6 ms·

You may find this interesting: https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/sls/orgoverview/languages https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/sls/orgoverview/languages

d_silin 9mo ago
Difficulty scale looks about right.
nfc 9mo ago
It seems like an extremely coarse classification. Category 3 contains languages with very different degrees of difficulty, while Bulgarian and Russian are both Slavic they are nothing alike in terms of difficulty since Bulgarian is the most analytic of Slavic languages (has the less inflection). That makes it extremely easy to learn compared to Russian.
- vkazanov 9mo ago
  What is also interesting is how written Russian was heavily influenced by old Bulgarian. In fact, written russian includes a lot of older written bulgarian vocabulary. This results in a weird paradox: for literate Russians it is easy enough to read written bulgarian but almost impossible to understand the spoken language.
  - RugnirViking 9mo ago
    This happens in other languages too - danish and Norwegian are almost the same written, such that most products just combine the two on the packaging. But spoken it can be very difficult to comprehend
    - vkazanov 9mo ago
      So... codified written languages are similar but real spoken ones have diverged? Is this only in the way things are pronouced or the differemce is deeper?
- optymizer 9mo ago
  I speak Russian and some Bulgarian as third/forth languages, and while I agree that Russian is more difficult, I wouldn't say Bulgarian is "extremely easy" in comparison. It's maybe ~20% easier at best.
  - cpursley 9mo ago
    I think Bulgarian is considered the easiest Slavic language in terms of grammar because it has a simplified case system similar to how English dropped its cases over time.
jandrewrogers 9mo ago
On a superficial level that seems like a roughly correct ranking in my experience. On the other hand, I picked up one of the category 3 languages pretty easily. I think some of these are more "weird" to a native English speaker than "hard" per se. The aspects that make languages difficult for a native English speaker vary quite a bit with the language. I would expect individual experiences with the languages to have high variance as a consequence.
troupo 9mo ago
As others hsve pointed out, it's a very coarse (and rather arbitrary) categorization. E.g. both Turkish and Russian are in Category 3, but Turkish is trivial compared to Russian. Turkish grammar is extremely regular, and follows easily defined rules that fit about two pages of easily digestible tables. In comparison, Russian is a separate class tought in Russian schools for four years to native Russian speakers. And you still get people who can't properly inflect numerals, for example.
- Anonyneko 9mo ago
  Not for four years, for all eleven years...
- integralid 9mo ago
  Isn't English also a separate class taught in English schools to native English speakers?
  - dfawcus 9mo ago
    Yes. All through middle and high school, so for 7 years from around 10 to 16. It did become one eventually in primary school, so probably the last 2 or 3 years there.
  - shawn_w 9mo ago
    English classes (at least at my high school) were largely about literature, less the language itself. Though I did take one elective class on grammar.
  - nephihaha 9mo ago
    Not always well. One of the problems is that English speakers do not get taught the proper parts of speech. I learnt far more about English from learning other languages than I ever did in English class. We would get told off for bad spelling and grammar, but very little on the actual mechanics.
- orthoxerox 9mo ago
  Turkish has a completely different vocabulary (loanwords aside) and a completely different grammar. "I want to swim" in Russian is "ja hoću plavatj", "I" + "want" + "to swim". The only difficulties are the conjugation of "want" and the aspect of "to swim". In Turkish it's "yüzmek istiyorum", where "-mek" is "to" and "-um" is "I". Even if the system itself is straightforward, it's still alien to a native English speaker.

d_silin 9mo ago

Difficulty scale looks about right.

nfc 9mo ago

It seems like an extremely coarse classification. Category 3 contains languages with very different degrees of difficulty, while Bulgarian and Russian are both Slavic they are nothing alike in terms of difficulty since Bulgarian is the most analytic of Slavic languages (has the less inflection). That makes it extremely easy to learn compared to Russian.

vkazanov 9mo ago
What is also interesting is how written Russian was heavily influenced by old Bulgarian. In fact, written russian includes a lot of older written bulgarian vocabulary. This results in a weird paradox: for literate Russians it is easy enough to read written bulgarian but almost impossible to understand the spoken language.
- RugnirViking 9mo ago
  This happens in other languages too - danish and Norwegian are almost the same written, such that most products just combine the two on the packaging. But spoken it can be very difficult to comprehend
  - vkazanov 9mo ago
    So... codified written languages are similar but real spoken ones have diverged? Is this only in the way things are pronouced or the differemce is deeper?
optymizer 9mo ago
I speak Russian and some Bulgarian as third/forth languages, and while I agree that Russian is more difficult, I wouldn't say Bulgarian is "extremely easy" in comparison. It's maybe ~20% easier at best.
- cpursley 9mo ago
  I think Bulgarian is considered the easiest Slavic language in terms of grammar because it has a simplified case system similar to how English dropped its cases over time.

jandrewrogers 9mo ago

On a superficial level that seems like a roughly correct ranking in my experience. On the other hand, I picked up one of the category 3 languages pretty easily. I think some of these are more "weird" to a native English speaker than "hard" per se. The aspects that make languages difficult for a native English speaker vary quite a bit with the language. I would expect individual experiences with the languages to have high variance as a consequence.

troupo 9mo ago

As others hsve pointed out, it's a very coarse (and rather arbitrary) categorization. E.g. both Turkish and Russian are in Category 3, but Turkish is trivial compared to Russian. Turkish grammar is extremely regular, and follows easily defined rules that fit about two pages of easily digestible tables. In comparison, Russian is a separate class tought in Russian schools for four years to native Russian speakers. And you still get people who can't properly inflect numerals, for example.

Anonyneko 9mo ago
Not for four years, for all eleven years...
integralid 9mo ago
Isn't English also a separate class taught in English schools to native English speakers?
- dfawcus 9mo ago
  Yes. All through middle and high school, so for 7 years from around 10 to 16. It did become one eventually in primary school, so probably the last 2 or 3 years there.
- shawn_w 9mo ago
  English classes (at least at my high school) were largely about literature, less the language itself. Though I did take one elective class on grammar.
- nephihaha 9mo ago
  Not always well. One of the problems is that English speakers do not get taught the proper parts of speech. I learnt far more about English from learning other languages than I ever did in English class. We would get told off for bad spelling and grammar, but very little on the actual mechanics.
orthoxerox 9mo ago
Turkish has a completely different vocabulary (loanwords aside) and a completely different grammar. "I want to swim" in Russian is "ja hoću plavatj", "I" + "want" + "to swim". The only difficulties are the conjugation of "want" and the aspect of "to swim". In Turkish it's "yüzmek istiyorum", where "-mek" is "to" and "-um" is "I". Even if the system itself is straightforward, it's still alien to a native English speaker.