12 ms·

Amp, Inc. – Amp is spinning out of Sourcegraph

90 points by pdubroy 10mo ago

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
tonictato 10mo ago
I’d love to know the internals here. Is equity being split? Seems like a legal minefield to split a company like this. Amp was built by Sourcegraph, so I assume all investors and employees of Sourcegraph now get equity in Amp?
- foota 9mo ago
  I have no insight, but I would assume it's a 1-1 sort of split, that is that everyone that previously had one share of sourcegraph now has one share of sourcegraph and one of amp? That seems like the least legally fraught way to do it.
  - jeeyoungk 9mo ago
    yes that is easiest; or just be a 100% owned subsidiary. (that's what say, waymo is). the good thing is that you afterwards the cap table of the subsidiary or the spunoff can evolve (ex: waymo / amp can raise money independent of the parent company).
    - Touche 9mo ago
      Why is that preferable to just pivoting?
      - SR2Z 9mo ago
        Because Sourcegraph is a viable business in its own right. Small companies find it challenging to do multiple things well, and it's normally better for them to spin off promising ideas that aren't directly part of their main product.
      - foota 9mo ago
        Presumably they wanted to continue working on sourcegraph? Or maybe they want to have something left if amp flops?
- traceroute66 9mo ago
  No insight here either, but I would guess it is a spin-off ... mostly because it is a US company and in the US spin-off's are generally tax free to both company and shareholders. Spin-off is where the parent company creates a subsidiary and distributes the shares in the subsidiary to the existing shareholders. So the shareholders end up holding shares of two companies. Share allocation is done on a pro-rata basis so each shareholder still has the same exposure they did before.
neom 9mo ago
What are the chances we see local models rendering these paid IDEs useless? I presume it will be a very long time before we see a good enough local model that can compete with their ad supported frontier models on the vast majority of machines out there (I presume most people don't have the latest and greatest)? I was watching the CEO of that Chad IDE give an interview the other day, they are doing the same thing as amp just with "brain rot" ads/games etc instead (different segment, fine), they are using that activity to produce value (ads/game usage or whatever) for another business such they can offset the costs of more expensive models. (I presume this could extend out into selling data also, but I don't know they do that today) Congrats to the amp team on all the success btw, all I hear is great things about the product, good work.
htrp 9mo ago
much easier to raise money as a frontier lab
esafak 9mo ago
You have to pay by the token, without being able to use your subscription, right? If so, is it better enough than the coding agent that the others ship with to make up for that loss? This is a crowded space.
ics 9mo ago
Is Amp the thing that supplanted Cody (which was either developed or acquired by Sourcegraph, can't remember)?
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- hud_dev 9mo ago
  Yep, it was all developed by Sourcegraph in-house.
ramraj07 9mo ago
Can folks who have compared Amp with other agents share their experience? Some of my colleagues swear this is the best agent out there.
- lvl155 9mo ago
  It was really good in early stages (this past summer). But that was before Claude Code and Codex took off big time. I would say the biggest downside of Amp is that it’s expensive. Like running Opus the whole time expensive. But they don’t have their own model so what are you really paying for? Prompts? Not so sure. Amp is for people who are not smart enough to roll their own agents. So in that case, they shouldn’t be using agentic workflow.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  To be honest, I've gave it a try a couple of times, but it's so expensive I'm having a hard time even being able to judge it fairly. The first time I spent just $5, second $10 and the third time $20, but they all went by so fast I'm worried even if I find it great, it's way too expensive, and having a number tick up/down makes me nervous or something. And I'm the type of person who has ChatGPT Pro so I'm not exactly stingy with paying for things I find useful, but there is a limit somewhere and I guess for me Amp is that.
  - benatkin 9mo ago
    It sounds like you're being temporarily stingy due to having ChatGPT Pro. Might be good to get rid of it if you think the grass might be greener outside of Codex.
    - embedding-shape 9mo ago
      No, ChatGPT Pro was an example that I'm not stingy to pay for things I find useful. I'm also paying for Gemini, Claude and other types of software to do my job, not even just coding. But even if I do, I still find Amp too expensive to be able to use for anything useful. I run every single coding prompt through Codex, Claude Code, Qwen and Gemini, compare which one gives me the best and go ahead with using that one. Maybe I go with Codex 60% of the times, Claude 20% and Qwen/Gemini the remaining 20%, not often at all either of them get enough right. I've tried integrating Amp into my workflow too, but as mentioned, too expensive. I do think the grass is currently the greenest with Codex, still.
alberth 9mo ago
Who is Amp’s competition? Because if I understand them correctly, aren’t they a wrapper around all the major LLMs (focused specially on developer use cases?
lukev 9mo ago
I do wonder what the moat is around this class of products (call it "coding agents"). My intuition is that it's not deep... the differentiating factor is "regular" (non LLM) code which assembles the LLM context and invokes the LLM in a loop. Claude/Codex have some advantage, because they can RLHF/finetune better than others. But ultimately this is about context assembly and prompting.
- sergiotapia 9mo ago
  There is no moat. It's all prompts. The only potential moat is building your own specialized models using the code your customers send your way I believe.
  - jonahbenton 9mo ago
    I think "prompts" are a much richer kind of intellectual property than they are given credit for. Will put in here a pointer to the Odd Lots recent podcast with Noetica AI- a give to get M&A/complex debt/deal terms benchmarker. Noetica CEO said they now have over 1 billion "deal terms" in their database, which is only half a dozen years old. Growing constantly. Over 1 billion different legal points on which a complex financial contract might be structured. Even more than that, the representation of terms in contracts they see can change pretty dramatically quarter to quarter. The industry learns and changes. The same thing is going to happen with all of the human language artifacts present in the agentic coding universe. Role definitions, skills, agentic loop prompts....the specific language, choice of words, sequence, etc really matters and will continue to evolve really rapidly, and there will be benchmarkers, I am sure of it, because quite a lot of orgs will consider their prompt artifacts to be IP. I have personally found that a very high precision prompt will mean a smaller model on personal hardware will outperform a lazy prompt given to a foundation model. These word calculators are very very (very) sensitive. There will be gradations of quality among those who drive them best. The best law firms are the best because they hire the best with (legal) language and are able to retain the reputation and pricing of the best. That is the moat. Same will be the case here.
    - malux85 9mo ago
brcmthrowaway 9mo ago
What model does Amp use?
- Leynos 9mo ago
  https://ampcode.com/models https://ampcode.com/models
truekonrads 9mo ago
I love AMP, it delivers great results. I like that it’s opinionated in how it should be used and for example tells me that I need to hand off context. I love that I am not welded to one model and someone smart has evaluated what’s best fit for what. It’s a bit a shame they lost Steve Yegge as their brand ambassador. A respected and practicing coder is big endorsement. To anyone on the fence - give it a go.
- riwsky 9mo ago
  Where did he go/what’s he doing now? He’s clearly still big on AI coding, given https://steve-yegge.medium.com/six-new-tips-for-better-coding-with-agents-d4e9c86e42a9 https://steve-yegge.medium.com/six-new-tips-for-better-codin...
Touche 9mo ago
So the point of this is to clean the cap table, right? Current investors aren't getting a stake in the new company?

