crackling after a while.
gopher_space 9mo ago
Get a set of wired headphones without a built-in cord. Then you can use any USB-C to 3.5 male cord like normal.
- simpaticoder 9mo ago
  You can't use a passive cable for this - there may be a USB-to-audio standard, but it's not widely implemented anymore. You need a DAC.
  - gopher_space 9mo ago
    Thanks! You probably saved me $15 a year from now :)
kalleboo 9mo ago
Can't you just leave a dongle on any wired headphones you have? Assuming you only use them with your phone and computer and don't have a CD player or something.
- makeitdouble 9mo ago
  > Assuming you only use them with your phone This is really where it hits. Every other device has a proper jack, so the dongle needs to be kept somewhere every other time.
  - kalleboo 9mo ago
    I guess that's my question, what other devices are people using? I'm just curious where people need to remove the dongle because maybe I have bad imagination but not much comes to mind. I listen to music on earbuds on my phone on the go, a laptop at a cafe, and on my computer at my desk - all these have USB-C. Even modern DAPs like Sony Walkman have USB-C as they are typically based on Android. That leaves all the "legacy" devices that only a small minority use - home hi-fi stacks, vinyl record players, iPods, CD players, minidisc players?

ricardobeat 9mo ago

The jacks are a physical impediment for slim phones. An adapter costs $3 if you still want it. It’s not a bad trade.

p0w3n3d 9mo ago
3$ adapter will have low quality DAC
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  But the $9 Apple one is very high quality: https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/ https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/
- astrange 9mo ago
  The DAC in Apple's $10 adapter is higher quality than most "audiophile" DACs because Apple has a larger R&D budget and is better at manufacturing than the entire audiophile industry combined. Same for Google's, though it's slightly less good iirc. They aren't perfect - the maximum volume and impedance are pretty low so you do need an amp to electrically drive insensitive headphones.
  - brewmarche 9mo ago
    There’s a difference between the European version of the Apple dongle and other regions. The European version maxes out at 0.5 Vrms instead of 1 Vrms.
  - mrheosuper 9mo ago
    nah, they are on par with other $10 chinese DAC, which is quite achievement for Apple tbh. I guess Apple decided to not apply "Apple tax" to those dongle.
- tialaramex 9mo ago
  DACs are very cheap. The BOM gap between "This DAC barely works" and "It won't sound any better if we spend more" for a headphone DAC is probably a dollar or so. This isn't some 1980s analogue technology where we need to spring for the best materials to get good results, and the components needed are all readily available from many suppliers today.

wat10000 9mo ago

They’re just responding to the market. The vast majority of people don’t care about this. Personally, I’d rather have two minutes more battery life than a headphone jack. It’s annoying to have non-mainstream preferences in an area where economies of scale mean every product needs to have mass market appeal. But you might as well complain about the tide coming in.

Rygian 9mo ago
Do you have a source that supports your claim, that the market asked for 3.5 mm jacks to go away?
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  That's not what the parent commenter said. They said consumers don't care, not that they asked for the jacks to go away. You're misrepresenting. But in terms of consumers not caring, yes: https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-1020924/ https://www.androidauthority.com/ting-headphone-jack-survey-... It's objectively not a popular feature or something the vast majority of consumers are looking for. Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Again, it's not that the market asked for the jacks to go away, they just don't care. And when there's something that consumers don't care about, companies tend to remove it. The jack takes up volume. Not huge, but on phones every cubic millimeter counts. And it's one more thing that can break. And if you really want a jack, there's a $9 adapter you can just keep attached to your headphones. So everyone wins.
  - normie3000 9mo ago
    > Most people prefer Bluetooth because you don't need to deal with annoying wires getting tangled, ripping your earbuds out, etc. Thanks for this summary. I feel sad to be in a minority who prefer wired headphones. For me it's because all their failures you listed are issues I can understand and mitigate. But when bluetooth goes wrong, what do I do? Usually: 1. turn off both devices and then turn them back on again 2. try to reconnect 3. if step 2 failed, give up and try again another day I don't learn anything. I feel infantilised and helpless.

mschuster91 9mo ago

Most ADCs in consumer products were crap anyway (with the exception of Apple, who for a long time used the widely beloved Wolfson DACs). If you want actual quality... be ready to shell out a bit of money [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.de/Qudelix-Bluetooth-Adaptive-unsymmetrisch-symmetrischer/dp/B088F7C976 https://www.amazon.de/Qudelix-Bluetooth-Adaptive-unsymmetris...