90 points by pdubroy 10mo ago

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

I’d love to know the internals here. Is equity being split? Seems like a legal minefield to split a company like this. Amp was built by Sourcegraph, so I assume all investors and employees of Sourcegraph now get equity in Amp?

foota 9mo ago
I have no insight, but I would assume it's a 1-1 sort of split, that is that everyone that previously had one share of sourcegraph now has one share of sourcegraph and one of amp? That seems like the least legally fraught way to do it.
- jeeyoungk 9mo ago
  yes that is easiest; or just be a 100% owned subsidiary. (that's what say, waymo is). the good thing is that you afterwards the cap table of the subsidiary or the spunoff can evolve (ex: waymo / amp can raise money independent of the parent company).
  - Touche 9mo ago
    Why is that preferable to just pivoting?
    - SR2Z 9mo ago
      Because Sourcegraph is a viable business in its own right. Small companies find it challenging to do multiple things well, and it's normally better for them to spin off promising ideas that aren't directly part of their main product.
    - foota 9mo ago
      Presumably they wanted to continue working on sourcegraph? Or maybe they want to have something left if amp flops?
traceroute66 9mo ago
No insight here either, but I would guess it is a spin-off ... mostly because it is a US company and in the US spin-off's are generally tax free to both company and shareholders. Spin-off is where the parent company creates a subsidiary and distributes the shares in the subsidiary to the existing shareholders. So the shareholders end up holding shares of two companies. Share allocation is done on a pro-rata basis so each shareholder still has the same exposure they did before.

neom 9mo ago

What are the chances we see local models rendering these paid IDEs useless? I presume it will be a very long time before we see a good enough local model that can compete with their ad supported frontier models on the vast majority of machines out there (I presume most people don't have the latest and greatest)? I was watching the CEO of that Chad IDE give an interview the other day, they are doing the same thing as amp just with "brain rot" ads/games etc instead (different segment, fine), they are using that activity to produce value (ads/game usage or whatever) for another business such they can offset the costs of more expensive models. (I presume this could extend out into selling data also, but I don't know they do that today) Congrats to the amp team on all the success btw, all I hear is great things about the product, good work.

htrp 9mo ago

much easier to raise money as a frontier lab

esafak 9mo ago

You have to pay by the token, without being able to use your subscription, right? If so, is it better enough than the coding agent that the others ship with to make up for that loss? This is a crowded space.

ics 9mo ago

Is Amp the thing that supplanted Cody (which was either developed or acquired by Sourcegraph, can't remember)?

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
hud_dev 9mo ago
Yep, it was all developed by Sourcegraph in-house.

ramraj07 9mo ago

Can folks who have compared Amp with other agents share their experience? Some of my colleagues swear this is the best agent out there.

lvl155 9mo ago
It was really good in early stages (this past summer). But that was before Claude Code and Codex took off big time. I would say the biggest downside of Amp is that it’s expensive. Like running Opus the whole time expensive. But they don’t have their own model so what are you really paying for? Prompts? Not so sure. Amp is for people who are not smart enough to roll their own agents. So in that case, they shouldn’t be using agentic workflow.
embedding-shape 9mo ago
To be honest, I've gave it a try a couple of times, but it's so expensive I'm having a hard time even being able to judge it fairly. The first time I spent just $5, second $10 and the third time $20, but they all went by so fast I'm worried even if I find it great, it's way too expensive, and having a number tick up/down makes me nervous or something. And I'm the type of person who has ChatGPT Pro so I'm not exactly stingy with paying for things I find useful, but there is a limit somewhere and I guess for me Amp is that.
- benatkin 9mo ago
  It sounds like you're being temporarily stingy due to having ChatGPT Pro. Might be good to get rid of it if you think the grass might be greener outside of Codex.
  - embedding-shape 9mo ago
    No, ChatGPT Pro was an example that I'm not stingy to pay for things I find useful. I'm also paying for Gemini, Claude and other types of software to do my job, not even just coding. But even if I do, I still find Amp too expensive to be able to use for anything useful. I run every single coding prompt through Codex, Claude Code, Qwen and Gemini, compare which one gives me the best and go ahead with using that one. Maybe I go with Codex 60% of the times, Claude 20% and Qwen/Gemini the remaining 20%, not often at all either of them get enough right. I've tried integrating Amp into my workflow too, but as mentioned, too expensive. I do think the grass is currently the greenest with Codex, still.

alberth 9mo ago

Who is Amp’s competition? Because if I understand them correctly, aren’t they a wrapper around all the major LLMs (focused specially on developer use cases?

lukev 9mo ago

I do wonder what the moat is around this class of products (call it "coding agents"). My intuition is that it's not deep... the differentiating factor is "regular" (non LLM) code which assembles the LLM context and invokes the LLM in a loop. Claude/Codex have some advantage, because they can RLHF/finetune better than others. But ultimately this is about context assembly and prompting.

sergiotapia 9mo ago
There is no moat. It's all prompts. The only potential moat is building your own specialized models using the code your customers send your way I believe.
- jonahbenton 9mo ago
  I think "prompts" are a much richer kind of intellectual property than they are given credit for. Will put in here a pointer to the Odd Lots recent podcast with Noetica AI- a give to get M&A/complex debt/deal terms benchmarker. Noetica CEO said they now have over 1 billion "deal terms" in their database, which is only half a dozen years old. Growing constantly. Over 1 billion different legal points on which a complex financial contract might be structured. Even more than that, the representation of terms in contracts they see can change pretty dramatically quarter to quarter. The industry learns and changes. The same thing is going to happen with all of the human language artifacts present in the agentic coding universe. Role definitions, skills, agentic loop prompts....the specific language, choice of words, sequence, etc really matters and will continue to evolve really rapidly, and there will be benchmarkers, I am sure of it, because quite a lot of orgs will consider their prompt artifacts to be IP. I have personally found that a very high precision prompt will mean a smaller model on personal hardware will outperform a lazy prompt given to a foundation model. These word calculators are very very (very) sensitive. There will be gradations of quality among those who drive them best. The best law firms are the best because they hire the best with (legal) language and are able to retain the reputation and pricing of the best. That is the moat. Same will be the case here.
  - malux85 9mo ago

brcmthrowaway 9mo ago

What model does Amp use?

Leynos 9mo ago
https://ampcode.com/models https://ampcode.com/models

truekonrads 9mo ago

I love AMP, it delivers great results. I like that it’s opinionated in how it should be used and for example tells me that I need to hand off context. I love that I am not welded to one model and someone smart has evaluated what’s best fit for what. It’s a bit a shame they lost Steve Yegge as their brand ambassador. A respected and practicing coder is big endorsement. To anyone on the fence - give it a go.

riwsky 9mo ago
Where did he go/what’s he doing now? He’s clearly still big on AI coding, given https://steve-yegge.medium.com/six-new-tips-for-better-coding-with-agents-d4e9c86e42a9 https://steve-yegge.medium.com/six-new-tips-for-better-codin...

Touche 9mo ago

So the point of this is to clean the cap table, right? Current investors aren't getting a stake in the new company?